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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 231
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So the press continues to stay families dont want to buy sedan's and want to buy SUV's.
Looking to update a territory Turbo Ghia so when I do a quick scan of the market, 1. remove $70K plus vehicles 2. 7 seats 3. Has real 3 seats across the back for a family of 5 4. capable of a family of 5 doing comfortable long distance (2000K +) trips The choices are remarkably slim 1. Toyota Kluga - higher priced on feature for feature comparison, drive train is getting pretty dated and has the driver engagement of watching paint dry 2. Mazda CX9 heavy on fuel, dated drive line 3. Ford territory best in class on space and long distance comfort but engine choice is lacking on performance and the total package is dated 4. Kia/Hyundai at best 2.5 seats across the back so fails on space of a family of 5 5. Izuzu MUX/Holden Colorado off road capability but based on truck platform gives more 4x4 comfort than SUV. still pretty narrow across back seat 6. Nissan Pathfinder. dated drive train poor fuel economy So if the market is really gone this way why are manufactures not jumping over them selves to deliver vehicle's with SS commodore/XR8 style performance and space in SUV format ? |
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#2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: ACT
Posts: 968
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MU-X auto fitted with an on road spring/shock package or decent shocks at least. Reliability and fuel efficiency.
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#3 | ||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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I would say requirements 3 & 4 are subjective.
3) is dependent on who you're fitting into the back. We fit 2 adult males of average (below 6 ft) height in the back seat of a Territory on our trip to Perth. I wouldn't have put a third person, not enough room. 4) Define comfortable? Who for, both passengers and driver? Any of the listed cars are more than capable.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#4 | ||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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SUV covers quite a large number of vehicles. A lot more than what you've mentioned there.
Also how does 7 seats relate to a sedan |
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#5 | ||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
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Because it seems the majority of buyers want "compact" SUV's that have all the latest gizmos. They want the "look" of a 4WD product in the size of a corolla. What you have listed would seemingly fit the bill perfectly for the majority of buyers and then some.
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Old RIDE 2006 BFGT Gone but not forgotten New RIDE 2018 AMG Mercedes A45 Angry AWD assassin
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#6 | ||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,030
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I don't understand the SUV/Dual Cab craze:
The small "SUV" brigade: - Slower than their hatch counterparts - Use more fuel than their hatch counterparts - Still SFA room in the back seats - Handles worse Then you have things like the Territory: Same deal vs Falcon IMO, slower, uses more fuel (unless you opt for Diesel), etc. Even our "Thailand Special" dual cab utes: The tray/tub is now too small to be useful The back seats are too cramped to be useful The only dual cab utes that make sense are F series sized, you can actually fit 5 fat ****s like me in them comfortably and the tray/tub is still large enough in dual cab config to be useful. Then you weigh up the single cab variants, they ride poor, the only benefit to them vs Falcon ute is diesel engine. *flame suit on* |
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#7 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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Quote:
Quote:
If you can Sacrifice the 3rd Row wait for a Ford Edge Sport
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______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#8 | ||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,523
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A Jeep Grand Cherokee ticks all those boxes bar the 7 seats. Quiet, comfortable, wide, so fits 3 across the back easily. high on the gadget count Good on trips, I did 1300+ km last weekend.
That said the new Everest is released shortly and ticks all of your boxes. Why not have a look at one them?
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Oooh baby living in Miami....
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#9 | |||
Now Fordless
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Fremantle, WA
Posts: 3,611
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Quote:
Its more of a lifestyle thing. Smaller SUVs lose some of the size but have more useable space than a sedan. All modern cars handle pretty well these days for normal street duty. Most of my friends drive 4wd utes now. They are always regularly 4wding, camping, fishing or carrying something around. Also its not often people drive around with 5 fat guys |
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#10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,094
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SUVs form 33% of the market or 350k sales this year. Appears they are out there somewhere.
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#11 | ||
Wirlankarra yanama
Join Date: May 2006
Location: God's Country
Posts: 2,103
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I would widen to mid sized 4x4's, diesel Prado being 1st choice. Your resale will be a lot better on a second hand Prado than a SUV. If you're into risk, then Jeep awaits you.
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#12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
AussieCJ7, if it helps, here is a compilation of internal measurements I got together during my own search for an under $70,000 SUV. I've included wheelbase as a rough indicator of leg room but it depends on how well designed the interior is. Wheelbase: Jeep Grand Cherokee 2915, Nissan Pathfinder 2900, Mazda CX9 2875, Ford Territory 2843, BMW X3 2810, Audi Q5 2807, Toyota Prado 2790, Toyota Kluger 2788, Mitsubishi Pajero 2780, Holden Captiva 2707, Hyundai Santa Fe 2700. Internal width at front seats: Territory 1548, Pathfinder 1541, Q5 1527, Santa Fe 1508, Mazda 1508, Kluger 1506, Jeep 1491, X3 1483, Pajero 1482, Captiva 1424, Prado 1369. ** Internal width at second row seat: Pathfinder 1534, Territory 1528, Kluger 1513, Q5 1494, Mazda 1490, Santa Fe 1480, Jeep 1474, X3 1458, Pajero 1451, Captiva 1422, Prado 1369. Headroom front: Territory 1074, Pajero 1056, Pathfinder 1043, Q5 1043, X3 1033, Kluger 1033, Captiva 1026, Santa Fe 1006, Mazda 1005, Prado 970, Jeep 960. Headroom rear: Pajero 1017, Kluger 1013, Territory 1006, Captiva 1003, X3 994, Santa Fe 992, Q5 990, Mazda 990, Pathfinder 977, Jeep 961, Prado 790. (Bear in mind that Territory and Pathfinder have theatre seating, which has view advantages for second-row passengers but the headroom is a little less.) Cargo (behind second row in litres): Prado 621, X3 550 (without net, even more with), Q5 540, Territory 523, Santa Fe 516, Mazda 487, Pathfinder 450, Captiva 430, Jeep 412, Kluger 396, Pajero not known. Here is a comparison of kerb mass (tonnes). In reverse order because lighter is better!: Captiva 1.64, Santa Fe 1.72-1.83, X3 1.73-1.8, Q5 1.77, Kluger 1.95-2.02, Mazda 1.96, Territory 1.96-2.14, Jeep 2.0-2.32, Pathfinder 2.04, Pajero 2.25, Prado 2.43. Funnily enough, the Jeep Grand Cherokee doesn't seem to tick all the boxes! It will be interesting to add figures for the Everest to this when they come out. |
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#13 | |||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Quote:
His requirement is too vague, "..Has real 3 seats across the back for a family of 5." What are real seats, is it the third seatbelt good enough or does it need to fit 3 fat bastards? Requirement 4 fits into this too, if you need to fit 3 adults for a long journey then shoulder width and leg room would need to be accommodated, whereas 3 toddlers won't need so much.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 815
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Quote:
1. With a ute i can throw the kids bikes, wet sports gear, Surfboards, the dog (If we had one) ect in the back and only wash it out with a hose. 2. Sit up higher, (Mainly cause everyone has a 4wd or Hilux, So sitting in my commodore i cannot see round them) 3. Towing, i can tow pretty much anything at anytime, no matter the surface. 4. Friend have 300 acres near Goulburn, so we can hang out down there and not worry about bottoming out or having to leave the car at the front gate and getting them to pick me & kids up 5. My SV6 commodore is so low (Factory not changed) that the front bar is all scuffed from the parking stoppers in shopping centers. 6. A good trip to bunnings and i can put in timber , cement and anything else in the back and the roof racks and roll bar allow good size lengths. 7. Speed humps and roundabouts are optional, unlike my commodore where they slow me right down. Last edited by something wrong; 22-05-2015 at 01:53 PM. |
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#15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
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#16 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Heading thru Hell (Corner)
Posts: 8,190
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Quote:
__________________
Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#17 | |||
Donating Member
![]() Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Heading thru Hell (Corner)
Posts: 8,190
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Quote:
I really fail to understand why so many people on this forum struggle with the idea that just because something does or doesn't suit you means that it will or won't suit everyone else!
__________________
Labels are for jars, not for people. Life is a journey, not a destination. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Daily: 2013 FGII EcoLPi in Winter White Play: 2015 FG X XR8 in Emperor Show' N Shine thread Gone, but not forgotten: 2015 SZII petrol Titanium Territory in Emperor |
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#18 | ||
Render unto Caesar
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: ::1
Posts: 4,221
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Fiat Freemont is also a 7 seater, not a fantastic car but has the room.
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"Aliens might be surprised to learn that in a cosmos with limitless starlight, humans kill for energy sources buried in sand." - Neil deGrasse Tyson |
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#19 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 1,204
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Quote:
The limitation in your selection criteria is your requirement for 7 seats which of course is a necessity in your case. Remove that and the choice opens up massively and that's where the majority of buyers typically are I would suggest. As for interior widths, i've got a GC (1,491mm in back seat) which although poorly packaged internally compared to the Territory (1,548), it's still able to fit a chunky child seat (2 side mounted cup holders) in the middle and accommodate 2 adults in comfort so width is not an issue for me and I dare say, not for many SUV buyers neither given the amount of smaller SUV's on the road. I would have loved to have waited for the Everest, but needed something 6 months ago, if I was you, i'd definitely be waiting to see what it has to offer mate. |
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#21 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,087
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Quote:
SUV is a far more versatile vehicle, long trips with 5 people, no problem short trips with 1 person, no problem Need to move some furniture, no problem Sedans are also great, generally go a bit quicker, handle a bit better (all things equal), more fuel efficient, but are limited in what they can do. thats why families buy SUVs. |
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#22 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 7,854
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To note most 7 Seaters Territory included are only useful for kids.
The only one in The OPs list that does have an adult suitable is the Pathfinder I wouldn't call the driveline dated its a new CVT which is actually not that bad. and it has pretty good economy too. so maybe look at the current model.
__________________
______________________________ 2015 Territory Titanium RWD Diesel - SOLD 2016 BMW X5 xdrive 30D Msport Seadoo Challenger 210SE 310HP |
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#23 | ||
Banana
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Wandin North, VIC
Posts: 2,031
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My GC carries the 5 of us comfortably. My kids are 16, 14, and 11 and manage it.
Yes our old Terri was wider and it fitted child seats well, but they're not a requirement now.
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2024 Ford Ranger Wildtrak V6 w/PP 2012 WK2 Jeep Grand Cherokee Overland CRD |
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#24 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,621
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i got a 100 series landcrusier because the falcon was getting knocked around to much on the roads out here. but also, i tow horse floats , so a 3.5 ton tow/cap is good. and top line diesel motor, that can handle truck/low grade diesel, prox. 10l100km. licensed to carry 8. doesnt ride like a truck. its big, but ive had it in under building car parks in sydney. all seats fold or come out. i love this car. but if thats not your thing, i would look at jeep gc, there specs are very good imo. 8 speed auto, diesel option with heaps of power, and bells and whistles. nice styling. i will be looking at one when the time comes.
where are they? theres heaps in S.W Sydney |
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#25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,127
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Quote:
Something like a spare room at home. Any of the cars you mention will do the job ( they are not much worse space wise from Territory you own now) . High performance SUV is a bit of oxymoron as they sell on practicality, flexibility and comfort. Turbo Terry was on sale for 4 years only. Big and tall SUV don't really make a good platforms for performance cars - even big$$ Cayenne ,X5 etc are compromised when compared to equivalent sedans/wagons. If you want to regularly transport 7 people in comfort best solutions are dedicated people movers - I like Multivans and Vianos and get a used perfomance car for fun. |
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#26 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,030
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Quote:
People mover, such as new Kia Carnival. |
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#27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,393
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Quote:
Last edited by FlipXW; 22-05-2015 at 06:46 PM. |
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#28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: On The Footplate.
Posts: 5,086
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Had both our sons in the back of our Triton dual cab...one 6'3 the other 6'2, and big blokes with it. No problems.
Oh, and I think there's way to much emphasis on "an exciting drive". You won't get it...there has to be trade offs. When we got new tyres for our Triton, they were about an inch taller than standard. No biggie. The tyre guy warned us that we "might feel some tyre squirm if you go too fast into corners on a twisty road". I replied "You...DO realise it's a big four wheel drive, and not an SS Commodore...? Flogging it down a twisty bitumen road isn't really high on my list of priorities..." He sighed and said "You'd be surprised the number of people we get in here actually demanding we do something to give their fourbie or SUV the handling of something like that...I don't think they get it..." Last edited by 2011G6E; 22-05-2015 at 06:49 PM. |
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#29 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
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#30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,876
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Kia Carnival is brilliant. Diesel would be the pick.
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