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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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#1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,334
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Just read this news on carpoint. I've seen it mentioned a few times that you can't have TC/DSC and gas coz it'd backfire. Am I the only person who thinks this implies that there's a new gas system coming out for the Falcon next year?
http://carpoint.com.au/car-review/2970254.aspx |
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#2 | ||
Bear with a sore head
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 3,701
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It's either incorrect or it's incorrect. It won't get DSC with the old LPG system and it won't get a new LPG system with only a year and a half of life left in the I6 (from 1st Jan 09).
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#3 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,463
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If an engine has petrol injection, then it can have LPG injection. An system fitted to an I6 can easily be reconfigured to work on a V6.
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#4 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Going by the current emissions laws it would have to be Euro 4 emissions compliant, and I can't see Ford going to the effort of emissions compliance for such a short amount of time.
All development on the I6 was cancelled last year. The only thing I can think of is if somehow they have modified the DSC/TC to work with the current system. |
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#5 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 2,504
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hhmmm.... well there's something being prepared... ;) and it's not only engines...
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#6 | ||
jornsmith
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: in the gutter
Posts: 144
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hi guys. for those of us who don't know, why can't the lpg system be paired with dsc/tc?
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#7 | ||
AWD Assassin
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,170
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Well my understanding is that the LPG by passes the Injectors in a standard VAPOUR LPG system.....( as opposed to a SVI LPG system )
TC / DSC works by cutting fuel to the engine via injector / spark cut out when it senses slip / traction loss etc. By cutting engine power , the TC / DSC can work to regain the cars balance / traction loss issues. The issue with LPG systems that bypass the injectors, is that with TC activated, the car doesn't realise that the LPG is still flowing into the cylinder ( bypassing the injectors ). In doing so, you get a build up of unburnt LPG in the cylinder. Guess what happens when the TC is deactivated after the car thinks it has regained traction and starts firing the cylinder again ..................BOOM. Current SVI LPG systems overcame this issue...........or so I was led to believe ??? |
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#8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,395
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Quote:
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#9 | |||
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Quote:
Shutting off the injectors on a T/B injected system wouldn't do a great deal. |
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#10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
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Quote:
Regards, Dave
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PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there. |
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#11 | |||
Guest
Posts: n/a
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Quote:
What exactly did they strengthen on the e-gas motors? Was it simply the valve and valve seats? |
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#12 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
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Quote:
Quote:
Regards, Dave
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PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there. |
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#13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,334
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Quote:
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#14 | ||
King of the Fairy's.
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: CeeeeeTown.
Posts: 5,093
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Should be optional, I miss having the ability to do backfires
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#15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
Anyway, great to see someone else pick up on it! ie if it DSC then it gets a Direct Injection gas system! Here's hoping the system is liquid injection!
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#16 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,334
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Quote:
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#17 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Newcastle
Posts: 3,246
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Quote:
My point was that I couldn't believe that most people including Go-Auto, who are without doubt the most comprehensive industry writers didn't pick up what you and I did from the DSC statement! ie DSC means that the LPG system will be updated. The more I think about this, the more likely that Liquid Injection will be on the agenda. The reasoning is that Ford had an agreement with a Melbourne company to use their SVI LPG system, but Dutch firm Vaille and their local distributor, Boral?, got into a legal fight over who owned what technology. Unfortunately, this dragged out from 2005, meaning that Ford was left with the ring-mixer unit, and those two fighting groups got nothing which is what they deserved for stuffing Ford up plenty. From what I hear, those two still haven't sorted the issues, so Ford will go the newer system and steal a march on Holden and Toyota who both use Denso SVI.
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BA2 XR8 Rapid M6 Ute - Lid - Tint -18s 226.8rwkW@178kmh/537Nm@140kmh 1/9/2013 14.2@163kmh 23/10/2013 Boss349 built. Not yet run. Waiting on a shell. Retrotech thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...1363569&page=6 |
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#18 | |||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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Quote:
There can be no way they have a new LPG system, I think having a DSC/TC system that uses nothing but the brakes and fore goes a spark cut may be the solution, or maybe they have come up with some way to cut the gas flow while the DSC/TC system is activated. All I6 development work finished last year, so there is no chance of a different LPG system for the I6. |
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#19 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,334
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Well whatever happens, I just hope they have something good for when V6 comes.
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#20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Perth, Western Australia
Posts: 2,296
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Quote:
Holden use IMPCO-BRC Sequent 56 systems for the Commodore and Toyota uses Landi Renzo systems for the Camry and Aurion. Regards, Dave
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PoweredByCNG: Sick and tired of all the ignorant 'gas is crap' comments out there. |
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#21 | |||
Getting it done.....
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 2,219
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Quote:
Do you have any inside knowledge on this LPG issue phillyc??? If Ford goes to the latest system, isn't that pointless if they are retiring the engine in 18months of the upgrade happening?? If they were to 'stockpile' the I6 LPG engines they couldn't use them after June30 2010.....because of emissions regs. Unless the LPG engine would meet these standards???? Assuming some delay between the V6 coming on board and the LPG version being available (would be a big job introducing and entire new engine line up, turbos included) Ford might want to keep some I6s going.... This could work for them...interesting... |
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#22 | ||
Peter Car
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: geelong
Posts: 23,145
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After reading the GoAuto article with the comments from Bill Osbourne, he said that E Gas will get a version of DSC. Somehow they have made them compatable, there will be no upgraded injected LPG system.
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#23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Shoalhaven
Posts: 3,161
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Quote:
What's the pollution issues with e gas engines? What pollutants compared to a petrol engine? |
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