Things getting uglier in Europe - another assembly plant to close

Resurrection · 13-07-2012, 12:18 AM

http://247wallst.com/2012/07/12/the-...urope-worsens/

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/peu...ist=beforebell

aussie muscle · 13-07-2012, 10:07 AM

i had some trouble with that 247wallst site, so here's the gist
"Ford recently said its losses in Europe last quarter will be three times expectations. The recession that has spread across Europe is that bad.

"Peugeot announced it would close manufacturing facilities and fire 8,000 people. That brings total layoffs from recent downsizing to 14,000 people. The first plant closed will be near Paris, which is at the heart of Peugeot’s market geographically."

"General Motors will post more losses at its Vauxhall and Opel units, which will extend its string of losses by over a decade. The world’s largest car company is locked in a battle with local unions and governments about large factory and personnel cuts."

jpd80 · 13-07-2012, 10:50 AM

Europe will remain an economic wasteland until they sort out their current monetary woes.
At least Ford, GM and Chrysler can look towards growing profits in heartland USA.
An easing of fuel prices and improving US economy spells good profits at home for the Detroit three...(Well Fiat too I guess, LOL)

RASER · 13-07-2012, 10:58 AM

FIAT want to close plants and only have minor manufacture in Italy, its all to hard and they can save billions doing manufacture in other friendly Europe locations, the Italian unions break the balls of FIAT management with unrealistic demands, the unions will sink FIAT and this will flow on into all of Italy and then Euro and the whole of Europe if FIAT shut up shop in Italy, its a economic disaster waiting to happen

Nobody is buying new cars in Italy, Spain, and other EU countries, they are all a bit freightened for the future and holding onto there cash.

Just as well FIAT are going gang busters with Chrysler Group

Bit like the unions, greens, juliar, carbon-tax etc etc running this once great country down the toilet...

turbodewd · 13-07-2012, 11:33 AM

cmon RASER, things arent bad here....yet. i mean unemployment of 5.2% sounds okay.

EDManual · 13-07-2012, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RASER

FIAT want to close plants and only have minor manufacture in Italy, its all to hard and they can save billions doing manufacture in other friendly Europe locations, the Italian unions break the balls of FIAT management with unrealistic demands, the unions will sink FIAT and this will flow on into all of Italy and then Euro and the whole of Europe if FIAT shut up shop in Italy, its a economic disaster waiting to happen

Nobody is buying new cars in Italy, Spain, and other EU countries, they are all a bit freightened for the future and holding onto there cash.

Just as well FIAT are going gang busters with Chrysler Group

Bit like the unions, greens, juliar, carbon-tax etc etc running this once great country down the toilet...

Yep sounds a bit like here in Oz to be honest! Only mining is holding us up, which is also a problem as its keeping our dollar high.

new2ford · 13-07-2012, 12:11 PM

It's funny reading this thread as I travel the main routes between the Czech Republic and Germany weekly and the rail and road are filled with either huge car-trains or truckloads of Skodas and Hyundais/Kias (also manufactured in Czech Republic) heading west. Czech Republic and Slovakia are now producing more than a million cars a year and the growth isn't slowing. These two manufacturers in particular are the only ones showing growth in the largest European market, Germany. Don't believe everything you read in the press!

http://www.czechtradeoffices.com/d/d...automotive.pdf

I keep thinking I'm seeing Falcons and I realise they're Mondeos! The Mondeo is a big car. I haven't driven one but if it drives as well as a Skoda/VW I think the Falcon's days are numbered. I can see what Ford is doing by stealth in Australia! I can also see from Europe that the problem with Ford and Holden in Australia is the "near-enough, she'll be right" rather agricultural manufacturing quality. People don't accept that in world markets nowadays. But this is a little OT sorry. The point is that I don't see Europe going down any car gurgler anytime soon - nothing remotely comparable to the Australian mess.

FPV GTHO · 13-07-2012, 12:23 PM

Places like Czech Republic and Romania are the Mexico of Europe though. When you see them slow down it'll really mean something.

new2ford · 13-07-2012, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Places like Czech Republic and Romania are the Mexico of Europe though. When you see them slow down it'll really mean something.

That's a strange analogy. In what sense?

sgt_doofey · 13-07-2012, 04:58 PM

The Peugeot story can be found here: http://www.theaustralian.com.au/busi...-1226425028260

FPV GTHO · 13-07-2012, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

That's a strange analogy. In what sense?

Lower standard of living so cheaper labour and resources. All the euro manufacturers are flocking there like the Americans went to Mexico.

new2ford · 13-07-2012, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Lower standard of living so cheaper labour and resources. All the euro manufacturers are flocking there like the Americans went to Mexico.

Romania to some degree but this is only a minor factor in Czech Republic and Slovakia where it is more an issue of access to an established high-quality industrial tradition and a very skilled, experienced and educated workforce resulting in a high quality product. Quality is an underlying issue in competing with Asian imports and for Asian manufacturers themselves setting up in Europe.

I still see plenty of new German, French and Spanish cars on the road though. Italian and Swedish cars aren't so much in evidence any longer. British cars do they still exist? A few Landies but they're Indian now aren't they! There is a ginormous car fleet in Europe. The market can absorb some pruning and it will still survive. The Australian car industry is more a case of pruning the tree at the base unfortunately. A little more dire than the Euro scene.

mik · 13-07-2012, 07:33 PM

we are in the poo too i think, if it was`nt for mining sector we`d further down the gurgler than we are.

pauljh74 · 13-07-2012, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turbodewd

cmon RASER, things arent bad here....yet. i mean unemployment of 5.2% sounds okay.

You can made things look rosier if you play around with the definition of "unemployed"

GREGL · 13-07-2012, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pauljh74

You can made things look rosier if you play around with the definition of "unemployed"

Exactly, nail on head. In the area I work in the number of parked cars meaning workers cars has dropped dramatically. The volume of traffic has also dropped, this is not a hiccup, this has been going on for 3 mths. These people aren't catching public transport either. The trains used to be full of fluros, now it's jut the diehards left.
How anyone can say the unemployment rate is steady must be fudging. The mines can't be compensating that much. This is definatly the toughest period I've ever gone through in 30 years, and I have to wonder why. We as a country have been royally screwed by someone. Free trade agreements, unions, banks, big business, too early to blame the carbon tax? Whatever it is Australia is hurting at the moment and anyone I talk to agrees, and that is across a fairly wide spectrum of industries. From s/metal fabrication shops
engineering, hardwares, roofer companies, rural suppliers and the transport companies that deliver. All are reporting it's tight.
Let's hope that things turn around soon before too many get hurt.

nstg8a · 13-07-2012, 09:44 PM

the whole world is hurting financially, australia still has it very very good.

its the economy almost every other economy wants.

people worry too much. head down bum up, work hard and everything will be right.

Romulus · 13-07-2012, 09:50 PM

If you work 1 hour per week you are not recognised in the unemployment statistics. The unemployment figure is closer to 8% in Australia if the definition of unemployment is redefined to include those who work less than a standard working week.

Things are booming in WA tho

nstg8a · 13-07-2012, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

If you work 1 hour per week you are not recognised in the unemployment statistics. The unemployment figure is closer to 8% in Australia if the definition of unemployment is redefined to include those who work less than a standard working week.

Things are booming in WA tho

but why would you include those working a part time job? theyre not unemployed, theyre just not in a full time job.

Romulus · 13-07-2012, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

but why would you include those working a part time job? theyre not unemployed, theyre just not in a full time job.

No, these figures do not include part-time employees. I would not consider someone who works 1 hour per week part-time or fully employed. The minimum engagement rates under most awards is 3 hours per week.

MethodX · 13-07-2012, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RASER

FIAT want to close plants and only have minor manufacture in Italy, its all to hard and they can save billions doing manufacture in other friendly Europe locations, the Italian unions break the balls of FIAT management with unrealistic demands, the unions will sink FIAT and this will flow on into all of Italy and then Euro and the whole of Europe if FIAT shut up shop in Italy, its a economic disaster waiting to happen

Nobody is buying new cars in Italy, Spain, and other EU countries, they are all a bit freightened for the future and holding onto there cash.

Just as well FIAT are going gang busters with Chrysler Group

Bit like the unions, greens, juliar, carbon-tax etc etc running this once great country down the toilet...

They will just move production to Serbia or Poland. Like they did with the southern Italian factories.
The southerners dont want to work and sabotage the cars, they closed the factories.

nstg8a · 13-07-2012, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

No, these figures do not include part-time employees. I would not consider someone who works 1 hour per week part-time or fully employed. The minimum engagement rates under most awards is 3 hours per week.

yeah but first you say those working one hour a week, then say those working less than a standard working week.

which is it

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 Concorde

The unemployment figure is closer to 8% in Australia if the definition of unemployment is redefined to include those who work less than a standard working week.

new2ford · 13-07-2012, 10:57 PM

There are 730 million people in Europe, a slightly larger market than Australia, and some manufacturers like VAG are growing markets in China and India which have something well over 2 billion people. Not so much ugly as less beautiful. To reverse the analogy just think of it as trimming fat. The countries that perform poorly like UK and Italy might lose their industries but that production is relocated to another country that performs better.

The numbers of new cars sold in an economically stagnant Europe is vastly greater than the number of new cars sold in an economically thriving (taking others' words for it!) Australia.

BTW the cost of living in Australia is phenomenal. OK for those with good incomes (probably a minority). We find shopping in Germany, restaurants etc are less than half the price of Australian equivalents. Australia is super expensive but if that high average income isn't distributed fairly equitably, which it isn't, then that "wealth" is enjoyed by a minority. The majority struggle. I don't think incomes in Europe have such extremes.

MethodX · 13-07-2012, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

There are 730 million people in Europe, a slightly larger market than Australia, and some manufacturers like VAG are growing markets in China and India which have something well over 2 billion people. Not so much ugly as less beautiful. To reverse the analogy just think of it as trimming fat. The countries that perform poorly like UK and Italy might lose their industries but that production is relocated to another country that performs better.

The numbers of new cars sold in an economically stagnant Europe is vastly greater than the number of new cars sold in an economically thriving (taking others' words for it!) Australia.

BTW the cost of living in Australia is phenomenal. OK for those with good incomes (probably a minority). We find shopping in Germany, restaurants etc are less than half the price of Australian equivalents. Australia is super expensive but if that high average income isn't distributed fairly equitably, which it isn't, then that "wealth" is enjoyed by a minority. The majority struggle. I don't think incomes in Europe have such extremes.

Northern Italy performs ok, its the south thats the drag on the economy.

Bossxr8 · 13-07-2012, 11:37 PM

The biggest problem with auto manufacturing in Europe is massive over capacity, and the manufacturers are unwilling to make the hard decisions to shut plants and get it under control.

I applaud Peugeot for having the guts to do it. Maybe now that someone's been the first to bite the bullet the others may follow.

Resurrection · 13-07-2012, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

They will just move production to Serbia or Poland. Like they did with the southern Italian factories.
The southerners dont want to work and sabotage the cars, they closed the factories.

Serbia? They are only interested in making war with their neighbours.

MethodX · 14-07-2012, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Serbia? They are only interested in making war with their neighbours.

Yep, and the west helps the wrong side...

Zastava factory.

mik · 14-07-2012, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nstg8a

the whole world is hurting financially, australia still has it very very good.

its the economy almost every other economy wants.

people worry too much. head down bum up, work hard and everything will be right.

i think it`s less about our great economy and more that we have the resources of this huuge country, all 14 million kilometres of it used to prop up the economy of only 20 odd million people, anyone want to guess where we would be if Australia was the size of Victoria? .

wrongwaynorris · 14-07-2012, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

we are in the poo too i think, if it was`nt for mining sector we`d further down the gurgler than we are.

If it wasn't for the resources sector this country would be absolutely XXXXED and our brilliant federal government are doing their level best to drive mining offshore .

falconnut · 14-07-2012, 01:58 AM

Yikes, glad we are still in our econobubble from the early krudd days otherwise we could have ended up like other 1st world countries (England, Canada ect.)

I guess this means less people will buy euro as everyone seems to be buying Korean, Chinese and Aussie cars again (at least from what ive seen in qld vic and nsw)

new2ford · 14-07-2012, 07:34 AM

Another ugly development in Europe: bottles of Australian wine retailing for $20-30 in Australia selling in European supermarkets for $6-10. And why does the identical Tom Tom electronic map of central Europe retail for $60 in Czech republic, $70 in UK and $100 in Australia? Somebody's making nice money out of Australia that isn't being shared around! Who's looking ugly now?