electronic rust protection???

[Kryton]

found this on Ebay and wanted to hear what those in the know have to say about it.
i for one know nothing which is why im posting this thread. yes i am sceptical but maybe there is something to it?
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/FORD-FALCON-G...QQcmdZViewItem

[RegSpec]

Ive seen anodes used on boats before to prevent corrosion but this is the first time Ive seen an "electric" device??? :lookedat:

[Redrum]

I have heard of them. I know some tint places sell them along with paint protection etc. I am rather skeptical of their use though.

[BAWagonWheels]

there are electronic rust protection devices out there but you really gotta do your homework on this, some just sends a current through the vehicle chassis so rust don't inhabit like moulds. others react with certain chemicals or components that stabilises rust condition from getting worst. my uncle has one, so far no complaints but its only been 2 months since he had it installed. we'll see the results a year or two down the track.

[Kryton]

so would this particular one be worth looking at?

[BAWagonWheels]

am also skeptical with stuff off ebay. sorry dunno?

[fiery]

Originally Posted by BAWagonWheels

my uncle has one, so far no complaints but its only been 2 months since he had it installed. we'll see the results a year or two down the track.

Can you tell us what one your uncle has?? I have heard differing opinions on this but have also been told it depends what you have installed...

But no-one has gone on to explain the differences..

Thanks

[Falcon Coupe]

I was talking to a car restoring business owner, he said he puts one of these into all fully restored old school cars and never expects to see them again.

[BAWagonWheels]

Protektor MV04 rust protection, works on the same principle as capacitive coupling... not sure how effective as yet but there's a good explanation on an american site, link here:

http://www.ruststopnorthamerica.com/...e-coupling.htm

[fiery]

Originally Posted by BAWagonWheels

Protektor MV04 rust protection, works on the same principle as capacitive coupling... not sure how effective as yet but there's a good explanation on an american site, link here:

http://www.ruststopnorthamerica.com/...e-coupling.htm

Thanks heaps for that..

Will be interested in hearing your uncles thoughts down the track....


**Now going to just have to get someone to explain all that tech stuff in simpleton terms :evil_laug

[Kryton]

Originally Posted by BAWagonWheels

Protektor MV04 rust protection, works on the same principle as capacitive coupling... not sure how effective as yet but there's a good explanation on an american site, link here:

http://www.ruststopnorthamerica.com/...e-coupling.htm

good link. sounds like unless there is constant water on the metal, it will not work.

[BAWagonWheels]

but works best when moist or water occurs and prevents further rust.

[Pedro]

A mate of mine introduced electronic rust prevention to Australia in the early 90's and I used to sell them for him. His system was made under licence from the original American inventor. His system (trade name ERPS) works. He has since onsold the business and there are now many copies on the market .. some work and some don't. ERPS is the only brand I can say definitely works, but be aware that it prevents rust ... it does not cure it.

[Dmax]

My feild of work is corrosion technology and I can tell you that unless your car is underwater, there is no electrolyte to allow the ionic transfer from an anode to the metal surface which is needed to prevent the corrosion process, hence they don't work, it's all snake oil.

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Dmax

My feild of work is corrosion technology and I can tell you that unless your car is underwater, there is no electrolyte to allow the ionic transfer from an anode to the metal surface which is needed to prevent the corrosion process, hence they don't work, it's all snake oil.

Exactly.
This reminds of why I watch Penn & Tellers BS program.

[thefargo]

thanx Dmax, it was looking too good to be true

[opto]

Being an Electrician I can agree that it is crap and desn't work, firstly the body has a negative charge running through it from the battery to start with.

If you have bare metal exposed to air it will oxidise.

If you introduce a charge it will not alter the oxidising process, only metal stabalized with a coating of paint and similar products,zinc or Galvanised will stop oxidisation.

Putting a current through two dissimilar bare metals when wet will also corrode eventually due to an electrochemical process called Galvanic Corrosion.

[Pedro]

Well Dmax, ltd and opto ... you are all wrong. It does work, it's just that you don't understand how it works. As you choose not to believe my post I suggest you contact any physics department of any university so they can explain the proven theory to you.

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by Pedro

Well Dmax, ltd and opto ... you are all wrong. It does work, it's just that you don't understand how it works. As you choose not to believe my post I suggest you contact any physics department of any university so they can explain the proven theory to you.

The reason I know it doesn't work is because I am a Corrosion Technologist, I have the good fortune to work with the Countries most recognised Corrosion Scientists and Experts. I oversee the design and installation of Cathodic Protection Systems and Have done so for many years. Once YOU understand the corrosion process and what is required to stop it then YOU will understand why it doesn't work.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Dmax

The reason I know it doesn't work is because I am a Corrosion Technologist, I have the good fortune to work with the Countries most recognised Corrosion Scientists and Experts. I oversee the design and installation of Cathodic Protection Systems and Have done so for many years. Once YOU understand the corrosion process and what is required to stop it then YOU will understand why it doesn't work.

Sorry Dmax, but your head is in the sand. Instead of blindly denying the technology, why don't you contact ERPS and ask to view the testimonials of hundreds of satisfied customers going back 10 years who have proved that it works.

Customers like the commercial mullet fisherman who was renewing his rusted out landcruiser every two years (caused by driving it into the sea to pull out his nets), and now only replaces it when a new model comes out. While you're at it ask yourself why every Surf Lifesaver Beach Inspector vehicle is fitted with one, why all coal mine vehicles are fitted with them etc., etc..

[mik]

i dont know which device was fitted but i remember reading about vehicles in salt mines that had a something along these lines to stop rust destroying them.

[Dmax]

Originally Posted by Pedro

Sorry Dmax, but your head is in the sand. Instead of blindly denying the technology, why don't you contact ERPS and ask to view the testimonials of hundreds of satisfied customers going back 10 years who have proved that it works.

Customers like the commercial mullet fisherman who was renewing his rusted out landcruiser every two years (caused by driving it into the sea to pull out his nets), and now only replaces it when a new model comes out. While you're at it ask yourself why every Surf Lifesaver Beach Inspector vehicle is fitted with one, why all coal mine vehicles are fitted with them etc., etc..

Yes I know all about ERPS and their claims which have been proven false many times over the years along with many of these companies, just ask any Corrosion Engineer. My Head is not in the sand. This is my Forte. I do know my buisness. I know what is needed to make such a system to work. You need an ionic transfer to occur at the protected surface. This can only be done through the presence of an electrolyte, such as salt water or soil. To protect a car, the entire surface must be evenly protected. If it is not even and is low, this will preferentially corrode out, such areas would be inaccessible areas such as crevises, welds, double skins etc. If the current is to high, acid will be produced, resulting in acid induced corrosion. With no electrolyte the ionic transfer will not take place. Current cannot be past over the paint work.
Fixing of anodes will only protect the metal at the point of contact.

By simply charging the body with a charge, will not prevent corrosion as there is no Ionic transfer.

[coyote]

Yes I understand that this is an emotive issue, and I have followed various systems for nearly 10 years when I was first introduced to ERPS when it was distrubited by RODE, was involced in feld studies with life safing vehicles used on the Gold Coast.

I have seen the effect of identical vehicles treated with standard wax based systems and the electronic, back to back. I have witnessed the effect on open stone chips that go black rather than redish , yes this is oxidization, but in a similar fashion to that of aluminium or Cast iron it protects the surface.

The good quality products back there own claims with extended warranties. (and cost more than the item as described on ebay) they are also designed for the size of the item and use of the item to be protected, it is not a one size fits all answer.

I do not believe any system which utilises sacrifical anodes will work on a motor vehicle unless you first submerge it in your swimming pool.

Dmax I appreciate your openness about your interests and qualifications, I can only say I have seen enough positive results to spend the money and fit it to my own car.

Yes the technology is now available through many different sellers, and I now offer the product as a part of my product range, a brief overview my be found on my web under paint and rust protection.

Any one interested Pm or e-mail me as I will not comment further on this thread. (unless prevoked)

[Dmax]

Just a couple of notes. Black corrosion on steel occurs when oxygen levels are lower than normal, indicating a surface prep may have been invloved. Also black corrosion, while it looks far less severe than red corrosion is still as damaging and can result in pitting corrosion, ie corrosion that is hidden under the surface and can create severe failures before any signs of corrosion damage are overally evident. It does not create a protective barrier similiar to aluminium, they are to different types of metals and do not relate in terms of oxides. Alum oxide is hard and resistant to oxygen, where as black or red corrosion are different forms of iron oxides which are porous and can accelerate the corrosion process.

Sacrificial systems and impressed current systems work the same way, only the impressed current system uses a power source to create a polarizing potential difference as opposed to the sacrificial system relying on the galvanic potential values of the anodes. If one won't work, neither will the other.

Also, modern cars now use different paint technologies such as potasium based primers which act as corrosion inhibitors. This means a car the may corrode out in 3-4 years may last twice as long before showing disturbing signs of corrosion.

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Dmax

Yes I know all about ERPS and their claims which have been proven false many times over the years along with many of these companies, just ask any Corrosion Engineer. My Head is not in the sand. This is my Forte. I do know my buisness. I know what is needed to make such a system to work. You need an ionic transfer to occur at the protected surface. This can only be done through the presence of an electrolyte, such as salt water or soil. To protect a car, the entire surface must be evenly protected. If it is not even and is low, this will preferentially corrode out, such areas would be inaccessible areas such as crevises, welds, double skins etc. If the current is to high, acid will be produced, resulting in acid induced corrosion. With no electrolyte the ionic transfer will not take place. Current cannot be past over the paint work. Fixing of anodes will only protect the metal at the point of contact.By simply charging the body with a charge, will not prevent corrosion as there is no Ionic transfer.

As I stated previously, you just don't get it do you Dmax. I'm not wasting my time debating you any further as your "corrosion engineer" expanded head is very obviously buried up your fundamental orifice.

[TZENU]

i can think of much better ways of spending my money

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by Pedro

As I stated previously, you just don't get it do you Dmax. I'm not wasting my time debating you any further as your "corrosion engineer" expanded head is very obviously buried up your fundamental orifice.

This style of post does you argument no favours, and only enforces my belief that the product is a sham

[Pedro]

Originally Posted by Laminge

This style of post does you argument no favours, and only enforces my belief that the product is a sham

You may choose to join Dmak in ignorance. All I can suggest is you read post 13 again. I'm not involved in that industry anymore so I don't care what you believe, and I'm not commenting on the subject any further.

[Dmax]

I have shown no ignorance in this matter. I have stated only fact. I checked up numerous sites that promote these devices of which none have any proven scientific evidence, and of which mosy have been closed by government authorities for fraud.
I have also found it difficult to find any detail explanations on how these systems work apart from static charges forming over the paint work of the car. Static electicity has no effect on corrosion activity, you need ionic transfer to achieve polarisation of the steel surface which is the reaction, and the only reaction which prevents the electrochemical process of corrosion.
I used to have an EA fairmont that was 12 years old with no signs of rust, My Holden Rodeo which spends 5 out of 7 days on the beach due to work, 4 years old, full of stone chips yet no rust. My 8 year old Maxima, no rust. This can be attributed to the corrosion resistant paints used on modern cars nowadays.

I don't mean to ruffle feathers, or upset people. One of the first things they do in any NACE acredited Corrosion Course is demonstrate why these devices don't work. NACE being the worlds most leading authority on Corrosion.

[Laminge]

Originally Posted by Pedro

You may choose to join Dmak in ignorance. All I can suggest is you read post 13 again. I'm not involved in that industry anymore so I don't care what you believe, and I'm not commenting on the subject any further.

Thankyou Dmax, there is a difference in between being ignorant and ignorance!