Why so few old Falcons remaining compared to Commodores?

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

They actually made 467,558 HQ's, it was the best selling model Holden ever made, the next closest was the EH with 256,959, I still see a fair few good HQ's around

I believe that the VE Commodores surpassed the HQs build total. I don't have exact figures, but around 350,000 were sold in Australia with another 170,000 exported. That's approximately 520,000 in total.

Dr Terry

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I believe that the VE Commodores surpassed the HQs build total. I don't have exact figures, but around 350,000 were sold in Australia with another 170,000 exported. That's approximately 520,000 in total.

Dr Terry

I didn't include the Commodore as its origins were European, but yes they made a lot of VE's

I think most Holden figures are what were sold in Australia, they sold knock down kits to South Africa too

[portokatsiki]

Yesterday I went for a drive from Melbourne to Echuca and back. I saw no less than 8 AU falcons/fairmonts in aii body variants. I only saw 1 vy commodore. AUs have certainly outlasted by miles the same era commodores.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by portokatsiki

Yesterday I went for a drive from Melbourne to Echuca and back. I saw no less than 8 AU falcons/fairmonts in aii body variants. I only saw 1 vy commodore. AUs have certainly outlasted by miles the same era commodores.

A year ago I drove out to Narrabri to go to Mt Kaputar and the number of Falcons in the country outnumbered Commodores like 4 to 1.

And the Falcons were in good condition, a lot of FG series I saw.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

I didn't include the Commodore as its origins were European, but yes they made a lot of VE's

I think most Holden figures are what were sold in Australia, they sold knock down kits to South Africa too

Not so !

While Earlier Commodores were European based to varying degrees, by the time you get to VE, the body/chassis is 100% Aussie designed & built. The drivetrains are mostly US units. I doubt that you would find anything Euro in a VE or VF.

Much like the Falcon, early ones were very US-based Then less so by XA & even less so by XF. EA onwards doesn't have much US left in in them. AU onwards nothing left.

Also all Holden build figures include all overseas built units, because they were CKD packs. The packs were made here then exported & they knew the exact numbers.

Dr Terry

[Citroënbender]

I thought big end bearings on the Falcon sixes remained a constant?

As to the VE, weren’t the locks (Huf) a German company?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Not so !

While Earlier Commodores were European based to varying degrees, by the time you get to VE, the body/chassis is 100% Aussie designed & built. The drivetrains are mostly US units. I doubt that you would find anything Euro in a VE or VF.

Much like the Falcon, early ones were very US-based Then less so by XA & even less so by XF. EA onwards doesn't have much US left in in them. AU onwards nothing left.

Also all Holden build figures include all overseas built units, because they were CKD packs. The packs were made here then exported & they knew the exact numbers.

Dr Terry

It's funny how when we were younger, we never thought of the earlier Dunnydores as a real Aussie, just a tweeked Opels.
I think this, and the the fact they looked so much smaller than the HZ was why quite a few buyers went to the Falcon.

I can remember at the time all the advertising going on about the interior space being superior in the XD and not loosing space from the the previous XC.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Not so !

While Earlier Commodores were European based to varying degrees, by the time you get to VE, the body/chassis is 100% Aussie designed & built. The drivetrains are mostly US units. I doubt that you would find anything Euro in a VE or VF.

Much like the Falcon, early ones were very US-based Then less so by XA & even less so by XF. EA onwards doesn't have much US left in in them. AU onwards nothing left.

Also all Holden build figures include all overseas built units, because they were CKD packs. The packs were made here then exported & they knew the exact numbers.

Dr Terry

The pre-VE Commodore is on the GM V series platform, Opel Omega

For the VN the platform was stretched and widened, bigger engines put in to suit our market and compete with the Falcon as a 'full sized' car.

VE Onwards is an all Australian design.

The benefit of the Commodore using drivelines and electronics from GM is that all the diagnostics are well developed on the automotive aftermarket because of the US, the Commodore got OBDII and the GM implementation of it, you can read a surprising amount of data and get codes directly from the ECU/BCM and ABS module on my VSII Caprice with a modern scan tool, it will give you live data no dramas.



Thats a live data readout from my Caprice when it had its factory ECU - thats amazing for a car from the mid 1990s with microwave spec electronics.

The Falcon is an electronic orphan, unique to Australia/NZ, so the aftermarket diagnostics are well and truly lacking in comparison to what you can do to Commodores with a scan tool in the workshop, all the way right back to a VS.

The AU Falcon adopted the OBDII plug but had its own unique protocol.

[MFL]

In late 2023, when I used travel regional NSW for work, there were plenty of AU and BA/BF Falcons around west of the Great Diving Range, not so much in the coastal areas, and I thought I now know where all the older Falcons went.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The pre-VE Commodore is on the GM V series platform, Opel Omega

For the VN the platform was stretched and widened, bigger engines put in to suit our market and compete with the Falcon as a 'full sized' car.

VE Onwards is an all Australian design.

Basically correct, although the 1st generation Commodore (VB-VL) was an Opel Rekord/Senator combination with Holden drivetrains, then the VN-VS was a widened Omega-A with Holden drivetrains. Then the VT-VZ was a widened Opel Omega-B with our drivetrains.

Dr Terry

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Not so !

While Earlier Commodores were European based to varying degrees, by the time you get to VE, the body/chassis is 100% Aussie designed & built. The drivetrains are mostly US units. I doubt that you would find anything Euro in a VE or VF.

.

Dr Terry

You would be surprised how many Euro componets are in the VE and VF Commodore.

To say the VE was totally 100% Australian designed and built is true in the fact it was assembled here, but there is a fair amount of it that is made in other countries not specificly for the VE but other GM cars around the world, a lot of the parts have the manufacturing country stamped on them and have other part numbers for other vehicles not sold here.

I have wrecked more VB-VF's than I have had hot dinners, I have seen where the parts are made and I was surprised how much of it actually came from Europe, I know they are based off the Australian Zeta platform which ilends itself to the 2010–2015 Chevrolet Camaro so it uses parts from Mexico.

But the Pre VE were all based off the European platforms, then they thought it would be a good idea to go back to the Euro stuff with the ZB, what a mistake that was.

The VE and VF was the best decision Holden had made since the end of the H series, but unfortunately it was too late, the ZB was the hammer pounding the last nail in the coffin.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

You would be surprised how many Euro componets are in the VE and VF Commodore.

To say the VE was totally 100% Australian designed and built is true in the fact it was assembled here, but there is a fair amount of it that is made in other countries not specificly for the VE but other GM cars around the world, a lot of the parts have the manufacturing country stamped on them and have other part numbers for other vehicles not sold here.

I have wrecked more VB-VF's than I have had hot dinners, I have seen where the parts are made and I was surprised how much of it actually came from Europe, I know they are based off the Australian Zeta platform which ilends itself to the 2010–2015 Chevrolet Camaro so it uses parts from Mexico.

But the Pre VE were all based off the European platforms, then they thought it would be a good idea to go back to the Euro stuff with the ZB, what a mistake that was.

The VE and VF was the best decision Holden had made since the end of the H series, but unfortunately it was too late, the ZB was the hammer pounding the last nail in the coffin.

I'm not saying that some VE/VF bits didn't come from Europe. What I'm saying is that by VE there was virtually no German/Opel design input. Most cars are built with parts from many countries.

The sad part about the ZB, was that it wasn't such bad a car. Sure it wasn't a real RWD Aussie Commodore, but as a FWD Euro car it was better than many of its peers.

Dr Terry