Supercharged 2010 GT - Page 7

HSE2 · 20-06-2009, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

I'm also wondering if the potential FPV S/C V8 owner will be satisfied in a product that merely matches the alternative offering from HSV.......a N/A clubsport. As HSE2 alluded to........it may be what FPV are aiming for......equal / similar performance. Don't know about you, but there's just something mentally and emotionally disappointing about a perceived premium S/C application being equalled by a N/A one ????

Methinks the HSV marketing machine will have a field day............

:

What equalled by displacement capacity of over one litre??? Nah. Its new world mate and its the other way round. People will be asking why the HSV is so slow and uses so much fuel compared to the 5.0. There is a real risk that the HSV engines will be seen as very much yesterday. It’s an equally valid stand point to the one you suggest.

It’s a BS argument. It won’t matter how you get there, it’s the end result that matters and in that the FPV V8 won’t be lacking.
And for clarification my comments were speaking of consumer expectation. There is no justification in expecting anything other than a GT that fights on an equal footing to that offered by its major competitor. Head down that path and expectations will be exceeded. The how it gets there is irrilevent.

GT69 · 20-06-2009, 05:12 PM

To bring another aspect into this 'modified v new', Whats the sale ratio XR8 v GT, same could be said there in regards to gaining higher performance via the cheaper buying alternative?

I think the ratio would be low, for most people a new car purchase is either 'an expensive upgrade' for them, or a 'turn over in 2/3/4 years time' thing.

Either way, people who are looking at modifying most likely aren't buying new units, this demographic will be looking more into b series FPV's rather than F series off the showroom floor.

The key to selling an updated model of anything is to make people WANT your product, an upgraded interior with more technology and certain other things will insure people WANT a new product over modifying an older model.

tex · 20-06-2009, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

it’s the end result that matters and in that the FPV V8 won’t be lacking.

And for clarification my comments were speaking of consumer expectation.

There is no justification in expecting anything other than a GT that fights on an equal footing to that offered by its major competitor. Head down that path and expectations will be exceeded. The how it gets there is irrilevent.

couldn't agree more HSE

FPV GT owners, future, past and present; do expect a product that delivers not just competitive performance with HSV, but 'in brand' halo product appeal as well.

And in B series this was lost some, not such a bad thing I suppose given the status held by F6T.

The new GT will restore order, and many that swung one way with B series ----> will swing the other.

600plus NM of torque will be sufficient to propell the Fg along, the power won't be so critical, and my guess, per F6T now, SC output will be 'understated' significantly upon release.

Either that, or, all of a sudden they will have fitted a drivetrain with a parasitic loss of only 20 kws.........

Whitey-AMG · 20-06-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

And for clarification my comments were speaking of consumer expectation. There is no justification in expecting anything other than a GT that fights on an equal footing to that offered by its major competitor.

Hmmmmmm............I think I've been hearing that for the last 6 years now..........

Here's to hoping........

Kraziman · 20-06-2009, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

Meh.........

I would never trade in the BFGT for a monumental loss to trade up to something with 40Kw more and with styling that doesn't excite me.

Keep it and buy another one! I have spent almost 10k on mine and I love the car it is now. I would never get an FG (spent too much money on mine). I agree that the BF looks better. But.........then I heard about the Coyote V8. The Boss motor is like having an Russian tank under the bonnet. So I've gone from thinking I'd never get another to "I can't wait to get one".

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

It just doesn't make economic sense for the majority of us.........

You think you are the majority?

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

....then the rest of us plebs still have some fantastic options to keep our BOSSes at the very pointy end of the performance arena

Depends how you define performance. On the track? No way. You'd get flogged by a much lighter V8 that has it's weight much lower in the engine bay.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

I'm already 1/2 way to saving the required $$$ for my own S/C instal that will provide me with the nappy changes I need everytime I push the button. The technology is out there now for most punters, and there is enough competition to ensure a high quality aftermarket product that is proven to work with the current BOSS motor and provide spectacular results with easy ROOM TO MOVE upwards..............

FPV are fighting the long stroke motor, trying to rev it harder by putting light pistons and conrods in it. You stick a S/C on a motor that was never designed for forced induction. Your choice. Yes , I know you can spend the money and do it properly but most don't and it costs a fortune.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

If they bought out an AWD coupe......

I don't think an AWD system would do much for performance. Too heavy.

For the record. I lease mine and I'd lease the next one.

geckoGT · 20-06-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

What equalled by displacement capacity of over one litre??? Nah. Its new world mate and its the other way round. People will be asking why the HSV is so slow and uses so much fuel compared to the 5.0. There is a real risk that the HSV engines will be seen as very much yesterday. It’s an equally valid stand point to the one you suggest.

It’s a BS argument. It won’t matter how you get there, it’s the end result that matters and in that the FPV V8 won’t be lacking.
And for clarification my comments were speaking of consumer expectation. There is no justification in expecting anything other than a GT that fights on an equal footing to that offered by its major competitor. Head down that path and expectations will be exceeded. The how it gets there is irrilevent.

I have to agree with you here, many manufacturers are spending a lot of time and money advertising that they are achieving better efficiency and therefore fuel economy out of using smaller capacity with forced induction rather than big cubes. The public is getting used to this and I think perception is changing. The buyer will do the comparison, when faced with a 7L V8 with 330kw and a fuel consumption of 14.5/100km or a 5L S/C V8 with 330kw and a fuel consumption of 13.5L/100km (figures for illustration only and totally speculative), guess which they will see as the better power plant?

Personally I think FPV are on a better wicket here and have a better prospect rather than trying to keep the donosaur alive like the other team is doing.

HSE2 · 20-06-2009, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Personally I think FPV are on a better wicket here and have a better prospect rather than trying to keep the donosaur alive like the other team is doing.

Agreed and it will only get better as the engine is developed both here and state side.

HSV never mounted an attack on the F6 trying to make it needed a turbo to better the 6.2 litre HSV and it’s only the more obscure owner that tries to bring up the subject. Times have moved on and this time round the smart money would be on public sentiment seeing more with less as the approved route.

I know I always like to think I have achieved more with less ;)

geckoGT · 20-06-2009, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

I know I always like to think I have achieved more with less ;)

So it is not the size of the tool that matters then?

Whitey-AMG · 20-06-2009, 07:58 PM

Welcome to the Forums Kraziman........

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraziman

You think you are the majority?

Yes........the majority who own and not lease a B series and aren't willing to trade it for peanut $$$ return.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kraziman

You stick a S/C on a motor that was never designed for forced induction. Your choice. Yes , I know you can spend the money and do it properly but most don't and it costs a fortune.

S/C results on the BOSS motor speak for themselves.......this Forum is full of people that can give you 1st hand results and advice on different levels and $$$ involved. Like anything, you can spend as little or as much as you can afford.........what makes you think that the Factory version will be special enough that many punters will not modify it 10 mins after they drive it out of the dealer...........adding 1000's more to the purchase price.

Anyway...........I'm getting off topic..............and in all reality, I really hope it turns out to be a fantastic product and sells well for FPV. My point is that there are still fantastic options for us that will not trade up..........enough to keep us happy without wondering .........what if.........

Cheers

Falc'man · 20-06-2009, 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

Why can't I give rep points again.

You need to give more out to ~15 other users before you can for the same user.

Quote:

Originally Posted by HSE2

Expect a GT that will fight against the clubsport and expect it to fight against a clubsport packing 327kws. That means comparable pricing and performance.

If they are the baselines for people's expectations I think they will be reasonably impressed and if they aren't, well God help FPV because clearly we can't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

I'm also wondering if the potential FPV S/C V8 owner will be satisfied in a product that merely matches the alternative offering from HSV.......a N/A clubsport. As HSE2 alluded to........it may be what FPV are aiming for......equal / similar performance. Don't know about you, but there's just something mentally and emotionally disappointing about a perceived premium S/C application being equalled by a N/A one ????

Methinks the HSV marketing machine will have a field day............

:

You misread/misunderstood Ian's post.

Kraziman · 20-06-2009, 08:30 PM

ESP. Just a bit of banter. Lucky we're all different or the forums would be a quiet place.

All the best mate. Hope your S/C GT rocks.

phillyc · 20-06-2009, 08:53 PM

There will be big demand for the FG with s/c 5.0L v8 from both FPV and HSV people. Most will think immediately, that this will be easy to get extra power out of once it's out of warranty. Some won't wait that long!

DougM · 20-06-2009, 08:54 PM

I don't understand all the bagging of the Boss motor???? In SC form at least.......The 2005 ford GT(GT40) is still a weapon.... Look at the power of the gt500 stangs in the states?????? I'm not saying they're perfect but they're in some really awesome cars.......

geckoGT · 20-06-2009, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DougM

I don't understand all the bagging of the Boss motor???? In SC form at least.......The 2005 ford GT(GT40) is still a weapon.... Look at the power of the gt500 stangs in the states?????? I'm not saying they're perfect but they're in some really awesome cars.......

No one is "bagging" S/C Boss motors, the problem is they will not comply with the new emission regs so therefore they have no future.

We are not here to bag out BOSS or 6T motors, we are here to talk about the new S/C V8.

Walt Kowalski · 20-06-2009, 09:02 PM

Imagine the carbon footprint of a Supercharged V8.

DISGUSTING

The next V8 should have a Prius engine.

Na just kiddin. I want one.

Anyone know if 351KW is a possibility while maintaining factory standards?

PS IMO carbon footprint propaganda is complete rubbish propogated by left wing looney earth worshipping tree hugging profit hating servants of satan. Anyone noticed that big orange thing in the eastern morning sky? The earth has been warming since the end of the ice age when Fred Flintstone took his car to the bowling alley. And the sun came up. Well thats what I reckon anyway.

Now back to the Blown V8. Bring it on. I'll never buy another I6T

geckoGT · 20-06-2009, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Walt Kowalski

Imagine the carbon footprint of a Supercharged V8.

DISGUSTING

With the compliance to the new regs will require it to be less than the current BOSS motor, so not a problem.

**russellw** · 20-06-2009, 09:24 PM

We well know, from the various miscues and missed opportunities of the past, that Tickford / FTE / FPV / (insert future name here), have built their business on doing just enough to keep us interested without actually doing anything that was truly exciting, innovative or desirable.

A little research will fairly quickly indicate the reasoning behind the sudden consideration of a forced induction option for the next generation V8 and (as usual) it has little to do with offerering anything of real substance to the enthusiast consumer but rather more to do with addressing the inadequacies of that engine in stock N/A form.

That isn't to suggest it won't have potential (it will) but in the form it appears ex factory I would be tipping an ultra conservative approach and a minor increase over the power figures currently available.

I'm not suggesting that to be a bad thing but simply something we should bear in mind before we become too excited at what will be delivered - particularly when the price / performance / reliability targets that FPV will need to achieve are considered.

It will still be good times ahead with the choices available to the pending FPV owner but whether these ever translate into HSV beaters (although in some minds they are now) will remain to be seen. What we should see is the curent status quo being maintained where the current offerings are both reasonable choices aimed at their specific demographic markets.

Cheers
Russ

OZQUAD44 · 21-06-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

We well know, from the various miscues and missed opportunities of the past, that Tickford / FTE / FPV / (insert future name here), have built their business on doing just enough to keep us interested without actually doing anything that was truly exciting, innovative or desirable.

Whilst I agree with the theme of your post Russ, I think you were a bit harsh here^^.

The 250KW T3 was exciting, the EL GT was innovative (some say ugglee), and the BA GT "when it landed" was very desirable. If you could lay critisism at FPV I would say its the "sticker kit" upgrades that have been somewhat disappointing.

Whitey-AMG · 21-06-2009, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

We well know, from the various miscues and missed opportunities of the past, that Tickford / FTE / FPV / (insert future name here), have built their business on doing just enough to keep us interested without actually doing anything that was truly exciting, innovative or desirable.

A little research will fairly quickly indicate the reasoning behind the sudden consideration of a forced induction option for the next generation V8 and (as usual) it has little to do with offerering anything of real substance to the enthusiast consumer but rather more to do with addressing the inadequacies of that engine in stock N/A form.

That isn't to suggest it won't have potential (it will) but in the form it appears ex factory I would be tipping an ultra conservative approach and a minor increase over the power figures currently available.

I'm not suggesting that to be a bad thing but simply something we should bear in mind before we become too excited at what will be delivered - particularly when the price / performance / reliability targets that FPV will need to achieve are considered.

It will still be good times ahead with the choices available to the pending FPV owner but whether these ever translate into HSV beaters (although in some minds they are now) will remain to be seen. What we should see is the curent status quo being maintained where the current offerings are both reasonable choices aimed at their specific demographic markets.

Cheers
Russ

Exactly............Amen..............Over and out !!

**russellw** · 21-06-2009, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OZQUAD44

Whilst I agree with the theme of your post Russ, I think you were a bit harsh here^^.

The 250KW T3 was exciting, the EL GT was innovative (some say ugglee), and the BA GT "when it landed" was very desirable. If you could lay critisism at FPV I would say its the "sticker kit" upgrades that have been somewhat disappointing.

Notwithstanding that each of the examples given is polarising to some extent, I'd agree that they meet the criteria as individual models but that perhaps only emphasises the point because we should be able to get all of those things in one car - not three.

As enthusiasts we will never get what we actually want in the current market environment as there are as many permutations as there are individuals and perhaps it is unrealistic to expect that any one vehicle can meet all three of those expectations for any one person let alone for volumes of people. It is probably as much about meeting as many compromise positions as possible in order to ensure tha there are adequate sales volumes and leave the rest of the individualisation to the after market.

Anyway back to the actual topic at hand.....

Cheers
Russ

Bossxr8 · 21-06-2009, 04:46 PM

Surely FPV will not be able to resist the temptation to bring back both the Boss 351 and 351 GT badges back into circulation.

Would anyone believe them if the XR8 was 300 kw and the supercharged version was only 325 kw. No one would fall for that.

Also HSV's LS3 makes 325 kw in the Vette, its slightly detuned for HSV, and it will most likely jump up to 325 for the VF. FPV will want to beat that, and why would they not want to beat that easily?

It is likely the quoted figures will be under what the real figures are, but pegging those numbers to say 325 is just not believable when the XR8 version is supposed to make 300. Its more likely it will make 370+ but will be underquoted. Just look at the rwkw figures are for the F6, it makes well more than 315. I'd say for the next model the figures will probably increase without them actually doing much to it just because it makes more than todays 315 quoted figures. They should make it more than what HSV will have for the VF just so they can say every car they sell makes more power than HSV's do.

If its power and speed that sells give the customers what they want, don't chicken out on the chance to put the boot firmly down onto HSV's throat.

HSV have already gone to 370+ kw with the WD40, so the precedent has been set to achieve those power levels, not to mention what AMG, M and Audi's RS models have achieved.

JPFS1 · 21-06-2009, 08:31 PM

Got some interesting vehicles for next weekend...Euro S/C V8's.. I guess I could call it 'benchmarking'.... ;)

ivorya · 21-06-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

Got some interesting vehicles for next weekend...Euro S/C V8's.. I guess I could call it 'benchmarking'.... ;)

We're all excited about this new v8 and to be benchmarking against europes best, 'I've just jizzed in my pants'. I'll be waiting to hear how the new coyote performs..

Will there be any panel changes in the update or will it just be engine due to the new regs?

HEMI POWER · 21-06-2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ESP

Meh.........

I would never trade in the BFGT for a monumental loss to trade up to something with 40Kw more and with styling that doesn't excite me. It just doesn't make economic sense for the majority of us.........and unless this thing is REALLY going to be a balanced genuine supercar ( which it wont )........then the rest of us plebs still have some fantastic options to keep our BOSSes at the very pointy end of the performance arena.

I'm already 1/2 way to saving the required $$$ for my own S/C instal that will provide me with the nappy changes I need everytime I push the button. The technology is out there now for most punters, and there is enough competition to ensure a high quality aftermarket product that is proven to work with the current BOSS motor and provide spectacular results with easy ROOM TO MOVE upwards..............

A S/C ( HARROP ) FPV will be great for possibly lowering the prices of aftermarket kits to more acceptable levels as the factory competition possibly takes it toll on the smaller suppliers.

More choice for everyone............we all win............

Exactly............I've made mention of this many times before on this thread and many others. Some of the exagerated expectations here remind me of the 351Kw expectations for the FG BOSS !

The new shed should be up by then to house another GT

so don't stress ESP ill take you for a spin in the new SC GT when i get it.

:

Wally · 21-06-2009, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivorya

We're all excited about this new v8 and to be benchmarking against europes best, 'I've just jizzed in my pants'. I'll be waiting to hear how the new coyote performs..

Will there be any panel changes in the update or will it just be engine due to the new regs?

Flared guards would be nice.

JPFS1 · 21-06-2009, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ivorya

We're all excited about this new v8 and to be benchmarking against europes best, 'I've just jizzed in my pants'. I'll be waiting to hear how the new coyote performs..

Will there be any panel changes in the update or will it just be engine due to the new regs?

Don't read too much into what I said, i was being a little mischievous

It's not actually a head to head benchmarking exercise at this point. It's more of a fun outing (AMG 55, and RS4), but I will try and take note of 'seat of the pants' experience, for when I do take on the new baby at some point (hopefully).

SVTVNM · 22-06-2009, 10:54 AM

Havn't opened it to read yet but it seems WHEELS mag has picked up on the "SCOOP" front cover blue FG GT, front view GT_HO badge on grill. Have to admit with just those 2 extra letters on grill makes we want one even more.