fuel in oil?

[paddle]

I have a 1998 AU Ford Falcon Forte and have been changing the oil in it every 2/3 weeks as it keeps going black on me. I have spoken to Autobarn about the oil i was using (Penrite) and they said i could try some Shell Helix because that gets the dirt out, so i tried it and still the same thing is happening. Here i'am today changing it again within a fortnight....Its costing me an arm and a leg to keep doing this all the time.
I have also been having problems with fuel economy and how bad its been. The dude at Autobarn mentioned to me it could be fuel mixing with the oil which might be the reason the oil keeps going black so quick.

When i did my oil change today i smelt the oil and it distinctively smells alot like fuel to me. I'm getting the mechanic to put the scan tool on it on Monday to see if he can see whats going on here.

Does anyone have any advice for me???? OR what could it be?

[howesy]

The oil is just doing it's job and taking all the crap away while it lubricates thats why they put dispersants (sometimes refered 2 as detergent) in oil.
If it is going black really quickly its probably got to do with the fact that you say its drinking fuel. Either one or all of your cylinders is more than running way too rich and this will have a lot of carbon which will send your oil black quickly. And your mechanic will have to suss it out for you as the reason for rich running could be any number of sensors misreading to stuffed injector,dirty filters, broken rings the list goes on and there are thousands of possible reasons.
I think your key is your bad fuel economy sort out the reason behind it and do a change and I think you will notice a difference

[au2sw]

perhaps an injector clean, new fuel filter, get the o2 sensor checked to see if its operating correctly. if this doesnt fix the problem, ask for a leakdown and compresion test to ensure all cylinders are in good running order. this should hopefully rectify the economy and oil situation. also a set of leads, plugs and air filter possibly wouldnt go astray if they havent been done recently. just some ideas at least for you to try.
good luck, i hope you find the problem.
col

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by paddle

I have a 1998 AU Ford Falcon Forte and have been changing the oil in it every 2/3 weeks as it keeps going black on me. I have spoken to Autobarn about the oil i was using (Penrite) and they said i could try some Shell Helix because that gets the dirt out, so i tried it and still the same thing is happening. Here i'am today changing it again within a fortnight....Its costing me an arm and a leg to keep doing this all the time.
I have also been having problems with fuel economy and how bad its been. The dude at Autobarn mentioned to me it could be fuel mixing with the oil which might be the reason the oil keeps going black so quick.

When i did my oil change today i smelt the oil and it distinctively smells alot like fuel to me. I'm getting the mechanic to put the scan tool on it on Monday to see if he can see whats going on here.

Does anyone have any advice for me???? OR what could it be?

You change you oil EVERY time it goes black? So if you changed the oil then drove to Syd, found out that -shock- it's gone black, you'd change it again?

Think about what you said re: fuel econ and the Autobarn guys saying it could be mixing with the oil. It should be filling the entire engine and coming out the oil filler on the rocker cover, not to mention the oil getting as thin as the petrol and, not being oil anymore cause the engine to make very expensive noises!

It's going black because its doing it's job!

Remember that most Autobarn people are salesmen. I once asked for a steering wheel boss to suit a MOMO wheel. Salesman looked on computer, could'nt find it and then asked who made MOMO!!

[au2sw]

BTW, oil will have a similar smell to petrol as petrol is a by-product of oil, so as the oil thins down it starts to smell similar to petrol. also, never take a salesmans words at face value, when they say "yes, thats right. your stereo is worn out, thats why it crackles" they really mean, "yes, your a sucker, we'll sell you a new stereo and speaker package even though the problem is a poorly tuned radio!"

[janek]

Originally Posted by GasOLane

You change you oil EVERY time it goes black? So if you changed the oil then drove to Syd, found out that -shock- it's gone black, you'd change it again?

Think about what you said re: fuel econ and the Autobarn guys saying it could be mixing with the oil. It should be filling the entire engine and coming out the oil filler on the rocker cover, not to mention the oil getting as thin as the petrol and, not being oil anymore cause the engine to make very expensive noises!

It's going black because its doing it's job!

Remember that most Autobarn people are salesmen. I once asked for a steering wheel boss to suit a MOMO wheel. Salesman looked on computer, could'nt find it and then asked who made MOMO!!

Um, not neccessarily true. i drive syd-bris andvice versa at least 2 times before i change my oil- at 5,000 the oil is still golden.

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by janek

Um, not neccessarily true. i drive syd-bris andvice versa at least 2 times before i change my oil- at 5,000 the oil is still golden.

How old is the engine. IE: How many K's has the motor done?

[AUXRVIII]

The oil in my 140k XR8 never goes black (when checked on the stick), & I only change it every 10k. Doesn't use any either.

[brenx]

High detergent oils will go black quickly. Non-detergent oils will say golden. My 393 after 1000k's from new had black oil. I'd rather wash the inside of th black instead of having large carbon deposits suddenly fall off and end up in your oil pump. Which causes instant oil pump failure.

Don't stress unless when you crack the sump plug you get raw fuel out of the drain plug. Easiest test is to do a change with cold oil and the cars been sitting overnight. It's the very same way you find out whether you have water in your oil. The water comes out prior to the oil.

Rings do allow some fuel to pass but usually it vapourises once it hits hot oil. Hence the invention of PCV ;)

[JoesAu]

throw engine cleaner threw your motor, or take the rocker cover off tip 6-7 litres of kerosene in the oil galleries with the sump plug out while the oil is draining.

[AUXRVIII]

Originally Posted by brenx

High detergent oils will go black quickly. Non-detergent oils will say golden. My 393 after 1000k's from new had black oil. I'd rather wash the inside of th black instead of having large carbon deposits suddenly fall off and end up in your oil pump. Which causes instany pump failure.

Don't stress unless when you crack the sump plug you get raw fuel out of the drain plug. Easiest test is to do a change with cold oil and the cars been sitting overnight. It's the very same way you find out whether you have water in your oil. The water comes out prior to the oil.

Rings do allow some fuel to pass but usually it vapourises once it hits hot oil. Hence the invention of PCV ;)

So what you are saying is golden engine oil after a few thousand kays is leaving the insides of your engine clogged with carbon deposits?

[brenx]

Originally Posted by AUXRVIII

So what you are saying is golden engine oil after a few thousand kays is leaving the insides of your engine clogged with carbon deposits?

Over an extended period of time yes.

[NeishaXR8_347]

Originally Posted by brenx

Over an extended period of time yes.

This is very far from the truth, its showing that the oil you are using is not up to the task is basically not transfering the heat and is turning into ash and carbon is present in the oil making it black, An engine which is in good order shouldn't be turning the oil black after 1000 or even 2000kms.
Mineral oils love to go black quickly, synthetic will handle more heat and take more abuse and stay cleaner for longer.

In simple terms an engine which is clean internally and has regular oil changes (5000KMS) done should come out clean, it will be a golden brown colour yes but it doesn't mean it hasnt done its job at not cleaning it just means the engine is fairly clean and the oil is basically just lubing and has nothing present to make it go black.

The cleaner the oil comes out the cleaner the internals will be, simple as that.

[philstoj]

Originally Posted by NeishaXR8_347

This is very far from the truth, its showing that the oil you are using is not up to the task is basically not transfering the heat and is turning into ash and carbon is present in the oil making it black, An engine which is in good order shouldn't be turning the oil black after 1000 or even 2000kms.
Mineral oils love to go black quickly, synthetic will handle more heat and take more abuse and stay cleaner for longer.

In simple terms an engine which is clean internally and has regular oil changes (5000KMS) done should come out clean, it will be a golden brown colour yes but it doesn't mean it hasnt done its job at not cleaning it just means the engine is fairly clean and the oil is basically just lubing and has nothing present to make it go black.

The cleaner the oil comes out the cleaner the internals will be, simple as that.

Listen to this man, he machines and builds engines for a living!

[AUXRVIII]

Originally Posted by NeishaXR8_347

This is very far from the truth, its showing that the oil you are using is not up to the task is basically not transfering the heat and is turning into ash and carbon is present in the oil making it black, An engine which is in good order shouldn't be turning the oil black after 1000 or even 2000kms.
Mineral oils love to go black quickly, synthetic will handle more heat and take more abuse and stay cleaner for longer.

In simple terms an engine which is clean internally and has regular oil changes (5000KMS) done should come out clean, it will be a golden brown colour yes but it doesn't mean it hasnt done its job at not cleaning it just means the engine is fairly clean and the oil is basically just lubing and has nothing present to make it go black.

The cleaner the oil comes out the cleaner the internals will be, simple as that.

Oh you just spoilt a little game I was going to play!
Good quality mineral oils also have the ability of maintaining clean engine internals.

[brenx]

Originally Posted by NeishaXR8_347

This is very far from the truth, its showing that the oil you are using is not up to the task is basically not transfering the heat and is turning into ash and carbon is present in the oil making it black, An engine which is in good order shouldn't be turning the oil black after 1000 or even 2000kms.
Mineral oils love to go black quickly, synthetic will handle more heat and take more abuse and stay cleaner for longer.

In simple terms an engine which is clean internally and has regular oil changes (5000KMS) done should come out clean, it will be a golden brown colour yes but it doesn't mean it hasnt done its job at not cleaning it just means the engine is fairly clean and the oil is basically just lubing and has nothing present to make it go black.

The cleaner the oil comes out the cleaner the internals will be, simple as that.

Yup, true. I've always found synthetic oils to come out clean even when run in an engine that was turning oil black. My only downfall is I can't run synthetic in the XB. The 30yo oil seals aren't designed to hold thin oil in. Tried it once, 5lt @ $75, had less than 3lt left in the sump after 1000k's (on a 1000k old 351). Swapped back to 20/50w and it never used more than 100mls ever. I change the oil in the XB very regularly (1000-2000ks), partially due to it's use at times (drag racing). In my other two cars I run nothing but synthetic oils which stay relatively clean @ 10,000k intervals but they were designed to hold it in.

[NeishaXR8_347]

Originally Posted by brenx

Yup, true. I've always found synthetic oils to come out clean even when run in an engine that was turning oil black. My only downfall is I can't run synthetic in the XB. The 30yo oil seals aren't designed to hold thin oil in. Tried it once, 5lt @ $75, had less than 3lt left in the sump after 1000k's (on a 1000k old 351). Swapped back to 20/50w and it never used more than 100mls ever. I change the oil in the XB very regularly (1000-2000ks), partially due to it's use at times (drag racing). In my other two cars I run nothing but synthetic oils which stay relatively clean @ 10,000k intervals but they were designed to hold it in.

Have you tried a good quality Oil stabalizer that will help with keeping the oil from breaking down under extremes? I mean use your regular 20/50w that you use and add a Stabalizer, it will help the heat and breaking down of the oil where-as the mineral oils cant. Might be worth a try.

[brenx]

Never knew there was such a thing. I've find some and give that a go. I've tried plenty of different brands of mineral oils over the years with limited success. I originally had Kendall oil in the 393 but as stated it went black quickly.

[NeishaXR8_347]

Lucas Oils makes a good one its around $20, Supercheap has a sale on so it might be even cheaper.

[brenx]

No drama's I have a local supercheap store. Thanks for the tip.