The end of car making in Australia...

[Trump]

A surprisingly honest assessment of the end of car making (and the consequences) in Australia:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/aut...04-gjfdsg.html

[Adamz Ghia]

I read that article. A very interesting read. If it's true it makes me wonder why the government would push for this. Although Ford did pull out earlier than when the coalition took power.

[Trump]

The government doesn't care. It's as simple as that.

[simon varley]

The normal cycle in the car industry is three years for upgrades and six years for a complete new model.

true

As neither of these are happening at the three local factories, designers and engineers are already being laid off.

couldn't be further from the truth. We have never been so busy in Geelong, Lara and Broadmeadows. Just because we aren't working on Falcon and Territory doesn't mean we are sitting around twiddling our thumbs. Engineering is expanding at a rate we haven't seen for years and we are hiring like mad.

[wodahs]

kinda old

was said back then why let it all go , cant get taxs off people that arnt working or products not being produced

always hard to create money when noting is being producer just a service being supplied
and its hard to keep letting money go when nothing is coming in

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by wodahs

kinda old

was said back then why let it all go , cant get taxs off people that arnt working or products not being produced

always hard to create money when noting is being producer just a service being supplied
and its hard to keep letting money go when nothing is coming in

Pretty sure for every $1 the gov put into the industry, the country got $10 back or something.

[wodahs]

Originally Posted by XR6 Martin

Pretty sure for every $1 the gov put into the industry, the country got $10 back or something.

yep was something like that and to me that's a pretty good investment wish I could get that on my stocks

[Trump]

Originally Posted by simon varley

true

couldn't be further from the truth. We have never been so busy in Geelong, Lara and Broadmeadows. Just because we aren't working on Falcon and Territory doesn't mean we are sitting around twiddling our thumbs. Engineering is expanding at a rate we haven't seen for years and we are hiring like mad.

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here.
How long before Ford's Indian and Chinese engineering departments have caught up to the Australian engineering team (in terms of experience, knowledge and application quality) and renders them too expensive?

[tonys6550]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

The government doesn't care. It's as simple as that.

You mean the representatives that we as a people elected to represent us in all facets of governance, Is that the same government your talking about?

Yeah, Confounded, Damn us.....umm...Oh I mean them......People!

[Trump]

Originally Posted by tonys6550

You mean the representatives that we as a people elected to represent us in all facets of governance, Is that the same government your talking about?

Yeah, Confounded, Damn us.....umm...Oh I mean them......People!

If you are referring to the politicritters, the bureaucracy, the army of consultants, contractors and other general effwits, then yes, they are the government that doesn't care.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

I'm going to play the devil's advocate here.
How long before Ford's Indian and Chinese engineering departments have caught up to the Australian engineering team (in terms of experience, knowledge and application quality) and renders them too expensive?

a long time but a fair point, and I'd say that anyone who is making any predictions more than 5 years or so into the future is doing nothing more than guessing. For my guess, I'd say Ford Australia will be an ongoing engineering concern for at least the next 10 years which (being selfish) will see me to retirement.

[mr smith]

Australians ****ed this up against the wall. Lazy investment in property and mining will see us knacered very shortly.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by simon varley

a long time but a fair point, and I'd say that anyone who is making any predictions more than 5 years or so into the future is doing nothing more than guessing. For my guess, I'd say Ford Australia will be an ongoing engineering concern for at least the next 10 years which (being selfish) will see me to retirement.

You bastard

Jokes aside is there anything in the pipeline beyond the five year mark?

[last fairlane]

This might be over simplified
but I reckon the Australian auto industry could have been saved
with just a single law from the federal government
saying that all federal state and local governments
must buy locally built vehicles first
Falcons and Commodores for the police cars
Falcon and Commodore utes for paddy wagons
Territorys for general use instead of twin cabs
trucks should have been the ones built here
like Internationals Macks Kenworths and Volvos
there would be some exceptions like
Toyota landcruisers for desert work and Benz for ambos
but all in all how much would have been saved
over all and the car plants would still be running
the feds would still be getting more taxes than ever
dont get me started on free trade agreements
that rip us off and no one has the balls to do anything about them
thats my rant
I could be totally wrong
Im not a Government expert
John

[Trump]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

This might be over simplified
but I reckon the Australian auto industry could have been saved
with just a single law from the federal government
saying that all federal state and local governments
must buy locally built vehicles first
Falcons and Commodores for the police cars
Falcon and Commodore utes for paddy wagons
Territorys for general use instead of twin cabs
trucks should have been the ones built here
like Internationals Macks Kenworths and Volvos
there would be some exceptions like
Toyota landcruisers for desert work and Benz for ambos
but all in all how much would have been saved
over all and the car plants would still be running
the feds would still be getting more taxes than ever
dont get me started on free trade agreements
that rip us off and no one has the balls to do anything about them
thats my rant
I could be totally wrong
Im not a Government expert
John

How do I know you're not a government expert, your idea makes sense.

[mr smith]

I agree, real long term jobs didn't have to be sacrificed. I am glad i got through with a working life of value added work. It would have sucked being a part time, casual coffee boy or real estate land rat.

[Bossxr8]

I'm just glad I got off the sinking ship and out to the proving ground.

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

A surprisingly honest assessment of the end of car making (and the consequences) in Australia:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/aut...04-gjfdsg.html

Yep, its good in that it doesnt delve into how we got here, unions vs hard heads etc because in the end we all lost. Im of the opinion that the article is spot on. Hang on to your hats

[cheap]

Originally Posted by last fairlane

This might be over simplified
but I reckon the Australian auto industry could have been saved
with just a single law from the federal government
saying that all federal state and local governments
must buy locally built vehicles first
Falcons and Commodores for the police cars
Falcon and Commodore utes for paddy wagons
Territorys for general use instead of twin cabs
trucks should have been the ones built here
like Internationals Macks Kenworths and Volvos
there would be some exceptions like
Toyota landcruisers for desert work and Benz for ambos
but all in all how much would have been saved
over all and the car plants would still be running
the feds would still be getting more taxes than ever
dont get me started on free trade agreements
that rip us off and no one has the balls to do anything about them
thats my rant
I could be totally wrong
Im not a Government expert
John

The bottom line is that Australians stopped buy sufficient quantities of local cars years ago, governments have been assisting their industries all over the world, however the current government when it came into power was left with no money to keep the local industry afloat even if they wanted to.

[new2ford]

In the end, it's decided overseas no matter what is done locally. These companies are owned in USA and Japan. There's nothing we can do about what they decide is in their best interests.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'm just glad I got off the sinking ship and out to the proving ground.

I jumped (begrudgingly) from PD nearly three years ago now, Im in mining (just) but there is not a day that goes by that I dont pop in here and wish it could have worked out down south....hard to be passionate about holes in the ground.

Dont get me wrong there are positives in my job and satisfaction, but its not the same. I made the call to make my passion a hobby and not my job.

Simon who are they hiring? Is it still through bloody Bayside?

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

A surprisingly honest assessment of the end of car making (and the consequences) in Australia:

http://www.theage.com.au/comment/aut...04-gjfdsg.html

It does suprise me that you could think that its an honest assessment, when even the basic facts of the story dont ring true.

When all the car factories close, that will add about 12,500 people to the dole queue. Most of the parts suppliers will also close their plants, adding a further 33,000 people.

Firstly, i would like to know where the Car manufacturers are using 12500 people, making cars (and the author has seperated car makers and supplier numbers). I havent kept up with the latest figures, but i thought Ford had about 750, Holden 1250 and Toyota about 3000 in there car making plants at the moment. Remembering all manufacturers are not closing down their sales, logistics etc. 33,000 people being empl0yed in component makers is just laughable.

The Department of Industry reckons there are around 930,000 people employed in manufacturing around the country. So if 200,000 automotive workers lose their jobs, that will represent more than 21 per cent of the entire manufacturing workforce.

Thats a nice jump, from 45,000 to 200,000

Yet no one in the Abbott government seems to be aware of the calamity that is quickly approaching. It is going to be a body blow, not just to unemployment levels and welfare payments, but also to manufacturing output due to the loss of $29 billion in local value-adding. In addition, the trade deficit will expand because a further 150,000 vehicles will have to be imported to meet demand – and Australia will also lose the benefit of Toyota's annual export of 90,000 vehicles to the Middle East.

Australia is on schedule to make circa 165,000 cars this year, out of that, we buy half of them, and the rest are exported. I am not sure why you would need to buy 150,000 cars,to make up for the 80,000 or so, that you are producing and selling locally. Out of those 165,000 being made locally, you have alot of low valued cruzes and camrys (remember camrys get exported for under $20,0000,so the average wholesale price of a car being made in Australia would be under $30,000. $30,000 x 165,000 units = $4.9 billion. Even with that $4.9 billion, alarge proportion of that is being imported and fitted into a locally made car. If the author thinks that local part suppliers are supplying circa $3 billion to local manufacturers, but also is making another $26 billion for aftermarket parts or exports, then they should be more than capable of losing 10% of their business.

The author simply didnt use his calculator function whilst typing his story on his computer.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/aut...#ixzz3l6SfAydw
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Firstly, i would like to know where the Car manufacturers are using 12500 people, making cars (and the author has seperated car makers and supplier numbers). I havent kept up with the latest figures, but i thought Ford had about 750, Holden 1250 and Toyota about 3000 in there car making plants at the moment. Remembering all manufacturers are not closing down their sales, logistics etc. 33,000 people being empl0yed in component makers is just laughable.

Cause parts just appear in thin air. But then again there is like 6-7 parts in a car and that it.

[superroo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Simon who are they hiring? Is it still through bloody Bayside?

All over the place. Have a look on seek.
Combo of Bayside and permi positions. But the permi ones are more to entice the ex-GM engineers

[Trump]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

It does suprise me that you could think that its an honest assessment, when even the basic facts of the story dont ring true.



Firstly, i would like to know where the Car manufacturers are using 12500 people, making cars (and the author has seperated car makers and supplier numbers). I havent kept up with the latest figures, but i thought Ford had about 750, Holden 1250 and Toyota about 3000 in there car making plants at the moment. Remembering all manufacturers are not closing down their sales, logistics etc. 33,000 people being empl0yed in component makers is just laughable.



Thats a nice jump, from 45,000 to 200,000



Australia is on schedule to make circa 165,000 cars this year, out of that, we buy half of them, and the rest are exported. I am not sure why you would need to buy 150,000 cars,to make up for the 80,000 or so, that you are producing and selling locally. Out of those 165,000 being made locally, you have alot of low valued cruzes and camrys (remember camrys get exported for under $20,0000,so the average wholesale price of a car being made in Australia would be under $30,000. $30,000 x 165,000 units = $4.9 billion. Even with that $4.9 billion, alarge proportion of that is being imported and fitted into a locally made car. If the author thinks that local part suppliers are supplying circa $3 billion to local manufacturers, but also is making another $26 billion for aftermarket parts or exports, then they should be more than capable of losing 10% of their business.

The author simply didnt use his calculator function whilst typing his story on his computer.

Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/comment/aut...#ixzz3l6SfAydw
Follow us: @theage on Twitter | theageAustralia on Facebook

If you had bothered to read the article (and checked the numbers for yourself), you would realise that the numbers actually add up. If anything they may be a touch conservative.

[amiers]

MODS please delete post. couldn't get link to an article to work

[Hulsty]

That is a very good article and says what I have been saying for ages, we will be at a net disadvantage once the big 3 leave. All thanks to the small minded uninformed people that believed the government was just giving free money to the car companies without any return on investment.

So according to those same peoples logic, shouldnt we cut all funding to private schools and hospitals? yeah right......

[Wretched]

We'll find out the impact soon enough.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

If you had bothered to read the article (and checked the numbers for yourself), you would realise that the numbers actually add up. If anything they may be a touch conservative.

I did,and they actually dont add up. But i have a feeling that you will explain exactly how they do add up?????? I am waiting!!!!!

[Kieron]

That article just doesn't take the big picture and fact into account.

Fact, the GFC bought GM to bankruptcy and Ford USA perilously close. Once one of the big three went down, it would have caused a domino effect and the Tier 2/3 companies would have gone hence the US govt. jumping in to save GM/Chrysler and ultimately Ford.

Ford managed to stave of bankruptcy and a big contributor to this was the 'One Ford' concept, this spelt the death knell for the Falcon/Territory.

Once the Falcon/Territory is gone, it spelt the end for Aussie Ford manufacturing.

Ford Aus announced it will cease manufacture while the Labor govt was still in power.

Like the US, once one of the three down here pulled the plug, its clear the others would follow.

Old news, but relevant -
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/w...-1226827493012