2007 Focus dipstick weirdness

66FAIRLANE · 04-12-2015, 02:02 PM

Just bought a Focus with a 2.0 Duratec engine. Weird thing is if you let it sit for a while then pull the dipstick it shows almost empty. Put stick back in and pull it and it shows full. I looked at another one before buying this and it was the same. Never seen this happen before. Usually if you let an engine sit you get a true indication of the level. This has me scratching my head.

mik · 04-12-2015, 02:51 PM

just a thought, does the stick go in on an angle ? perhaps if you put it a bit quick its flapping about a bit, if you put it in slowly and retrieve it maybe the result will be different ? im probably talking out of my *** , and you probably have already done that , , thats all i can think off , but agreed .... very weird , let us know if you solve this conundrum

.

66FAIRLANE · 04-12-2015, 04:57 PM

It go's straight in. So weird. You would think leaving it overnight and then pulling would show you the level, but do that and its damn near empty! Put it back in and pull it out and its at the full mark!

I looked at one in a car yard and it did the same thing. I pulled the stick and it showed empty after the salesman told me they just serviced it. I said "hey this has no oil" and he said put it back and pull it again. Sure enough it showed full. WTF?

JVC063 · 04-12-2015, 05:56 PM

I can vouch for this as well. I got a XR4 and the dipstick showed it not on the stick. I drained the oil for a oil change and collected just over 5 litres ??? Went then to change the oil in the LT zetec Focus with similar results. Both cars had the correct amount of oil, but fail to show on the dipstick. PS they have not been swapped around. Oil added to both cars using a measuring bottle on re-installation. It did not matter how many times it was inserted.

tasdex · 04-12-2015, 09:37 PM

a + 1 here ...
can do exactly the same thing with our ls .

another thing ..and this will really mess with your head....
what way does the stick go in ,,?
with the guage facing the engine ....or facing the grill . .
as if you will notice ...the oil level is different depending what side of it you look at ....

try it and you will see ..

CatonaPC© · 05-12-2015, 09:08 AM

There's obviously some scientific explanation for this related to surface tension of liquids. The amount of surface on a dipstick isn't enough to hold the oil for a period of time and eventually ceases to cling to the dipstick . So when you pull the dipstick out, there's no oil on it. Putting it back in is enough to 're-attach' the oil for a measurement.

I'm assuming you are all wiping the dipstick first before reinserting it for a measurement? This is the correct procedure.

66FAIRLANE · 05-12-2015, 11:32 AM

Of course! Overnight the dipstick repels the oil. Why didnt I think of that

marg99 · 05-12-2015, 12:52 PM

sounds like politicians have the same chemical treatment nothing sticks to them!

tasdex · 05-12-2015, 01:41 PM

hahahaha ,,

yeah ,,
and the only time they all turn up to parliment ,," and stay awake " , and realy agree on both sides is when they all want another pay rise .

CatonaPC© · 05-12-2015, 02:28 PM

My explanation might sound warped but it's better than the one that states the oil quantity is different depending on which way one puts the dipstick in. But I wouldn't doubt its plausibility.

How many here understand how oil works in your car as the temperature rises? How many understand what the numbers on the side of an engine oil container mean?

If you do. My explanation may not be as far fetched as it seems. Hence; measure engine oil when cold - take the dipstick out, wipe it and then reinsert and remove to measure. Add oil if necessary, close bonnet.

66FAIRLANE · 05-12-2015, 05:35 PM

I have been working on cars and building my own engines for 35 years. I have never seen a crankcase display this type of behaviour. As I have not serviced this myself yet I am very suspect of it. Generally when you leave an engine sit for some time (a couple of ours) oil runs back from the top end and you get an accurate reading. If you shut an engine down and check the oil it might show low. What is really odd is the car yard one I looked at did the same thing. Until I service it myself and put in the recommended amount of oil I am just guessing, But I have never repeat never seen an oil level grow after pulling the dipstick wiping it and putting it back after sitting. If anything the exact opposite.

This is a weird one. It is possible that both vehicles are actually low on oil. But as I said every other car I have ever owned if you let it sit overnight check the level then put it back in and check it again it will be the same. Maybe a fraction less. Never more. After all it is just a stick in a bucket of fluid.
This is not just a little bit different. It is not an the stick at all to full.

And yes I know what 'the numbers' mean.

CatonaPC© · 05-12-2015, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66FAIRLANE

I have been working on cars and building my own engines for 35 years.

That's good. Now we're both on the same wavelength. Now . . you started this post despite 35 years building your own engines. So. Tell me. What in your opinion is happening here, given that engine oil technology (forget the engines) has developed exponentially in those 35 years?

I'm not a mechanic. But I am a motoring enthusiast. My gut is telling me this can be simply explained. Perhaps my theory is completely wrong. So, I, like you, now await an explanation for the effect your describe.

66FAIRLANE · 05-12-2015, 06:19 PM

The reason for wiping a dipstick before doing the final check is due to oils propensity to cling. Thus you wipe the stick so you are not fooled into a higher level than reality. This is the exact opposite.

I started this thread as 2 x Duratec 2.0's have done this to me and I have zero experience with them. I was hoping that other owners could corroborate or explain this observation. Do you own a Duratec 2.0?

CatonaPC© · 05-12-2015, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 66FAIRLANE

I started this thread as 2 x Duratec 2.0's have done this to me and I have zero experience with them.

I'm trying to help you here, mate. First question. Does the dipstick have a bulb at the bottom?

tasdex · 05-12-2015, 11:20 PM

my thoughts on the oil level being different on both side " and they alway are on our ls " ,is that the dipstick does not enter the sump at a direct horizontal " straight up" angle ..thus differing sides sit in the oil at different "angles/heights"
I know it may sound like a fob off ..
but ours shows different levels on both sides of the stick ..
therefore which way in ...
facing the motor with the guage ..
or facing the grill
.

66FAIRLANE · 06-12-2015, 01:03 AM

Yes but this a massive difference. Not showing to above full. Until I drain it I wont really know. Although I didnt want to as it is showing a recent service and the oil is dead clean.
Its a bit bizzare but as this one is doing the same thing as the yard one I thought I would ask. Maybe there is some sort of pocket or other ironmongery in the crankcase that contributes. Only had the car for a few days and havent had a chance to go over it yet.

tasdex · 06-12-2015, 02:25 AM

I understand you completely..
can check it once ..wipe it clean .
slide it back ,,at either speed ..
wait a while ,,
can be dry .
wipe it ,,even tho dry ..
back it it goes ..
and presto ....all of a sudden it shows oil .

CatonaPC© · 06-12-2015, 10:12 AM

Okay, I've done some research and the issue can be explained. The top of the dip stick is sealed when the dip stick is in. The engine oil of course lowers when the engine runs and does not re-enter the tube. No oil can enter the tube while it's sealed (like holding a finger over a straw and pushing it into a glass of water). The first time your check, you pull the stick out, it's dry. The engine oil meanwhile reenters the tube. You reinsert the stick and pull it out. This time there is oil.

Strangely, enough, in my defence, I found a similar explanation to mine regarding oil not 'clinging' to the stick possibly due to use of synthetic oil.

But, I think the 'tube' theory makes more sense to me.

66FAIRLANE · 06-12-2015, 11:53 AM

The tube theory is plausible but most engines the stick exits the tube into the crankcase. Maybe it doesnt with these engines. This would be supported by the 'stick' being the hard wire type with a bulb. Need to see a drawing. But this could explain it.

CatonaPC© · 06-12-2015, 12:34 PM

I have a Focus LZ with a bulb at the bottom of the dipstick. I think it's there to keep the stick from touching the sides of the tube. I haven't noticed the effect you described, as I would wipe and re-insert out of habit. Next time, I'll check to see if there's any oil when I first pull it out.

mik · 06-12-2015, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatonaPC©

Okay, I've done some research and the issue can be explained. The top of the dip stick is sealed when the dip stick is in. The engine oil of course lowers when the engine runs and does not re-enter the tube. No oil can enter the tube while it's sealed (like holding a finger over a straw and pushing it into a glass of water). The first time your check, you pull the stick out, it's dry. The engine oil meanwhile reenters the tube. You reinsert the stick and pull it out. This time there is oil.

Strangely, enough, in my defence, I found a similar explanation to mine regarding oil not 'clinging' to the stick possibly due to use of synthetic oil.

But, I think the 'tube' theory makes more sense to me.

That to me sounds like a good possibility, so to test this theory out all we need do is take the rubber seal off the top of the tube or off the dipstick or wherever it is and give it a test out.
Either that or try it with a piece of appropriately sized wire or something to see what reaction we get.

CatonaPC© · 06-12-2015, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

That to me sounds like a good possibility, so to test this theory out all we need do is take the rubber seal off the top of the tube or off the dipstick or wherever it is and give it a test out.
Either that or try it with a piece of appropriately sized wire or something to see what reaction we get.

Oooh . . I don't know. Something in the back of my head says to me that there's a good reason why it's designed like that, so, no, I wouldn't attempt this.

mik · 06-12-2015, 01:32 PM

No you would not do it permanently, just once to test if it is correct or not, and you would not even attempt it if you
thought there was any danger of dropping said measuring stick down into the sump.
Old saying, If in doubt don't.

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CatonaPC© · 06-12-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

No you would not do it permanently, just once to test if it is correct or not,

A better test would be to pull the dipstick out slightly, wait a few seconds and then put it back in. Then pull the stick out completely to check to see if there is any oil on it. Theoretically there should be, because the oil would have been allowed to flow up the tube on the first pull of the dipstick.

66FAIRLANE's idea to check drawings would be a better way to determine what is actually happening.

mik · 06-12-2015, 03:11 PM

I don't know that drawings will reveal much, but it's always worth a look, yep pulling the stock our a bit should work to.

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xr8 007 · 09-12-2015, 04:32 PM

My best mate has a focus, same issue as OP has stated. I have a LS focus as a daily and it does the same thing and service it myself and i know the full 5 liters goes in. Its really weird.....

CatonaPC© · 09-12-2015, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xr8 007

I have a LS focus as a daily and it does the same thing and service it myself and i know the full 5 liters goes in. Its really weird.....

You may have not read all the comments in the thread. Please see my earlier post:

Quote:

The top of the dip stick is sealed when the dip stick is in. The engine oil of course lowers when the engine runs and does not re-enter the tube. No oil can enter the tube while it's sealed (like holding a finger over a straw and pushing it into a glass of water). The first time your check, you pull the stick out, it's dry. The engine oil meanwhile reenters the tube. You reinsert the stick and pull it out. This time there is oil.

marg99 · 09-12-2015, 07:52 PM

a simple scientific explanation for what appeared to be majic

averageman · 23-08-2016, 07:01 PM

Hi, The finger on the straw analogy is correct, also if you have a look under the car at where the dipstick tube goes into the sump, you can see that the stick reads the level in the tube itself not in the sump, so with heating and cooling of everything and the fact that the top of the tube is sealed and the sump is vented to the outside atmosphere the oil level in the sump becomes different to the level in the tube. I know because I overfilled the oil the first time I toped it up and I suspect I am one of many doofuses.