RANT - Old people on our roads

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Debzilla_108

i think prob more the idiot P platers stick out more then the good p platers...because on the news you hear.... P Platers crashs into tree....you dont hear about the good ones..so it seems there are alot..

and i am a P platers (with out the plates was lucky i got my lisence before it came in to display them in QLD) and im kinda glad i dont have to display them...they seems to get targeted by the police. and being i have a grandpa car lol i dont even get a second look from the police

I think P platers also show off more to other P Platers... I noticed I had more... reving engines beside me at the lights..when I had p plates than when I didnt show them.

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Fev

In NSW every p-plater before or after the law where you have to display plates outside the cabin has to do it.. its great for the paint!

What do you mean? They have P Plate holders to attach to your rego plate..

[Fev]

and those scratch the paint too, its not that big of a deal, atleast the RTA gives the plates away for free(i have a stack of them in my glove box when one or both go missing)

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Fev

and those scratch the paint too, its not that big of a deal, atleast the RTA gives the plates away for free(i have a stack of them in my glove box when one or both go missing)

Maybe you should put them on properly.... sticks and stones scratch paint to does that mean your not going to drive anywhere...?

[Debzilla_108]

if they lean against the car they will rub/scratch....ive seen em before but not up close....sounds like they might rub the bumper

[Fev]

your gonna tell me a stone kicked up from the car in front is gonna make a mark as noticeable on paint as a metal frame screwed into the numberplate holes to come out the side? hah..

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Debzilla_108

if they lean against the car they will rub/scratch....ive seen em before but not up close....sounds like they might rub the bumper

I didn't say that they wouldn't do damage if incorrectly installed etc.. but if your that finicky about your car then put some sort of protective coating around the back there are heaps of things you could do to prevent the scratching... you can customize your car...but not the surround of your P plate?

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Fev

your gonna tell me a stone kicked up from the car in front is gonna make a mark as noticeable on paint as a metal frame screwed into the numberplate holes to come out the side? hah..

Geez mate you want to pick a fight with anything and anyone hey.... WHERE in the above post did I say that the stone was to be kicked up in front of your vehicle..and WHERE else did I say that it would be the same DAMAGE? Stop assuming............... and read.

[Debzilla_108]

actually i said i didnt no how they went on...i no they screw in rego plate hole? but wasnt sure if they sat on bumper...and was asking in a round about way if this is what happens...and if it is..then id say it would start to mark the paint...

as i stated i dont actually know how they go on/ sit once on...someone with more knowledge please share..

and actually some people do care about marks on there car....being i have a black car...every mark that is preventable is great...

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Debzilla_108

and actually some people do care about marks on there car....being i have a black car...every mark that is preventable is great...

Did I say... that I dont believe that people care about marks on their cars... and are you insinuating that I dont care about marks on my car?? Of course anyone who is appreciative of their car big small new or old... doesn't want marks that are preventable..I certainly dont.

[Fev]

Originally Posted by outback_chick

Geez mate you want to pick a fight with anything and anyone hey.... WHERE in the above post did I say that the stone was to be kicked up in front of your vehicle..and WHERE else did I say that it would be the same DAMAGE? Stop assuming............... and read.

im not tryin to pick a fight or anything, but you implied that stone chips are gonna make a mark as noticeable as the p-plates and their holders and if its a stone chip 99% of the time its gonna be on the front of the car...

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Fev

im not tryin to pick a fight or anything, but you implied that stone chips are gonna make a mark as noticeable as the p-plates and their holders and if its a stone chip 99% of the time its gonna be on the front of the car...

I implied stone chips would do damage I didnt state how much... you assumed the amount of damage would be connected to the same amount of damage as the P plate holder..... and do you know for a fact that 99% of stonechips occur on the front of the car? Because if you cant back that up with evidence I wouldnt be making a statement like that..(stop assuming).. especially seeing as most of my stone chips are mainly on the sides of the car between the wheels at the bottom of the panels. Also your missing the point here and getting way off track. If its that bad why haven't you put some sort of protective coating etc on your P plate surround? : You were the one whinging about your paint job...

[Full Noise]

This thread has a lot in common with this train.

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by Rodp

P plates isn't age discrimination though. It's a plate which signifies an inexperienced driver. If someone were to tootle to the RTA at the age of 50 having never held a licence and passes their driving test, are they exempt from wearing a P plate because they're 50?

More expensive insurance for young drivers is based on crash statistics. Look up a few posts. *At best*, 18-29's are twice more likely to be involved in an accident than any other age group (per head). I'd wager that if you were to drop it to 18-25, it would be even higher. 18-29's are statistically more likely to be involved in an accident, therefore insurance companies offer higher premiums to offset the increased cost of repairs in that age group.

We'll ask you how keen you are about the E plates in about 50 years time, shall we? ;)

You've made your mind up, so there's no point trying to convince you otherwise...

A human being must display P plates so that the general public can easily identify these people and be aware of the restrictions placed on them - their inability to travel above 80km per hour. This creates tolerance.

The elderly, generally, share the similarities of a P plater. Cautious, chaotic, unable to travel at or near the posted limit, etc. If they were made to display E plates, then I believe that this too would create tolerance and reduce road rage. What harm can it do? Surely the positives out-weigh a human being over 60 (for example) displaying a little "E" in their front and back windows.

I can honestly tell you that when I grow old and my ability to drive diminishes, I would not mind one little bit if E plates ensured that the general public were aware of this and adjusted their tolerance levels to suit. Better that than to be a victim of (or be the cause of) road rage...

[Bobman]

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gi...8279360&ref=mf

Facebook group about elderly drivers in Melbourne. Some interesting reading.

While I have a lot of patience for this driver group, all too often I see cars being used as touch parking objects or even side swipped by weaving and confused elderly drivers (see it every day as a courier).

They're not the worst on the roads though, but I don't see many other elderly people being disadvantaged by not having a car or a licence (having spoken to many). There are buses and council activities which have a pick-up/drop-off service.

[DDXR6T]

Originally Posted by Full Noise

This thread has a lot in common with this train.

Agreed, the thread was not meant as a P plate attack once again ... simply my observations. I clearly stated in the first post that this was not the subject to be discussed.

[aussiblue]

I clearly stated in the first post that this was not the subject to be discussed.

Sorry I must object to that claim. It certainly didn't appear to me that your original post suggested P plater were not to be discussed. In any event, sorry but if that was your intention, it certainly wasn't clear at all to me. Indeed, you actually raised that very issue yourself in the first and last line of the starting post:

It is widely documented that P platers are a major trouble on our roads, but it seems the media is fast to ignore another major problem which is old people. ...........
While some people will agree 'P' platers are also a trouble group, Im sure most will agree old people are not focussed upon as much as they should be.

In any event, freedom of speech lives to some extent on this forum at least, and you surely didn't expect you could dictate what relevant issues people would choose to cover in their responses. I would have expected that reference to other age groups would be part of the debate (indeed, you made such references yourself) and without comparing the oldies to other groups or making some comparison with other age groups performance there actually seems little to debate and little foundation to your initial argument - then perhaps it would be seen as just a subjective oldies attack rather than P plater attack?

[aussiblue]

PS for the record although a relative oldie myself, I don't agree with the current election pork barrelling WA proposal to stop P platers drive V8's and powerful cars as there is no statistical relationship between P platers killed in traffic accidents and the type of car they were driving. Similarly, I think some of the hoon laws are over the top - drunk driving, irresponsible speeding and dangerous driving is the issue not an occasional minor wheel squeal.

[xbgs351]

Originally Posted by Fev

your missing the point...

the first is that NO we didnt get to learn these names in driving history because we werent around when he was doin bathurst etc.. and i dont know anyone young that watches or enjoys formula fords etc..im sure they would be fun driving but its not exactly a huge spectator sport..

The fact that he is that old and still driving like that is great, for him.. But that doesnt mean every other over 60 or whatever year old has the same eyesight and hand/eye coordination as they did 20 years earlier and the fact is at those ages those thing DO deteriorate as just because he was. WAS, (maybe he still is but thats beside the point) a great racing driver DOES NOT make him exempt from a mandatory motor skills test..

The only reason i know those things is because i googled him.


ahaha

You missed my point. Thinking that not all young people are naive is just demonstrating your own naivety. Ask any 40 year old if they where naive when they were young and they will all say that they were. Ask any 18 year old if they are naive and none of them will say that they are.

As for not knowing things because you weren't there, that must be one of the lamest excuses that I have ever heard. I guess you don't know about things such as WWII or the fall or Rome as you weren't there either. No wonder you don't recognise the name of an Australian motor racing legend when you read it.

I also had a read about your antics following an 'older' driver. It sounds to me like you had ****ed him off with your own driving and hence he was deliberatley driving slowly to anoy you. With the kind of attitude that you seem to hold, it sounds like you are the one that shouldn't be driving.

[outback_chick]

Personally... I think the rules with P platers should be stricter... if they stuff up... remove license...dont just fine them.. most of the idiots can afford to be idiots... etc if they havent got a license they cant drive... they might learn that way..

[Debzilla_108]

if they stuff up...like make a mistake i dont think taking there lisence is right...maybe education is the way...a defence driving course.


if they are being silly then they need punishment but i dont think taking there licensce will work (they can still drive...and being that they have been silly in the 1st place guesses are they dont care aboout being in trouble) maybe for people that are caught more then once maybe something a little more real...like one day at a police station?or somewhere with a video of real life accidents watching ambos/cops scraping kids off the road from being silly....might thing twice about being silly next time...

altho the extra effort put in might just be wasted on them if they really dont care it wont have much affect on them.

[outback_chick]

Originally Posted by Debzilla_108

if they stuff up...like make a mistake i dont think taking there lisence is right...maybe education is the way...a defence driving course.


if they are being silly then they need punishment but i dont think taking there licensce will work (they can still drive...and being that they have been silly in the 1st place guesses are they dont care aboout being in trouble) maybe for people that are caught more then once maybe something a little more real...like one day at a police station?or somewhere with a video of real life accidents watching ambos/cops scraping kids off the road from being silly....might thing twice about being silly next time...

altho the extra effort put in might just be wasted on them if they really dont care it wont have much affect on them.

Yeah I agree.... sometimes people do learn on their first lesson... but I guess what I'm saying is those who do continually offend should have more serious punishment against them... maybe they should take their license off them and make them do driving lessons and pass each one again.. and yes maybe even photos and videos of the accidents that would be a good one... I dont know about any other state but in WA I think there is cars that have been in accidents put on display... with a slow down or dont drink and drive advert next to them.. up here in the NT there is a accident car display and road toll count for every fatality on the roads... it makes you think thats for sure.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Fev

i had the same sort of thing from a 55+. driving from hornsby to st ives(northern sydney) the back way i had to follow some moron doing 40 in a 60 zone. bearing in mind this is a normal 15min drive, it took double that. i ended up flashin lights and honkin the horn because they would slow down to 20 on a straight and then speed up etc.. just erratic driving, like simple 25-30km/hr corners they would be doing at a crawl and that kind of stuff.. FINALLY they pulled off to the side of the road to let me pass and by now we're in st ives.. AND THEY SPEED UP! i just booted it to get as far away as possible.

you get morons on the road anywhere regardless of age or experience

Indeed. You appear to be one of them on the road. Flashing lights and honking horns because the driver infront of you was going too slow for your liking. Where were you going that you were in such a hurry, Fangio?

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

You've made your mind up, so there's no point trying to convince you otherwise...

I've made my mind up? Your claim was P plates are age discrimination. Explain to me how they are?

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

I can honestly tell you that when I grow old and my ability to drive diminishes, I would not mind one little bit if E plates ensured that the general public were aware of this and adjusted their tolerance levels to suit. Better that than to be a victim of (or be the cause of) road rage...

Unless you're infront of Fev. :P

[Fev]

Originally Posted by xbgs351

You missed my point. Thinking that not all young people are naive is just demonstrating your own naivety. Ask any 40 year old if they where naive when they were young and they will all say that they were. Ask any 18 year old if they are naive and none of them will say that they are.

As for not knowing things because you weren't there, that must be one of the lamest excuses that I have ever heard. I guess you don't know about things such as WWII or the fall or Rome as you weren't there either. No wonder you don't recognise the name of an Australian motor racing legend when you read it.

I also had a read about your antics following an 'older' driver. It sounds to me like you had ****ed him off with your own driving and hence he was deliberatley driving slowly to anoy you. With the kind of attitude that you seem to hold, it sounds like you are the one that shouldn't be driving.

So all young people are naive? your full of it...

And no i didnt follow him the whole way flashing and tooting my horn, after the first 10 mins i got the shits with his/her(i think it was a her if i remember correctly with husband or whomever in passenger seat) erratic driving. Why the hell should i have to wait behind some moron who is driving the way they were and put myself in harms way? pah, too many people with political correctness shoved waaay to far up their noses

[PepeLePew]

Patience is a virtue with all types of road users. Old or young. I was behind a L plater yesterday, driving erratically, speeding up slowing down, kept my distance....they have enough on their mind and need the space to learn. I dont think honking or flashing would have helped their cause. No different to me those who are learning, to those who, at the other end of the time scale, are virtually unlearning. We all go through it, and none of us are perfect drivers.

Letting the frustration dog off the leash is the easiest way to rubbing metal.

[Fev]

it definately wasnt a learner, i give learners space aswell because i know what its like to be one

[FalconXR6]

Originally Posted by Rodp

I've made my mind up? Your claim was P plates are age discrimination. Explain to me how they are?



Unless you're infront of Fev. :P

My comment wasn't that "P plates are age discrimination" it implied that age discrimination is illegal in Australia unless your an insurance company...

It was also used as part of the arguement as to why I thought it interesting that the elderly are happy for younger people to be made to display P plates so that the public are aware of their skill shortages and restrictions, yet the elderly claim discrimination when the idea is suggested that they display E plates so that the public are aware of their skill shortages and restrictions.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

My comment wasn't that "P plates are age discrimination" it implied that age discrimination is illegal in Australia unless your an insurance company....

May as well claim they also partake in sex discrimination and class discrimination.

Originally Posted by FalconXR6

It was also used as part of the arguement as to why I thought it interesting that the elderly are happy for younger people to be made to display P plates so that the public are aware of their skill shortages and restrictions, yet the elderly claim discrimination when the idea is suggested that they display E plates so that the public are aware of their skill shortages and restrictions.

They are? Have you taken a poll?

It's an experience shortage. P platers have not had time to experience sharing the road with other road users. Just look at Fev.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Fev

So all young people are naive? your full of it...

And no i didnt follow him the whole way flashing and tooting my horn, after the first 10 mins i got the shits with his/her(i think it was a her if i remember correctly with husband or whomever in passenger seat) erratic driving. Why the hell should i have to wait behind some moron who is driving the way they were and put myself in harms way? pah, too many people with political correctness shoved waaay to far up their noses

What harm were you put in?