Hydrogen xr6t motor

Gaz · 09-10-2009, 04:35 AM

Saw this at a conference in Melb this week, being done by one of the uni's.

Wouldn't tell me any specifics about consumption or boost figures other than they are at comparable power levels.

Thought it just might be of interest to some people here so throwing photos up. It's essentially stock with new pistons to run ~12.5:1 compression.

Also there was something they are about to start some work on. It will be using standard petrol injection, however it will be hydrogen ignition. Petrol is injected as usual, however a small amount of hydrogen is injected into the spark plug cap (shown in photo) and then ignited, which in turn ignites the petrol. They weren't overly forthcoming with large chunks of information on their expectations but sounds interesting.

I asked them if they had tested the limits but alas no the softies aren't interested in pushing limits at this stage.

:

JPFS1 · 09-10-2009, 09:36 AM

I believe they've been working on this for a few years... Monash iirc??

ltd · 09-10-2009, 09:56 AM

Good to see that an Aussie motor is being the guinea pig. If they are getting the gains that they have stated getting, surely this will attract a much wider audience in the international motoring community.

Fairlane · 09-10-2009, 10:50 AM

Gotta love Australia, only in Oz could Uni researchers working on a Hydrogen motor drink Beer in the lab.

Looks very interesting though, first ive heard about it.

Paxton · 09-10-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JPFS1

I believe they've been working on this for a few years... Monash iirc??

Yep. Monash.

With the I6's stay of execution, you could almost say that it is future proof.

mikestp · 09-10-2009, 11:53 AM

Hopefully this helps set a hydrogen powered future, rather than an electric future

Franco Cozzo · 09-10-2009, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikestp

Hopefully this helps set a hydrogen powered future, rather than an electric future

Then end up in an even worse "global warming" situation then we are facing now? Water vapor holds in much more heat than CO2.

Disclaimer:

I don't support global warming.

tezxr8man · 09-10-2009, 09:51 PM

didnt ford donate a few motors to monash a couple of years ago for these types of experiments?
Its good to see people trying something other than electric, all the crap that goes into makin it and the batteries probably make as much enviro dramas anyway
Someone mite know more than i do about this but aren't ford in the states running hydrogen v10's in the f-trucks in some of the airport buses over there too?

S3SR · 09-10-2009, 10:13 PM

ford made their superchief run on 3 different fuels, diesel, biodiesel and hydrogen iirc
V10 goodness and save the planet

i should have finished engineering at uni, we made our own FSAE car and thought that was exciting.

**SSD-85** · 09-10-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

Then end up in an even worse "global warming" situation then we are facing now? Water vapor holds in much more heat than CO2.

Disclaimer:

I don't support global warming.

Water vapour is also an elevated temperature substance of, you guessed it, water. Once it condenses due to exposure of cooler conditions it turns back into water.
I wonder what clouds are made of...?

:

CO2 on the other hand, stays in its current form unless extreme temperatures are applied. It also takes a rather long time for CO2 to dissolve in the oceans and eventually take part in the formation of limestone.

Yes true it is a greenhouse gas, but it is also MUCH easier for the atmosphere to break down back into water.

phillyc · 09-10-2009, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

Then end up in an even worse "global warming" situation then we are facing now? Water vapor holds in much more heat than CO2.

Disclaimer:

I don't support global warming.

You've rather neatly forgotten that combusting petrol creates water vapour too... Loads of it.

For every 2 Petrol (C8H18) molecules you add 25 Oxygen (O2) & the result is you get 16 Carbon Dioxide (C02) & 18 Water (H2O) & 10.86MJ of energy.

Hydrogen will most likely be made the way it usually is now. Electrolysis. 2 water (H20) molecules are broken down into 2 Hydrogen (H2) & 1 Oxygen (O2). When Hydrogen is burned it then becomes H20. Back to where it started.

Yes energy is required to make it, to store it and transport. But petrol is not much different, but instead of making it, we drill for it.

Hydrogen is already one of the most common industrial gases anyway.

So, you perhaps should be more worried about water vapour from petrol. Besides it condenses in the end anyway. But yes, that newly formed water will have the ability to store heat.

madmelon · 09-10-2009, 10:31 PM

Wow look at those lambda numbers.... nothing below 1! Lambda 3.5 is 52:1 equivalent to 52:1 AFR on petrol!

phillyc · 09-10-2009, 10:35 PM

Well. What a great piece of engineering by the Monash boys and a terrific motor to base it off! Go the mighty injected hydrogen turbocharged Falcon 4 litre in line six!

madmelon · 09-10-2009, 10:41 PM

...and now look at that torque value at peak efficiency. 125Nm at the flywheel is pretty abysmal for a turbo 4L- even the older 4L engines are over 250Nm at idle with WOT.

madmelon · 09-10-2009, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

You've rather neatly forgotten that combusting petrol creates water vapour too... Loads of it.

For every 2 Petrol (C8H18) molecules you add 25 Oxygen (O2) & the result is you get 16 Carbon Dioxide (C02) & 18 Water (H2O) & 10.86MJ of energy.

Hydrogen will most likely be made the way it usually is now. Electrolysis. 2 water (H20) molecules are broken down into 2 Hydrogen (H2) & 1 Oxygen (O2). When Hydrogen is burned it then becomes H20. Back to where it started.

Yes energy is required to make it, to store it and transport. But petrol is not much different, but instead of making it, we drill for it.

Hydrogen is already one of the most common industrial gases anyway.

So, you perhaps should be more worried about water vapour from petrol. Besides it condenses in the end anyway. But yes, that newly formed water will have the ability to store heat.

Actually, the overwhelming majority of current hydrogen production is by catalytically removing it from hydrocarbons...

The remaining carbon is either captured (if in CO2 form, which it may well be) or burried (solid form)

**SSD-85** · 09-10-2009, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

Actually, the overwhelming majority of current hydrogen production is by catalytically removing it from hydrocarbons...

The remaining carbon is either captured (if in CO2 form, which it may well be) or burried (solid form)

Correct

phillyc · 09-10-2009, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

Actually, the overwhelming majority of current hydrogen production is by catalytically removing it from hydrocarbons...

The remaining carbon is either captured (if in CO2 form, which it may well be) or burried (solid form)

I stand corrected.

I knew they were looking at using fuel cells to rip hydrogen from hydrocarbons to generate electricity, didn't know that was being industry wide for hydrogen production.

Bossxr8 · 10-10-2009, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tezxr8man

didnt ford donate a few motors to monash a couple of years ago for these types of experiments?
Its good to see people trying something other than electric, all the crap that goes into makin it and the batteries probably make as much enviro dramas anyway
Someone mite know more than i do about this but aren't ford in the states running hydrogen v10's in the f-trucks in some of the airport buses over there too?

I think its a 3 way tie up between Ford, Monash and the Vic government. Ford provided engines and some funding.

Franco Cozzo · 10-10-2009, 10:32 AM

Haha well looks like I got shut down, I'm basing my knowledge on year 11 environmental science (which we all dropped). Though, I heard an interesting fact while we're on global warming, humans contribute a huge 3% to all greenhouse gasses, volcanoes and fires do much more than what we can. How true that is, I don't know but its worth bringing up.

MRFGXR6 · 10-10-2009, 11:49 AM

Count me in on one if it ever reaches the consumer market. Will be much better than the petrol based I6 and the oil companies can then jam their ever escalating fuel prices where the son doesn’t shine. This is the way the Aus government should be going as well, not just with the electric based slot cars. If I could get my hands on Fords US based Hydrogen powered supercharged V10 and slot it in the FG I would be a very happy man indeed. Kill two birds with one stone, plenty of power and please the do-gooders of today’s society.
Well only time will tell.

Danman · 26-10-2009, 10:00 PM

Check the site. www.hydrogenboostnow.com making them ready to go.
Love to know if anyone has fitted one on a Territory. I'm not game to be the first, but it all seems to be the way of the future.

Iggypoppin' · 26-10-2009, 10:27 PM

I know nothing about hydrogen fuel at all so I'm going to ask the ignorant questions: does hydrogen burn in the combustion chamber the same as fuel/air vapor? As in, is it squirted in via an injector, then ignited, or...? Like I said I'm confused and ignorant. Does the energy produced from hydrogen burning equal that of petrol if you burned the same quantity of each fuel? This thread has definetly got me curious.

**SSD-85** · 26-10-2009, 11:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 76txcoupe

I know nothing about hydrogen fuel at all so I'm going to ask the ignorant questions: does hydrogen burn in the combustion chamber the same as fuel/air vapor? As in, is it squirted in via an injector, then ignited, or...? Like I said I'm confused and ignorant. Does the energy produced from hydrogen burning equal that of petrol if you burned the same quantity of each fuel? This thread has definetly got me curious.

From what I have read, yes hydrogen will theorectically burn in a combustion chamber. The problem is delivery. Also as far as im aware, Hydrogen produces less energy than petrol of equivalent mass.

EDIT: But in saying that, H1 burns more efficiently. Since next to no by-products are produced, unlike petrol which creates all sorts of by-products. Thus more went into the energy than into the "leftovers".

GTP 290 · 26-10-2009, 11:10 PM

This will never reach the public consumer market. Oil companies make to much money to allow something like this to slip through and cut them off. There have been so many people in the past that have succsesfully designed and built hydrogen powered cars where all you have to fill your tank with is water. Then miraculously they either dissapear, die or in the case of Stan meyer (google him), gets assasinated.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but it seems as though the knowledge and ability has been around for many many years yet no one has ever brought out a car that can be run purely on water.

Iggypoppin' · 26-10-2009, 11:13 PM

public revolt against petrol companies sometimes seems a good idea at times......sigh.

**SSD-85** · 26-10-2009, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP 290

This will never reach the public consumer market. Oil companies make to much money to allow something like this to slip through and cut them off. There have been so many people in the past that have succsesfully designed and built hydrogen powered cars where all you have to fill your tank with is water. Then miraculously they either dissapear, die or in the case of Stan meyer (google him), gets assasinated.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but it seems as though the knowledge and ability has been around for many many years yet no one has ever brought out a car that can be run purely on water.

What a day that would be. We can still have the lovely rumbling of burning gases and all we produce is water vapour and nitrous oxide...

Ill hand in my license the day im forced to drive an electric car. :togo:

Iggypoppin' · 26-10-2009, 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

What a day that would be. We can still have the lovely rumbling of burning gases and all we produce is water vapour and nitrous oxide...

Ill hand in my license the day im forced to drive an electric car. :togo:

it'll be a loooong time before that, but i'd be topping myself if it did come to that.

does anyone agree with this theory?

oil companies are investing heavily in alternative fuels, while "silencing" any private sector that comes up with the technology first, so that when the time comes to begin the phase out of oil(exponential # of years, as we don't know how long the oil will really last) they can immedietly prop themselves up on an alternative fuel and thus not "go under"?

Spanrz · 26-10-2009, 11:38 PM

Isn't Hydrogen a slower burning substance than petrol?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scotty85

Ill hand in my license the day im forced to drive an electric car. :togo:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVv0NVLFPig

Still beg to differ? Potential is there.

**SSD-85** · 27-10-2009, 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spanrz

Isn't Hydrogen a slower burning substance than petrol?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVv0NVLFPig

Still beg to differ? Potential is there.

Yes I do. Im well aware of electric potential. Power is not the reason for my comment. I enjoy the noises of big, lumpy, inefficient internal combustion engines. Silly as that seems...

MGR · 27-10-2009, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP 290

This will never reach the public consumer market. Oil companies make to much money to allow something like this to slip through and cut them off. There have been so many people in the past that have succsesfully designed and built hydrogen powered cars where all you have to fill your tank with is water. Then miraculously they either dissapear, die or in the case of Stan meyer (google him), gets assasinated.

I'm no conspiracy theorist but it seems as though the knowledge and ability has been around for many many years yet no one has ever brought out a car that can be run purely on water.

Nobody has ever successfully designed and built hydrogen powered cars where all you have to fill your tank with is water.

Stan Meyer was a convicted fraudster.

Nobody has ever brought out a car that can be run purely on water - because it is impossible.

Google "First law of thermodynamics"