USA: AAA warns against using E15

[aussie muscle]

stateside, fuel retailers have started selling E15 (15% ethanol) as it was recently approved by the EPA. Apparently this has caused a rush of claims due to the fuel damaging engines and components of user's cars. Ford and other car makers are now warning they will NOT honor warranty for damaged caused by use of E15. Triple A is warning people to not use it period.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/2000862202001/

[NickyN]

I haven't seen 15% ethanol fuel yet, 10% is the norm it seems.

For consumers willing to pay, non-ethanol fuel is sold in certain places now. I haven't tried it yet, but, think it's worth it? I'll try and get the prices the next time I fill up.

[Simple6]

Originally Posted by NickyN

I haven't seen 15% ethanol fuel yet, 10% is the norm it seems.

For consumers willing to pay, non-ethanol fuel is sold in certain places now. I haven't tried it yet, but, think it's worth it? I'll try and get the prices the next time I fill up.

I only buy non-ethanol fuel. The fuel consumption/economy vs cost/litre makes it more expensive to run E10. E15 would no doubt be worse.

[dieseltrain79]

Been running 100 octane fuel with 10% ethanol for over 4 years in my TT Soarer . Great on fuel , makes good power and runs the numbers ...

Oh and it's got 225,000 kms & still going strong . So it hasn't hurt the engine more the 1991 factory fitted fuel system parts .

I'll happily keep on using it

[2011G6E]

Never understood how it's more environmentally friendly to deliberately make your car use more fuel...

Not to mention ethanol is an energy-negative fuel that can only survive on government (read: taxpayer) subsidies...you can never get out of it as much energy as is put in to produce the stuff. It's a lie right from the start.

[excopau]

Thats a lie about the last statement, are you like RACQ who say no to anythign good for the economy farmers and making somethign renewable?

[Resurrection]

Not surprised to read this AAA warning. When we were designing fuel systems for E22 fuel, additional coatings were required - anodising, nickel plating etc.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Not surprised to read this AAA warning. When we were designing fuel systems for E22 fuel, additional coatings were required - anodising, nickel plating etc.

One of the online 'Can my car run on E10?' lists (I think supplied by the QLD Government or their Motoring Authority) oddly enough also listed E5 as well.

Some cars that could run E5 could not run E10. So, it is then safe to assume that it isn't 'just fine' to run E15 through a car that was designed to only go up to E10.

Wow... the stuff must really be corrosive if a jump of only up to 5% resulted in a large spike in fuel delivery problems.

[T4ME]

Many people are running E85 and aren't having any issues with corrosion etc.

My fuel economy didn't change going from 98 to E10 P100 from United.

When running E85 just make sure the fuel filter is changed every 10k and you will be fine.

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Many people are running E85 and aren't having any issues with corrosion etc.

My fuel economy didn't change going from 98 to E10 P100 from United.

When running E85 just make sure the fuel filter is changed every 10k and you will be fine.

If you are using anything greater than E10 on systems not designed for it, you run the risk of plastic and rubber fuel lines braking down. The increased ethanol percentage corrodes the plastics and rubber until they leak - not recommended. If the manufacturer states OK for E10 - then that is the limit. after that you are risking your vehicle becoming an external combustion engine.

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Never understood how it's more environmentally friendly to deliberately make your car use more fuel...

you're getting your greenie messages mixed up. ethanol isn't to save the environment, it's to push back the onset of 'peak oil' by using supplementary fuels (and to prop up corn producers)

[T4ME]

Originally Posted by Mad_Pom

If you are using anything greater than E10 on systems not designed for it, you run the risk of plastic and rubber fuel lines braking down. The increased ethanol percentage corrodes the plastics and rubber until they leak - not recommended. If the manufacturer states OK for E10 - then that is the limit. after that you are risking your vehicle becoming an external combustion engine.

Have you used the stuff?

Ford also rated their BA engines to handle allot less power than what some are putting through them.

It's funny how people write the "possible" negatives about ethanol but forget to write the positives all the time....using is understanding how it works.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Have you used the stuff?

Ford also rated their BA engines to handle allot less power than what some are putting through them.

It's funny how people write the "possible" negatives about ethanol but forget to write the positives all the time....using is understanding how it works.

Where is the positive in having a yield 70% that of petrol? Or being hygroscopic when petroleum is not?

It is great for lowering combustion temps and burning cleaner. Most cars need neither.

[geckoGT]

I think a lot of this will stem from people trying to run cars that are designed for a max of E10 on E15, thinking what's 5%.

I can not see how it will be bad for a flex fuel car designed to run up to E85.

[2011G6E]

Of course, it also helps if you don't mind the consequences...unseen of course...as you pump your heavily subsidised ethanol blended fuel into your car...
http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...632838545.html

US corn ethanol fuels food crisis in developing countries
The US ethanol programme pushed up corn prices by up to 21 per cent as it expanded to consume 40 per cent of the harvest

Record drought in the US farm belt this summer withered corn fields and parched hopes for a record US corn harvest, but US farmers may not be the ones most severely affected by the disaster. Most have insurance against crop failure. Not so the world's import-dependent developing countries, nor their poorest consumers. They are hurting.

This is the third food price spike in the last five years, and this time the finger is being pointed squarely at biofuels. More specifically, the loss of a quarter or more of the projected US corn harvest has prompted urgent calls for reform in that country's corn ethanol programme.

Domestically, livestock producers dependent on corn for feed have led demands for change in the US Renewable Fuel Standard (RFS), which mandates that a rising volume of fuel come from renewable sources. Up to now that has been overwhelmingly corn-based ethanol. In November, the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) will rule on a request for a waiver of the RFS mandate to reduce pressures on US corn supplies.

But US livestock producers aren't the only ones affected by shortages and high prices. The most devastating impact is on the poor in developing countries, who often use more than half their incomes to buy food. It also hurts low-income developing countries dependent on corn imports.

...cont'd...

[monte.b]

gee i thought our ethanol was made from sugar cane ,where do they grow all this corn in aussie

[ratter]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Many people are running E85 and aren't having any issues with corrosion etc.

My fuel economy didn't change going from 98 to E10 P100 from United.

When running E85 just make sure the fuel filter is changed every 10k and you will be fine.

some of the affects can be long term,
If your car runs in closed loop fuel control it has to use more fuel, no if's or buts,
When initially running E85 on a car that has a few years under it's belt, you need to change the filter every 1000 klms at first

[ebxr8240]

In U.S..I call B.S they have ethanol in there fuel for years.

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by T4ME

Have you used the stuff?

Ford also rated their BA engines to handle allot less power than what some are putting through them.

It's funny how people write the "possible" negatives about ethanol but forget to write the positives all the time....using is understanding how it works.

There is no doubt that the increased Octane rating of the fuel and the adaptive knock system within the BA Falcon could / will produce more power.

The issue is the Ethanol stripping plastisisers from the plastics and rubbers in the fuel system, eventually resulting in the fuel no longer being contained and spraying all over your hot engine, creating an external combustion engine.

Live fast - die young

[ratter]

the ford does not have adaptive spark, it is set and changes according to normal temp changes etc not with higher octane, it will pull spark though based on detection of a knock event.