Covid 19 -

[Tickford.]

Who is the Director-General of the World Health Organization? And how did he get to that position?

https://video.foxnews.com/v/6150957127001#sp=show-clips


And this fraud is responsible for the world populations health??

[CJR09]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Does mowing lawns and washing cars count as exercise?

One hour walk mid afternoon has been my routine lately.

Today's walk was particularly pleasant.

image

Lawns tots counts - takes me 4hr on acreage due to number of trees - 2hr on ride on, 2hr on the pushy

Pity thats about all I do 1 a week - go with the misses and daughter for lunchtime walk every second day or so, and a ride on the bike once a week, so not all that bed i guess

Miss the squash and basketball, never been one for the gym - although i do have rowing machine I should get out!

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Ben73

I think the worry was if people see no cases near by they will get complacent and act like nothing is going on. Then if someone enters that community who is infected it will spread around more.

I think NSW started releasing numbers by postcode to show that it is almost everywhere and you should be careful.

Me be careful?

I'm in Central Qld, a long way from NSW

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

Another trial has shown the malaria drug hydroxycloroquine to be actually worse than useless.
https://www.nationalreview.com/news/...irus-patients/

What the article doesn't disclose is if the malaria drug combination is given when symptoms first appear the success rate is around 100%. By the time the patient requires intubation just about nothing will work.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by Romulus

What the article doesn't disclose is if the malaria drug combination is given when symptoms first appear the success rate is around 100%. By the time the patient requires intubation just about nothing will work.

I can't find any reports of any tests with that success rate. Here is a paper about an early French trial that has been widely promoted on social media. Because it was rushed the methodology has been heavily criticised. It doesn't state clearly how early the treatment began but 3 patients were removed from the trial when they had to be taken to intensive care. One died and another had to stop treatment because of side effects.

https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2764065

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by russellw

OK - so (as expected) the volume of tests being conducted varies widely but the top 5 countries in terms of tests per 100k of population are Italy (3,930); Switzerland (3,225); Australia (2,582); NZ (2,441) and Spain (2,410).

At the other end of the scale (and remember these are only countries with higher case numbers) we have Colombia (173), Brazil (176), Ecuador (262), Peru (622) and Iran (686).

image

In terms of tests conducted per confirmed case, most countries are below 10 except for Australia and NZ which are both > 60!

image

What can we extrapolate from that?

We can probably draw the conclusion that we (AU/NZ) are testing more people than we really need to but if that conservative approach is helping us keep the numbers down then so be it.

Otherwise, we probably can't extrapolate much else given that most of the tests are probably still being conducted on people who present with enough symptoms to merit being tested so it still leaves the hidden cases that are either no or very mild symptoms and we can't even properly say that if 'x' more people were tested you'd get similar numbers of confirmed cases because you wouldn't.

What we'd need to draw any conclusions is a large enough sample group to be all tested regardless of symptoms and even then any extrapolated data would be rubbery at best.

Japan is really interesting, i would have thought Japan would be very thorough and yet they have only tested 985 per million compared to Australia at 17700 per million

[roddy1960]

Originally Posted by Ben73

That's awesome. I have never been intro trains, especially since I work with them, but I have always wanted to build a model railway like this. Probably has to do with my interest in town planning and design.

Thanks Ben...I ended up starting a hobby/pastime /interests etc thread last night to ask fellow AFF ers what they're into these days to distract away from the current heath crisis or maybe other life issues .
Or just something interesting to think about . I had a ball for a few hours yesterday just mucking around on rebuilding my second set up. Never thought of Covid 19 once for quite a while ..Powering up switches from the main board is fiddley but fun when they work .

I have to be distracted because I over think everything that worries me which is a lot . Can start out as a minor issue and end up keeping me awake at night . I've had professional councelling with it too over the years. Doing something I enjoy certainly helps but trying to rate a list of problems on a 1 to 10 scale method does too as outlined by the councellor I've seen a couple of times now .

[Romulus]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

I can't find any reports of any tests with that success rate. Here is a paper about an early French trial that has been widely promoted on social media. Because it was rushed the methodology has been heavily criticised. It doesn't state clearly how early the treatment began but 3 patients were removed from the trial when they had to be taken to intensive care. One died and another had to stop treatment because of side effects.

https://annals.org/aim/fullarticle/2764065

There's a doctor in upstate New York that's used the drug combination in over 700 patients with zero hospitalisation rate and full recovery in 5 days. If I find it I'll post the link.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by Romulus

There's a doctor in upstate New York that's used the drug combination in over 700 patients with zero hospitalisation rate and full recovery in 5 days. If I find it I'll post the link.

Trump and Fox News have moved on... you should too.

[russellw]

Only 4 new cases in Australia yesterday but sadly, 3 deaths so the CMR rises to 1.13%.
6 new cases and 1 death for NZ so the CMR rises to 0.965%.
The UK CMR rises to 13.559% and the USA rises to 5.613%.

One of the things I find most horrific in the daily stats is just how big a gap there is in terms of mortality rates for different countries. Australia and NZ are well ahead of the curve with 0.435 and 0.382 deaths per 100k people respectively, while Belgium (67.641) and Italy (67.989) are at the other end of the scale.

This pretty much reflected in the case mortality rates (CMR) above with both Australia and NZ hovering around the 1% mark but Belgium (14.949%) and Italy (13.931) near the worst along with the UK.

To put that in perspective:

In Australia you currently have a 2,557:1 chance of getting COVID19 and a 229,731:1 chance of dying of it.

In Italy your chance of getting COVID19 is 197:1 and you have a 1,471:1 chance that it will kill you.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by russellw

Only 4 new cases in Australia yesterday but sadly, 3 deaths so the CMR rises to 1.13%.
6 new cases and 1 death for NZ so the CMR rises to 0.965%.
The UK CMR rises to 13.559% and the USA rises to 5.613%.

One of the things I find most horrific in the daily stats is just how big a gap there is in terms of mortality rates for different countries. Australia and NZ are well ahead of the curve with 0.435 and 0.382 deaths per 100k people respectively, while Belgium (67.641) and Italy (67.989) are at the other end of the scale.

This pretty much reflected in the case mortality rates (CMR) above with both Australia and NZ hovering around the 1% mark but Belgium (14.949%) and Italy (13.931) near the worst along with the UK.

To put that in perspective:

In Australia you currently have a 2,557:1 chance of getting COVID19 and a 229,731:1 chance of dying of it.

In Italy your chance of getting COVID19 is 197:1 and you have a 1,471:1 chance that it will kill you.

Big differences in lifestyles, population densities, demographics and attitudes between Italians and Australians though.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by cs123

Trump and Fox News have moved on... you should too.

This is the perfect example of what’s wrong with the media, too busy focussing on screaming “Trump was wrong!”

This was touted by several medical professions as being a possible solution, to a worldwide epidemic killing thousands of people and destroying economies and instead of the focus being maybe if we get the medication to the patients at an earlier stage it could help, as has been demonstrated by several medical professionals, there’s a celebration that was can rub it in Trumps face.

Further large scale studies are ongoing at different stages of infection, as Romulus stated once intubation is required the lung damage is so severe they are in an extremely compromised condition.

Personally I’m hoping like anything that the further studies have better results inline with the French study and the independent doctors successes, because rather than play politics and giggle at a potential egg on face moment it would save people’s lives from the virus and the on flow effects of the economic fallout.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

This is the perfect example of what’s wrong with the media, too busy focussing on screaming “Trump was wrong!”

This was touted by several medical professions as being a possible solution, to a worldwide epidemic killing thousands of people and destroying economies and instead of the focus being maybe if we get the medication to the patients at an earlier stage it could help, as has been demonstrated by several medical professionals, there’s a celebration that was can rub it in Trumps face.

Further large scale studies are ongoing at different stages of infection, as Romulus stated once intubation is required the lung damage is so severe they are in an extremely compromised condition.

Personally I’m hoping like anything that the further studies have better results inline with the French study and the independent doctors successes, because rather than play politics and giggle at a potential egg on face moment it would save people’s lives from the virus and the on flow effects of the economic fallout.

while i agree finding effective treatments is critical, there is a reason that normal testing takes as long as it does. They have to be certain about all side effects for all stages etc.

these articles are just highlighting the risks with rushing these 'solutions' in to the public arena without proper testing procedures. a study of 700 people is stupidly small and hardly a cause to start using it mainstream.

[roddy1960]

Do these viruses get wiped out more or less completely once the vaccine is available or do they just hang around in the background something like flu and keep mutating a bit like flu does with different strains ?. I thought I heard a mention somewhere in the past week or two that there may already be different strains of the virus or that there were concerns it might become that . Can't remember which .

[prydey]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Do these viruses get wiped out more or less completely once the vaccine is available or do they just hang around in the background something like flu and keep mutating a bit like flu does with different strains ?. I thought I heard a mention somewhere in the past week or two that there may already be different strains of the virus or that there were concerns it might become that . Can't remember which .

here to stay

[guzzis3]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

This is the perfect example of what’s wrong with the media, too busy focussing on screaming “Trump was wrong!”

It's worse than that. No one in the arguments/reports/commentaries are actually interested in solutions. They are only interested in arguing and being acknowledged as right. That's why people huddle in echo chambers now, they cannot stand to be contradicted, and if you make the mistake of wandering in your get vilified, viciously.

Trump doesn't matter. That's all you need to know about Trump. Same as scomo bojo and all the rest. The people that matter are the ones you never hear of..

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by prydey

while i agree finding effective treatments is critical, there is a reason that normal testing takes as long as it does. They have to be certain about all side effects for all stages etc.

these articles are just highlighting the risks with rushing these 'solutions' in to the public arena without proper testing procedures. a study of 700 people is stupidly small and hardly a cause to start using it mainstream.

Depends on the circumstances, if these people were likely to have recovered and have now died then yes, absolutely, if these people were likely to die and had nothing to lose then no.

When my father died of cancer he elected to use experimental treatment as an opportunity to possibly extending his life, due to other complications it was unsuccessful and if framed in the wrong light could be easily argued it potentially ended his life, we supported and continue to support his decision in the circumstance.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Big differences in lifestyles, population densities, demographics and attitudes between Italians and Australians though.

Read something yesterday about our high UV radiation levels being one of the major reasons it hasn't been as severe here. Obviously UV radiation kills or damages the virus if it is exposed.

We have the highest levels of UV radiation in the world, and the southern hemisphere has higher levels of UV radiation as a whole, due to our location making us closer to the sun than they are in the north. Partly explains why the northern hemisphere has been hit much harder. Population density is also one of the major contributers like you said.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Do these viruses get wiped out more or less completely once the vaccine is available or do they just hang around in the background something like flu and keep mutating a bit like flu does with different strains ?. I thought I heard a mention somewhere in the past week or two that there may already be different strains of the virus or that there were concerns it might become that . Can't remember which .

They have recorded 30 different strains so far. But it was a study by chinese scientists so it's probably complete horse crap

[russellw]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Do these viruses get wiped out more or less completely once the vaccine is available or do they just hang around in the background something like flu and keep mutating a bit like flu does with different strains ?. I thought I heard a mention somewhere in the past week or two that there may already be different strains of the virus or that there were concerns it might become that . Can't remember which .

It's a good question and one with multiple answers based on similar viral threats.

Type I: ones that are considered wiped out like Smallpox - it killed about 30% of the people who got it and spread through the trade routes. A vaccine was available from the early 19th century (1801) but it took 170 years to eradicate it completely although it was largely gone from the Western world a bit earlier than that.

Type II: the 'new but we can probably get on top of it' ones like Dengue for which there has been a vaccine since 2019 and Rotavirus which also has a vaccine so these should eventually disappear or become another Type IV.

Type III: the 'unresolved but sporadic outbreak' ones like Marburg (80% mortality), Ebola (50-70%) and Hanta (36%) for which there is no vaccine or cure.

Type IV: the 'should be eradicated but aren't' ones like Rabies which has effectively disappeared from the Western world but still kills people in Africa and India. The vaccine has been available since the 1920's and there are treatments to enable survival but without treatment the mortality rate is 100%.

Type V: the 'treatable but unstoppable' ones like HIV which is probably the worst of the modern viral epidemics and still a major problem in lower socio-economies. It's not curable as such but it no longer shortens the lifespan of those who can afford treatment.

Type VI: the 'sort of manageable but not really' like Influenza. It keeps developing different strains; still kills > 500k people a year and while vaccines are available their success rate is only around 65%.

It's hard to know yet which type COVID19 will end up being but both the other Coronavirus outbreaks have no vaccines or treatments as yet:

SAR-CoV hasn't been diagnosed since about 2003 and it only infected ~8,000 people albeit with an almost 10% mortality rate so it may have just disappeared so I'd say it's a Type III.

MERS-CoV is far deadlier with a 30-40% mortality rate but has only had three outbreaks (2012, 2015 & 2019) and a total of ~2,500 cases and it also looks like a Type III.

I'm leaning toward this being another Type III unless we get a viable treatment which would make it a Type V or a vaccine which would probably make it similar to Influenza as Type VI. But that's all supposition frankly.

[roddy1960]

Thanks on the breakdown russellw and other replies ...struth ... not as straight forward as some are making out then . The vaccine is the key though before a normality can really be considered . Until then it's control and finding an effective and safe treatment for those poor buggers who get infected .. Dang.

[cs123]

Originally Posted by roddy1960

Thanks on the breakdown russellw and other replies ...struth ... not as straight forward as some are making out then . The vaccine is the key though before a normality can really be considered . Until then it's control and finding an effective and safe treatment for those poor buggers who get infected .. Dang.

I think an effective treatment will be the first big step.

[BENT_8]

Finally got some good news on a personal front, employer rang me yesterday and asked if I wanted to return for the new school term and would I like to be paid under the job keeper scheme.
Spoke with the Wife and tin lids about it last night and after 5 weeks away from School and with the risks much lower now that infection rates have almost stalled in SA, the kids jumped at the opportunity to get back to some form of normality.
So, come Monday morning, im back to work and cant bloody wait.

[FPV8U]

https://youtu.be/RexUJeWmzSE

Fox News response to Veterans Affairs survey including partial interview with representative from VA and French Doctor Didier Raoult from initial 1,000 patient response to findings in survey.

Based on the information presented, I’d hardly give up on this as a potential treatment.

Also covers exactly the same points i mentioned earlier, the media was so keen to pounce on a failure they didn’t pay attention to the details, MSM reporting is dead.

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Finally got some good news on a personal front, employer rang me yesterday and asked if I wanted to return for the new school term and would I like to be paid under the job keeper scheme.
Spoke with the Wife and tin lids about it last night and after 5 weeks away from School and with the risks much lower now that infection rates have almost stalled in SA, the kids jumped at the opportunity to get back to some form of normality.
So, come Monday morning, im back to work and cant bloody wait.

Awesome to have some genuinely positive news in here and to see some of the governments initiatives to be working, excellent result.

[MITCHAY]

Ruby Princess is leaving Port Kembla now. Almost 10% of total cases and nearly 30% of deaths linked to it. What a huge ****up, so glad to see it go!

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Finally got some good news on a personal front, employer rang me yesterday and asked if I wanted to return for the new school term and would I like to be paid under the job keeper scheme.
Spoke with the Wife and tin lids about it last night and after 5 weeks away from School and with the risks much lower now that infection rates have almost stalled in SA, the kids jumped at the opportunity to get back to some form of normality.
So, come Monday morning, im back to work and cant bloody wait.

Great news mate and good to see the payments having the intended outcomes, keeping people employed.

A lot of people commenting on some issues with it. You're never going to get it perfect if you want quick action but glad that it will save some jobs if not the amount we would hope for. We will see but good that it has helped you out.

[BENT_8]

Thanks guys, I actually applied for the Jobseeker payment after they raised the partner threshold, not that I thought i'd get much.
When I lodged my claim I got a text saying it was received and that if successful i'd be back payed from 30/3 but wouldn't be completed until 19/4.
On 19/4 I got a message saying it was approved but I wouldn't be paid anything until the fortnight from 22/4 to 6/5.
So it looks as though the big talk about looking after those effected is not quite what its being made out to be as by the time I got paid, i'd have been without income from 27/3 until 6/5, the best part of 6 weeks.
Thankfully i'll be back to work and paid by them before i'd get anything from centrelink.

[FTE217]

Well I've known people and companies getting their payments through Gov so there you go.
Can't please em all, can imagine the back log.

[cheap]

Another assistance for small businesses.

Federal Government: Cash Flow Boost (CFB) $20,000 to $100,000 - if you run a small business, best discuss with your accountant.

God knows how the country will ever repay CFB and jobkeeper and jobseeker and all the other assistance being offered ??? But as my socialist neighbour says - "its just imaginary money, nothing is real"

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by cheap

Another assistance for small businesses.

Federal Government: Cash Flow Boost (CFB) $20,000 to $100,000 - if you run a small business, best discuss with your accountant.

God knows how the country will ever repay CFB and jobkeeper and jobseeker and all the other assistance being offered ??? But as my socialist neighbour says - "its just imaginary money, nothing is real"

Deal with the immediate issue and worry about the debt later. No point having a pile of money at the end if you don't make it there. I'm not saying **** it up against the wall and it may in hindsight be too much but so far it seems proportionate.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by FTE217

Well I've known people and companies getting their payments through Gov so there you go.
Can't please em all, can imagine the back log.

Employee's yes, but companies wont be reimbursed for jobkeeper payments until after May 1st so I read.