VE 6.0L senator vs BA mk2 F6

[DENKO]

hi guys,
Just trying to settle an arguement before i go to the track, Whats quicker from factory in 400m, BA mkII F6 Typhoon manual or VE 6.0L senator auto?

cheers denko

[T3ts50]

Based on reviews in mags, I would have to say the Senator would be the quicker of the 2.

[Black F6]

Magazines also said my F6 would run 13's and it ran 12.3

But to answer your question, senator would run low 13's, so BA manual he may just get you

[Smoke Pursuit]

Senator runs the 6.2 motor... A tune and the F6 would win all day.

[05_ENFORCER]

Quicker from the factory will be the Senator auto


.

[blk6t]

Typhoon Auto in BF would be another story, but sorry the Senator in auto form would nip the F6.

But you can usually bluff it and make the excuse of traction problems etc etc haha

[FreddyDUZ747]

It seems some havent driven a 08 Senator,BA2 will take the cake all day.

Yes im a Holden bogan as well

[DENKO]

no the senator is running a 6.0L from factory, ve2's came out with the 6.2L,

[flappist]

Originally Posted by DENKO

hi guys,
Just trying to settle an arguement before i go to the track, Whats quicker from factory in 400m, BA mkII F6 Typhoon manual or VE 6.0L senator auto?

cheers denko

As stated above you are going to have problems launching. It is a black art with the manual F6. There is a very narrow sweet spot between bogging and spinning. If you spin you have to back off which will dump the boost and if you bog you will loose quite a lot of time.

You will also dump your boost at every gear change and while this is not huge it will cost you at least half a second probably more.

This is why autos are favoured by the drag/traffic light grand prix enthusiasts, they are just point and shoot and allow even the lowest skilled driver to look like the stig.

On the other hand if there are corners involved the manual is King.

[trbo 6]

I took my BA F6 manual out last night which supposedly had 360rwk, I could only manage a 13.0 @110mph 2.0 60foot.

The mph suggests the power is closer to 330rwk than 360rwk. So I think you'd be doing real well to get a low 13 in a stock F6!

[worm]

THE MPH suggests that it is 250-70rwkw...

Are you sure? I ran mid 12's with 330rwkw in a manual and 2.1 60 foot...

[DENKO]

trbo 6, that mile and that time seems like your car is fairly stock or just didnt know how to drive it...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by trbo 6

I took my BA F6 manual out last night which supposedly had 360rwk, I could only manage a 13.0 @110mph 2.0 60foot.

The mph suggests the power is closer to 330rwk than 360rwk. So I think you'd be doing real well to get a low 13 in a stock F6!

If you are talking stock BA2 F6 then you will be pedaling pretty hard to get below 14 consistently.

If you are racing you can't pull all the "ego stunts" like rolling back in the trap and ignoring the lights and launching when it is "just right".

When the pole turns green you go and the winner is the first across the line not the one with the highest mph/lowest ET.

[trbo 6]

It's not stock. It has a phase III APS kit on it. I'm going to get it checked out as the mph seemed low for the mods it has. I bought the car as is and the thing that has me thinking is the injectors are bosch 968's which I thought may have been drilled to get the power it was suggested the car has. But I'm thinking maybe they are standard 968's. I've started another thread so as to not clog this one up.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11360097

[Nic85]

What the car is capable of and what you can run at the strip are two different things.

I've been to Willowbank about 5 or 6 times before for Test n' tunes. Plenty of SS's, XR6T's, HSV's etc there. The HSV's mostly run high 13's / low 14's at about 103-105mph. SS's and XR6T's usually mid-high 14's at 100mph.

I think if you can get into the 13's consistantly you'll be doing well.

To answer the exact question, I would say the HSV would be slightly quicker down a quarter mile track due to the F6 being a manual. If the F6 was auto, I'd be going the other way.

[Miss_XR6]

Car can make the above times but if another 2 people are racing down the strip the times can change hence the other can can be quicker
it comes down to reaction times and how quick you shift between gears ect as well

[Nic85]

Originally Posted by Miss_XR6

Car can make the above times but if another 2 people are racing down the strip the times can change hence the other can can be quicker
it comes down to reaction times and how quick you shift between gears ect as well

Just aslong as we understand that reaction times have no influence on the elapsed time and that the reaction time reference was for getting to the finish line first, not getting the fastest time.

[trbo 6]

Originally Posted by DENKO

trbo 6, that mile and that time seems like your car is fairly stock or just didnt know how to drive it...

Hey Denko, come back after you've ran your car and let us know how good of a driver you are!

[Giant Cranium]

Originally Posted by DENKO

no the senator is running a 6.0L from factory, ve2's came out with the 6.2L,

more like ve1 update about mid way came the 6.2 so we will call it ve1.5

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by trbo 6

It's not stock. It has a phase III APS kit on it. I'm going to get it checked out as the mph seemed low for the mods it has. I bought the car as is and the thing that has me thinking is the injectors are bosch 968's which I thought may have been drilled to get the power it was suggested the car has. But I'm thinking maybe they are standard 968's. I've started another thread so as to not clog this one up.

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11360097

Still going to be facing an uphill battle on street tyres to keep up with the dunnydore. Many have 300+rwkw manuals that never dip below 14.0

[blackf6]

Ba f6 only has 270 flywheel kw mate no chance.

[Dave R]

My prediction... If you are a half decent driver it will be a close race with the senator taking the win by a car length or so

[DENKO]

Originally Posted by trbo 6

Hey Denko, come back after you've ran your car and let us know how good of a driver you are!

i reckon im pretty good, many moons i had a au falcon manual, stock as can be, i managed to run 15.04 @ heathcote, so ive got some indication on how to launch the manuals, its unlucky with the mods you've got to be running 13.0, have you got dyno papers to back you up?

[Cheech]

Originally Posted by teak81

Ba f6 only has 270 flywheel kw mate no chance.

I agree that the manual would loose on ET all things being equal.

However, saying that he has no chance as he only has 270fwkw is incorrect.

For example, the FG XR6T is rated at 270fwkw and the current top production HSV is rated at 325kw - a difference of 55kw.
However, peak torque is held from around 2000rpm in the FG. This allows the FG to be just as fast as, if not faster than the HSV. This is a simplistic way of looking at it as gearing, weight and mechanical grip also comes into the equation. Try overlaying a power curve of an HSV with an XR6T sometime, you'll see that the forced induction engine jumps to peak power rather quickly and stays there, dropping off at high revs as the turbo struggles to hold boost. Whereas the V8 is a rather linear affair.

Current best time (I believe) for an FGXR6T is 12.3ish with a K&N. I don't know of any stock HSV's that can go this fast (Walkinshaw exluded).

Apologies for veering away from OP.

[trbo 6]

Originally Posted by DENKO

i reckon im pretty good, many moons i had a au falcon manual, stock as can be, i managed to run 15.04 @ heathcote, so ive got some indication on how to launch the manuals, its unlucky with the mods you've got to be running 13.0, have you got dyno papers to back you up?

Mate I'm not going to turn this into a pi$$ing contest. I've taken a manual AU xr8 ute a manual BA GT to the drags and got sub 2.0 60 foots with both of them. The turbo 6 is harder to launch.

How are dyno papers going to back me up? The mph shows the power of the car and the 60 foot shows how I launched.

[DENKO]

Thanks for telling me the difference, i was born yesterday, all im saying is if you have got a set up like that, obviously launching will be hard, but you should gain heaps of time mid track, so you should be busting 12.8's casually! 110mph for 360rwkw just doesnt make sence! i busted a 13.7 @ 108mph with my xr8, considering i only had 220rwkw (auto), now ive been in this scene, been to many ford days at heathcote, raced many times a calder to understand what power should be running! maybe your running 360kw @ the flywheel?

[Windsor342ci]

The 55kws between the 2 doesnt make much of a difference seeing the F6 is boosted.
Im going to go against the grain here and say the F6 could do it. Im going have faith in your launch ability here! In this sanario, with the HSV being Auto, your launch is more important now then ever before!!!
No point having more torque when your at redline to have to use it...

[trbo 6]

Originally Posted by trbo 6

I took my BA F6 manual out last night which supposedly had 360rwk, I could only manage a 13.0 @110mph 2.0 60foot.

The mph suggests the power is closer to 330rwk than 360rwk. So I think you'd be doing real well to get a low 13 in a stock F6!

Denko read my initial post above!! I know the 110mph doesn't equate to 360rwkw. So again I really don't know why you need to see my dyno sheet as I was questioning the power figure of my car in the first place. My car was sold to me with the claim it had 360rwk, it obviously doesn't have that power.

Anyway, good luck mate. Let us know what time you get.

[blackf6]

Originally Posted by Cheech

I agree that the manual would loose on ET all things being equal.

However, saying that he has no chance as he only has 270fwkw is incorrect.

For example, the FG XR6T is rated at 270fwkw and the current top production HSV is rated at 325kw - a difference of 55kw.
However, peak torque is held from around 2000rpm in the FG. This allows the FG to be just as fast as, if not faster than the HSV. This is a simplistic way of looking at it as gearing, weight and mechanical grip also comes into the equation. Try overlaying a power curve of an HSV with an XR6T sometime, you'll see that the forced induction engine jumps to peak power rather quickly and stays there, dropping off at high revs as the turbo struggles to hold boost. Whereas the V8 is a rather linear affair.

Current best time (I believe) for an FGXR6T is 12.3ish with a K&N. I don't know of any stock HSV's that can go this fast (Walkinshaw exluded).

Apologies for veering away from OP.

Hold on this thread is about a Ba mk2 f6 verse a 6.0ltr hsv hence the 270 flywheel killawatts statement, and if said car is standard is the factory quoted power. My statement still stands and is valid no chance.

[blackf6]

[QUOTE=teak81]Hold on, this thread is about a Ba mk2 f6 verse a 6.0ltr hsv hence the 270 flywheel killawatts statement, and if said car is standard, is the factory quoted power. My statement still stands and is valid. No chance.