Ford Cooks Up A Counter Attack..

[csv8]

Ford cooks up a counter-attack



21 July 2006

James Stanford

Ford has locked in a Commodore counter-attack, with the Blue Oval preparing an updated Falcon model to counter the new Holden VE Commodore.

It won't be a big modification, but it is expected the BF II model will have styling changes to match the mechanical updates from last October. There could also be content additions in response to the Commodore.

Ford Australia president Tom Gorman would not comment on whether the Falcon would be given a styling tweak or upgrades. "I think it will be better to have a conversation next month," he says.

Ford will be one of the first customers of the VE Commodore, buying some cars to examine exactly what its main rival has come up with, but Gorman already has an opinion on the car.

"Frankly, they're really catching up to what we did at BA (2002), if you want to be honest, so we'll see what kind of effort they put into that," Gorman says.

Ford has already locked in part of its response, but is waiting to see what Holden does before it signs off on the final detail of its counter attack.

"We have to see what they do. The simple answer is I don't know where they're going to price it," Gorman says.

"My guess is the car's getting heavier, fuel economy's going to deteriorate -- there's going to be more cost in the vehicle. That's my guess just from what I know about."



Gorman admits the new Holden will make life tougher. "It's going to be a very challenging time. I wouldn't want you to think we're so arrogant that we're not paying attention to this," he says.

He is adamant the one thing Ford will not do is a Mitsubishi 380-style price cut to keep Falcon sales moving.

"If you come in and hack the price out of your offering all you're doing is killing the residual value. And when you have a lot of lease and fleet business, and some rental buy-backs you're killing yourself if you do that."


The Daily Telegraph

[Smoke Pursuit]

Funny how they hacked the price of the BA II when the BF came out, you could buy an XR6 for $33,000 drive away, if thats not hacking resale values then I dont know what is, but then again I guess they have to sell cars some how.

[rodderz]

Tom's got a good head on his shoulders, he's certainly been more than up to the job after Geoff Polites left for Europe and a good head of the Australian operations.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by csv8

"Frankly, they're really catching up to what we did at BA (2002), if you want to be honest, so we'll see what kind of effort they put into that," Gorman says.

"If you come in and hack the price out of your offering all you're doing is killing the residual value. And when you have a lot of lease and fleet business, and some rental buy-backs you're killing yourself if you do that."

Looks like Ford also feel the same as a lot of us do...

[EFFalcon]

i thought pricing for the VE has been released?
and it's actaully not more thent he VZ?

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by EFFalcon

i thought pricing for the VE has been released?
and it's actaully not more thent he VZ?

Pricing has been released, its a clever charade of model swapping, if you take the pricing on face value it looks like a discount, if you look deeper for model/feature alignment its a different story.
To keep pricing the same is in my opinion discounting anyway.
Most manufacturers use a model upgrade as an opportunity to increase price and make a value statement about their product.
Manufacturers normally discount lower spec or run-out models, and ask a "premium" for increase for the new "better" model.
In my opinion their pricing sends a confusing message.
I expect Ford will introduce a price rise at the next update, remember Ford sell more cars to the private sector than Holden do.. Holdens sales number advantage is through fleet sales/export.
IMO they've positioned themselves slightly different to each other, Ford are happier to sell less entry level vehicles but at a greater profit where as Holden have a geared infustructure around volume and fleet sales at lower margins.

[BA_Turbs]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Pricing has been released, its a clever charade of model swapping, if you take the pricing on face value it looks like a discount, if you look deeper for model/feature alignment its a different story.
To keep pricing the same is in my opinion discounting anyway.
Most manufacturers use a model upgrade as an opportunity to increase price and make a value statement about their product.
Manufacturers normally discount lower spec or run-out models, and ask a "premium" for increase for the new "better" model.
In my opinion their pricing sends a confusing message.
I expect Ford will introduce a price rise at the next update, remember Ford sell more cars to the private sector than Holden do.. Holdens sales number advantage is through fleet sales/export.
IMO they've positioned themselves slightly different to each other, Ford are happier to sell less entry level vehicles but at a greater profit where as Holden have a geared infustructure around volume and fleet sales at lower margins.

I'm not meaning to sound rude here (even though it probably will); but how do you know this? I never realised and makes for food for thought. Also, what do you mean by if you look further into the model and feature allignment its a different story? Does this mean the options are expensive? (ala BMW/Merc; base car is $X then options are a fortune). I am not arguing here, just wanting more information I s'pose. Interesting post.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

Funny how they hacked the price of the BA II when the BF came out, you could buy an XR6 for $33,000 drive away, if thats not hacking resale values then I dont know what is, but then again I guess they have to sell cars some how.

Its called runout pricing. Everybody does that to clear stocks of the old model. He's refering to not cutting prices of the new model, just like Mitsubishi did within 3 months of the 380 being released.

[XRated]

Originally Posted by rodderz

Tom's got a good head on his shoulders, he's certainly been more than up to the job after Geoff Polites left for Europe and a good head of the Australian operations.

I agree. He's very switched on and I'm confident that he's well and truly on top of the next Falcon (although like he said, they're only catching up ).

[VSSII]

When they released the BA the AU's were run out for prices that could only be described as insulting to current AU owners. One of many reasons why Falcons and Commodores depreciate like a lead balloon compared to similarly priced euros and jap cars (except maybe Camry's! So bland!)

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Its called runout pricing. Everybody does that to clear stocks of the old model. He's refering to not cutting prices of the new model, just like Mitsubishi did within 3 months of the 380 being released.

What like the BF SR which was released about 5 months into the BF program?

To be honest Ford is just as bad as anyone else when it comes to discounting.

[Iphido]

not as bad a mistsubishi. And they have learn from the El. Where you could buy a base model EL sedan for ~$18,000 new.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by LSTerritoryGhia

What like the BF SR which was released about 5 months into the BF program?

To be honest Ford is just as bad as anyone else when it comes to discounting.

Value packs are introduced to keep sales ticking over. As the price isn't slashed just extras added it helps keep the resale values up as technically they aren't discounting them, just adding extra stuff for nothing. They have talked about this in the past as they would rather add free stuff than cut the price. If it helps move more cars than why not, Holden have even gone as far as launched with a value pack for the VE Omega, that's a pretty desperate move.

[4Vman]

There's a big difference between discounting a superceded run-out model or offering a mid model "special" with free extras to discounting a BRAND NEW model off the bat....

[Bluehoon]

Of course Ford / FPV will update.

Sorry but that told us absolutely nothing, apart from the god damn obvious.....

Anyone have some decent info?

Like, Torque and power from Boss to increase to what?

A VE SS will give a GT a lot of curry...... out:

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by VSSII

When they released the BA the AU's were run out for prices that could only be described as insulting to current AU owners. One of many reasons why Falcons and Commodores depreciate like a lead balloon compared to similarly priced euros and jap cars (except maybe Camry's! So bland!)

just like what Ballarat Holden can offer at the moment: BRAND NEW VZ Exec for $25888 + $1400 dealer fees DRIVE AWAY.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by csv8

Ford has locked in a Commodore counter-attack, with the Blue Oval preparing an updated Falcon model to counter the new Holden VE Commodore.

Why don't the journalists refer to Holden as the 'Red Circle'??? Irritates me.

FF

[myxr6]

Will stability control be standard in the BF11 as int he crappadore ?

[McobraR]

Originally Posted by carsales

This explains why so many manufacturers appeared to lose power and torque in the Euro III changeover at the start of 2006. Holden's figures have all been brought into line with ECE measurements including V6 models.

Current HSV figures are measured using the DIN system so that the difference between the current Z-series 297kW claim and Holden's latest 270kW figure is not as high as the raw numbers suggest. This explains why the new SS V appears to post such outstanding performance figures for such a relatively modest claimed output.

HSV is expected to bring its figures in line with Holden's ECE measurements at the August launch of its new VE-based range. This will create a similar situation where HSV's relatively small increases in claimed power and torque figures will be matched by some rather more outstanding performance figures.

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...w/1924919.aspx

So will the bf2 use ece measurements? Plus i thought Holden/HSV were already using the ECE measurements, with ford using the DIN? seems like the author of that article has no idea what he's talkin about, or am i the wrong one?

[Des]

Originally Posted by McobraR

http://editorial.carsales.com.au/car...w/1924919.aspx

So will the bf2 use ece measurements? Plus i thought Holden/HSV were already using the ECE measurements, with ford using the DIN? seems like the author of that article has no idea what he's talkin about, or am i the wrong one?

I think your right. Holden fans like to point that out all the time, until you point to the rwkw results performed back to back not supporting their arguement fully...."Fords 290 is more like 280-285 because it's DIN" (implying Holden's power advantage is actually more than quoted from factory)....

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by myxr6

Will stability control be standard in the BF11 as int he crappadore ?

No.

FF

[jimmy_c]

Originally Posted by Des

I think your right. Holden fans like to point that out all the time, until you point to the rwkw results performed back to back not supporting their arguement fully...."Fords 290 is more like 280-285 because it's DIN" (implying Holden's power advantage is actually more than quoted from factory)....

in the motor mag in o5. they tested various BA/VZ cars.

exec/xt

xr6t/ss

gt/clubsport

all of the ford cars produced more rwkw than the holden counterparts with similiar or same power.

[StookEB]

so does this mean that the SS V power is actually higher? and will Ford be changing to this system?

[Black XR6]

I doubt Ford will be changing to a system that on paper makes their cars look like they lost power between models.