Muscle Car Prices Rising Again - Stupidity

trippytaka · 24-11-2009, 08:59 PM

OK, so I am going to get smashed here by some... but I honestly don't believe that any Aussie Muscle Car is worth a million bucks. We saw what has happened to the market since the GFC - XY GT Phase IIIs aren't even clearing for 400k.

So, anyway, it looks like prices are on the rise. I say, be careful... just like houses, if you pay too much, you'll get burned. And it looks like prices are about to strt jumping again. Here's my report from the weekend.

AUCTION REPORT

Iggypoppin' · 24-11-2009, 09:10 PM

"aren't even clearing 400k"... I think 400k for an aussie muscle car is incredible..

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 09:11 PM

Why does it matter what you pay for them? Some people are prepared to pay what it takes for the love and enjoyment of these rare classics.
People who buy cars purely as investments are fools...

hendrixhc · 24-11-2009, 09:13 PM

If my XE hits $150k its gone and i am retiring

trippytaka · 24-11-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76txcoupe

"aren't even clearing 400k"... I think 400k for an aussie muscle car is incredible..

The AREN'T EVEN part was in relation to the person who paid 750k for a phase three only a year and a half ago before the crash.

The point being that paying that kind of money is ridiculous. Absolutely crazy!

I'm also massively jelous because it's priced people like me out of the market completely... replica XY GTs, built to GT spec (from bases) have been reportedly valued at 100k. I mean, come on! Ten years ago you could pick up a replica GT for $6k, and a genuine phase 3 would set you back 50k.

Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy... or maybe I'm looking at it like housing prices; there's a bubble there that could pop.

FPV+fteT3 · 24-11-2009, 09:33 PM

If you buy the right car you can enjoy it for what it is and possibly make a few dollars when you sell it but to buy a car with the intention of it becoming worth heaps of cash in a few years is very risky. The first think to consider is do you really want to own one and then how much are you prepared to pay for that privilege. Even a collectors car rarely used will require $$$$ to simply maintain it as is.

Mr X · 24-11-2009, 09:40 PM

Supply and demand?

Every year there are fewer original Muscle cars left and the mystique about these cars grows- as does demand .
If you look at the UK market for RS/BDA Escorts and RS Capris and the US market for classic Mustangs and Cougars the same thing applies...on the up,as economies recover
Watching the Classic Adelaide with a bunch of car nuts young and old-The comment was made-"Old cars felt and sounded fast when you stuck the boot in"-and THATS the appeal-the "theatre" of the musclecar....and of course the tough body shapes,shakers,scoops,stripes and sounds.

It costs what it costs...................

Auslandau · 24-11-2009, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

OK, so I am going to get smashed here by some... but I honestly don't believe that any Aussie Muscle Car is worth a million bucks. We saw what has happened to the market since the GFC - XY GT Phase IIIs aren't even clearing for 400k.
if you pay too much, you'll get burned

I dont know of any that have sold at or near 1 mill. But if one does, good luck to the buyer and seller. It would mean that the buyer wanted it and the owner accepted the price ..... win win. If anyone buys a car .... and they love it ... and they can afford it .... then they have never ever paid too much. Supply & demand. It gets annoying if someone says .... "Did I pay too much for this XB"?

Those that buy these things will NEVER get burned IF they buy because of a passion and have the money to back their enthusiesm. If they buy to make money ..... refer below but those days are gone and was a period that lasted a very short time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Why does it matter what you pay for them? Some people are prepared to pay what it takes for the love and enjoyment of these rare classics.
People who buy cars purely as investments are fools...

I agree .... BUT .... if you can pick one up at the right time and price, unlike 97% of other cars, they shouldn't devalue and that in itself is a huge bonus.

| [/url] |

tezxr8man · 24-11-2009, 09:53 PM

if you look at the prices for say a all original unmolested GT500 then you look at a phase 3 you can understand the value a little more. they made thousands of GT500's and a max of 300 Phase 3's. then have a look at the equivelent cars in the states, your cobra's and GT40's and BB corvettes and see what they're worth, without even looking to europe. sure you may not look at them as in the same league but they are the best we have and at a mill they are still a bargain jus remember if you put a ferrari and a phase 3 round say Bathurst at the end there would be nothing in it
I actually remember a test in a wheels mag from the late 70's where they put a HO agains the current Ferrari with 7 years between them and the ferrari was only 3 tenths a lap in front

GT0132 · 24-11-2009, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trippytaka

The AREN'T EVEN part was in relation to the person who paid 750k for a phase three only a year and a half ago before the crash.

The point being that paying that kind of money is ridiculous. Absolutely crazy!

I'm also massively jelous because it's priced people like me out of the market completely... replica XY GTs, built to GT spec (from bases) have been reportedly valued at 100k. I mean, come on! Ten years ago you could pick up a replica GT for $6k, and a genuine phase 3 would set you back 50k.

Maybe I'm just getting old and grumpy... or maybe I'm looking at it like housing prices; there's a bubble there that could pop.

I agree there....A lot of us would love one of these old classics but the prices people have paid have priced the average enthusiast right out of the market.

In any case I could think of better things to do with my hard earned.While I'm not too badly off, I don't have a spare Mill laying around to splurge on a 40 year old car that would,in all probability, sit in the garage gathering dust and require security not unlike Fort Knox to ward off potential thieves.

I never took a liking to the XT/XW/XY's when they were released and 40 years on don't think I ever will, but respect the opinions of those that do like them - after all they are an iconic piece of Australian and New Zealand motoring history which can't be denied. Bathurst Monaro's are another story ---pure class IMO but then the prices they are going for are still crazy.

Unfortunately for those that aspire to own one of these classics, I feel the recent downward slide is/was only temporary. They will recover well and be fetching top dollar again soon I believe.

Out of interest does anyone know what type of individuals are buying these cars at such high prices?....Is it high net worth lawyers/doctors looking for a good investment ? or is it real car enthusiasts spending their childrens inheritence?

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 10:20 PM

My friends who have musclecar collections are 35-45 yo successful small business owners with a passion for musclecars and excess disposable income.. They own their collections outright.
I have 4 friends with P3's who fit this description. the GFC didnt effect them at all, none of them are interested in selling so relative market values mean nothing to them.

GT0132 · 24-11-2009, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

none of them are interested in selling so relative market values mean nothing to them.

Yeah but hypothetically it would be damned heartbreaking to have forked out say $300k (using $300 for the sake of a number) only to learn that, a year later, your purchase is only worth, say $200k...on any asset for that matter , not necessarily a car you're passionate about

XR Martin · 24-11-2009, 10:25 PM

Spending $400k on an XY GT is probably better economical sense than say spending the same on a Aston Martin DB9

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Yeah but hypothetically it would be damned heartbreaking to have forked out say $300k (using $300 for the sake of a number) only to learn that, a year later, your purchase is only worth, say $200k

Look at share values.. they will return and grow over time, you only loose money if you sell during a slump!!

MO · 24-11-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

I agree there....A lot of us would love one of these old classics but the prices people have paid have priced the average enthusiast right out of the market.

In any case I could think of better things to do with my hard earned.While I'm not too badly off, I don't have a spare Mill laying around to splurge on a 40 year old car that would,in all probability, sit in the garage gathering dust and require security not unlike Fort Knox to ward off potential thieves.

I never took a liking to the XT/XW/XY's when they were released and 40 years on don't think I ever will, but respect the opinions of those that do like them - after all they are an iconic piece of Australian and New Zealand motoring history which can't be denied. Bathurst Monaro's are another story ---pure class IMO but then the prices they are going for are still crazy.

Unfortunately for those that aspire to own one of these classics, I feel the recent downward slide is/was only temporary. They will recover well and be fetching top dollar again soon I believe.

Out of interest does anyone know what type of individuals are buying these cars at such high prices?....Is it high net worth lawyers/doctors looking for a good investment ? or is it real car enthusiasts spending their childrens inheritence?

The last P3 I heard of went to bloke in Emerald Qld and from memory was either a cotton farmer or trucking owner. He was adding to his already sizable collection and paid just shy of the magic million.

GT0132 · 24-11-2009, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Look at share values.. they will return and grow over time, you only loose money if you sell during a slump!!

Sure but I, like a lot of others, cringed when I looked at my FY2009 super fund statement...Not something I shrugged off as a minor life event.

pottery beige · 24-11-2009, 10:32 PM

The over inflated market spurned on the dodgy little cottage industry of fake's, re-shell's etc alot of really rough one's soon became really nice one's real quick. Big dollar's were to be made and now big dollar's are at risk if purchasing as there are plenty of these not quite right muscle car's out there.. IMO it's BS that alot of every day people have been priced out of the market.. And for the record i'm not a rich dude, i picked up my XA's for peanut's back when you couldn't give the old bomb's away..

4Vman · 24-11-2009, 10:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Sure but I, like a lot of others, cringed when I looked at my FY2009 super fund statement...Not something I shrugged off as a minor life event.

You only lost money if you need to access your super!!!!!!, otherwise ride it out and they will recover.

irish2 · 25-11-2009, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Sure but I, like a lot of others, cringed when I looked at my FY2009 super fund statement...Not something I shrugged off as a minor life event.

2009 resulted in 10% down for my fund. 2007 20% up, 2008 20% up. It isn't a loss unless you make it one. Can't forget the good times when recalling the bad ones.

BENT_8 · 25-11-2009, 12:15 AM

You cant really gauge anything on auction results, it only takes a couple of fools who cant stand to see the other win and up she goes.
17k whilst seemingly high is nothing compared to what some cars go for.
Without knowing the buyers situation, it is quite plausible to conclude that they couldn't afford much more and so paid whatever it took within their budget to get their bum in the seat.
As said, there aint that many to chose from.

There will always be people prepared to buy up cheaper classics, entry level, but the days of million dollar pricetags are long gone.

xy500 · 25-11-2009, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

Yeah but hypothetically it would be damned heartbreaking to have forked out say $300k (using $300 for the sake of a number) only to learn that, a year later, your purchase is only worth, say $200k...on any asset for that matter , not necessarily a car you're passionate about

well if you bought the car for love of the car, not its monetary value. You wouldn't care at all what anyone else thought it was worth. If you view cars as assets your just confused

Geez Louise · 25-11-2009, 12:30 AM

I dont get this whole Muscle car price thing...

We have a so called "Muscle car" and I own it because I love it. It is now part of the family. I wouldnt sell it tomorrow no matter what was offered....yeah ok...over 50k I would.

..but paying over 200k for a muscle car? Are people still doing that?

I guess it really is a supply and demand thing and how badly you want to relive your teenage years or memories of what these cars meant to you.

Wally · 25-11-2009, 12:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT0132

.....I never took a liking to the XT/XW/XY's when they were released and 40 years on don't think I ever will, but respect the opinions of those that do like them - after all they are an iconic piece of Australian and New Zealand motoring history which can't be denied. Bathurst Monaro's are another story ---pure class IMO but then the prices they are going for are still crazy.

.....?

Sure the Monaro's were a sleek beautiful looking car, but the HO had menacing presence. My three favourite looking Oz cars in order : XYHO, XU-1, Monaro. Second Tier would be the R&S Series Valiant and the XP Coupe. Can't fathom the prices people are paying though.

justbrett · 25-11-2009, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Spending $400k on an XY GT is probably better economical sense than say spending the same on a Aston Martin DB9

Clarkson would likely disagree

metalmania · 25-11-2009, 01:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MO

The last P3 I heard of went to bloke in Emerald Qld and from memory was either a cotton farmer or trucking owner. He was adding to his already sizable collection and paid just shy of the magic million.

That wouldn't be a red one from Melbourne, would it?

MO · 25-11-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metalmania

That wouldn't be a red one from Melbourne, would it?

@metalmania,I think it was but I'm not 100% sure.

merlin · 25-11-2009, 08:50 AM

I have a close relative who at the time paid one of the highest prices on record for a Phase 3. I can say without a doubt that he dosn't really care what it cost - he just wanted it, and I highly doubt he would care if its worth $1000 tomorrow. He just added to his collection of old Fords. I must say though it does get regularly driven and enjoyed and does not just collect dust.

Most of these sorts of people are highly successful businessmen - $1mil means to little to them - he told me once "what else am I going to do with my money, can't take it with you?"

XWGT · 25-11-2009, 10:36 AM

On a good note however American muscle is dirt cheap and the combination of the GFC and the exchange rate at the moment I think is taking some demand away from Aussie muscle as people choose HEMI or BOSS over GM and Ford Au.

**Polyal** · 25-11-2009, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XWGT

On a good note however American muscle is dirt cheap and the combination of the GFC and the exchange rate at the moment I think is taking some demand away from Aussie muscle as people choose HEMI or BOSS over GM and Ford Au.

This is very true, I spent some time on ebay.com last night and damn, so much value over there.

As for over priced falcons, if we all had the disposable income to that extent im sure we would do the same. But I still shake my head, its just a falcon with stripes! No one other than the Oz market even relatively cares about them.

I do however agree that this situation has made restoration etc for others alot harder. People ask stupid money for parts or anything with the GT name associated with it. That is one of the reasons while for now Im going the XE (or XD route). But even then ESP's are on the way up, $30-50k for good ones FFS.

edit: not a ford but still cheap as, http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1979-...item4cec2c0125

Brand is now dead, one if its more famous cars for $10kUS + freight.

302 XC · 25-11-2009, 10:49 AM

its all HORSES FOR COURSES (PUN NOT INTENDED),people are critisised for spending THEIR good hard CASH on MUSCLE CARS of their choice but thats their choice wat they do with their money ,(people spend 50k-75K plus on new cars that depreciate 50%with in 2-3 years )people dont wince about THAT, do they, MONEY SIDE, MUSCLE CARS ARE SEEN AS INVESTMENTS TO SOME ,like WATERFRONT HOUSES as for 1 mill for PHASE 3 ,(IT WOULD BE IMMACULATE),IF YOUVE GOT IT WHY NOT ,CANT TAKE IT WITH YOU (mentioned above)30 million for water front house now thats STUPID