Disciplinary hearing witness. NSW

MrEL · 10-02-2009, 12:14 AM

Hi all
Im hoping someone here can help me out or give me some good links to research.
Basically I have to go to a friend of mines work tomorrow as his witness in a disciplinary hearing. They have ok'd me to go even though I am not a work collegue.
If it all goes pear shaped he will most likely be getting a lift home with me after it , so thats what we really dont want to happen.
Im trying to find out what notes , recordings of this meeting etc I can take as the witness so we have some backup if it goes further.
I know I cannot be involved in the discussion I am there purely as his witness to proceedings.
What they are accusing him of doing I actually know for a fact he didnt do it. I do know the full story and its from more then one person as I know a number of people at this workplace.
This is in NSW by the way. If anyone has any info on what I can and cant do to make my best effort for this guy it will be appreciated.
Thanks.

MNM96 · 10-02-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrEL

Hi all
Im hoping someone here can help me out or give me some good links to research.
Basically I have to go to a friend of mines work tomorrow as his witness in a disciplinary hearing. They have ok'd me to go even though I am not a work collegue.
If it all goes pear shaped he will most likely be getting a lift home with me after it , so thats what we really dont want to happen.
Im trying to find out what notes , recordings of this meeting etc I can take as the witness so we have some backup if it goes further.
I know I cannot be involved in the discussion I am there purely as his witness to proceedings.
What they are accusing him of doing I actually know for a fact he didnt do it. I do know the full story and its from more then one person as I know a number of people at this workplace.
This is in NSW by the way. If anyone has any info on what I can and cant do to make my best effort for this guy it will be appreciated.
Thanks.

You can record all conversations had as long as you make all parties aware that you are doing it. It will later unlikely be allowed as evidence in a Court of Law.

We need more details on what happened.

XRQTR · 10-02-2009, 08:58 AM

Surely there would be a record of minutes if it's a formal hearing.

**Burnout** · 10-02-2009, 09:50 AM

There should be a recording of the proceedings.
In my experience you would be attending as a support person, however you have no official authority at the hearing other than to ensure normal common sense rules are applied, ie.. the person you are supporting is treated reasonably & with respect for person.

ltd_on20s · 10-02-2009, 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrEL

Hi all
Im hoping someone here can help me out or give me some good links to research.
Basically I have to go to a friend of mines work tomorrow as his witness in a disciplinary hearing. They have ok'd me to go even though I am not a work collegue.
If it all goes pear shaped he will most likely be getting a lift home with me after it , so thats what we really dont want to happen.
Im trying to find out what notes , recordings of this meeting etc I can take as the witness so we have some backup if it goes further.
I know I cannot be involved in the discussion I am there purely as his witness to proceedings.
What they are accusing him of doing I actually know for a fact he didnt do it. I do know the full story and its from more then one person as I know a number of people at this workplace.
This is in NSW by the way. If anyone has any info on what I can and cant do to make my best effort for this guy it will be appreciated.
Thanks.

you will have to advise them that your mate is going to be recording proceedings as a matter of course.

advise them that your friend is puely a witness to the case but he will be the one recording it. there is nothing saying you cannot do that.

make sure you get some background info on the presiding chairman. who is he, wether he is an old union hand or whatever, just then you know how best to approach the situation

but without knowing what he did its a bit difficult to give more accurate advice.

i used to work at holdens and got fired for "serious misconduct" even tho four people in the vicinty said i didnt do it

their final decision was "on the balance of probabilities i did do it" lol

wenjt to court , got overturned and holdens gave me a nice payout.

steamin63 · 10-02-2009, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ltd_on20s

you will have to advise them that your mate is going to be recording proceedings as a matter of course.

advise them that your friend is puely a witness to the case but he will be the one recording it. there is nothing saying you cannot do that.

make sure you get some background info on the presiding chairman. who is he, wether he is an old union hand or whatever, just then you know how best to approach the situation

but without knowing what he did its a bit difficult to give more accurate advice.

i used to work at holdens and got fired for "serious misconduct" even tho four people in the vicinty said i didnt do it

their final decision was "on the balance of probabilities i did do it" lol

wenjt to court , got overturned and holdens gave me a nice payout.

i was a union organizer for a few years and it is shocking how many times workers get stitched up by their managers for the most bogus reasons. an independent arbitrator is vital to ensure that everyone gets a fair hearing. in 4 years, 9 unfair dismissal claims , 9 reinstatements. the manager who did all of the firing got the sack himself for gross misconduct [ stealing and fraud ]. cheers.

IDT · 11-02-2009, 02:28 AM

As a mate of his, you have no rights whatsoever. His contract terms and conditions will spell out his rights.

My advise, if he is fearful of loosing his job, tell him to postpone and get an IR solicitor to attend.

As for unfair dismissals, yes the system is biased to employees, but more claims fail than pass. Also reinstatement is the preferred option of IR laws and employers like it because more often than not people just end up leaving because its never the same afterward.

If he does get booted, get him to ask for copies of all documents relating to the matter. That is his right. If the company has more than 100 employees, he has 7 days to apply for unfair dismissal with the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) (less than 100, I cant remeber but the IRC will tell him). The IRC forms are Forms 27/28 and/or 29 and the instructions if memory serves.

Let us know how he goes?

merlin · 11-02-2009, 10:25 AM

Kind of need more details to give better advice - but I can give you some from the other side of the table, as a manager who has been to countless disiplinary hearings including quite a few in the Industrial Relations Commission (though I gather its only at work not at court?).

Honesty, civilness and remorse will get you an extremley long way.

If he is guilty he should come clean, be completly honest, display genuine remorse for his actions and I am telling you I would give him the absolute lowest punishment I could within the guidelines. Trust me in most case employers have access to witnesses, information, CCTV ect to tell wether someone is guilty or not and they absolutley HATE being lied to and will hand down the worst punsihment. Admitting a mistake (even if its serious) is fine in my book, everyone makes mistakes in life.

If he is innocent, then he needs to make detailed point by point notes with dates ect. You would be there as a suppport person only not much you can do esxcept keep him calm. You both need to remain firm but very civil and polite - agression will get you no where (it will make it worse).

Above should apply to 90% of senior managers unfortunatly if you get the 10% of bad ones he may not have a chance until he can appeal. Good luck.

DoreSlamR · 11-02-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WAForce8

As a mate of his, you have no rights whatsoever. His contract terms and conditions will spell out his rights.

My advise, if he is fearful of loosing his job, tell him to postpone and get an IR solicitor to attend.

As for unfair dismissals, yes the system is biased to employees, but more claims fail than pass. Also reinstatement is the preferred option of IR laws and employers like it because more often than not people just end up leaving because its never the same afterward.

If he does get booted, get him to ask for copies of all documents relating to the matter. That is his right. If the company has more than 100 employees, he has 7 days to apply for unfair dismissal with the Industrial Relations Commission (IRC) (less than 100, I cant remeber but the IRC will tell him). The IRC forms are Forms 27/28 and/or 29 and the instructions if memory serves.

Let us know how he goes?

As someone who recently went through an unfair dismissal case, I know too well it isn't biased to employees.

I had written and photographic evidence of a person doing my job after I had been made redundant but I still had to pull out in the end because it was going to cost me $10-$15,000 to prove it.

Justice, it seems goes to those with the largest bank accounts. (Large companies) not the innocent

Sorry for the rant

**TUF_302** · 11-02-2009, 06:46 PM

What did they accuse him of?

dogwatch2 · 12-02-2009, 03:18 PM

Make sure that the company has followed their own disciplinary procedure, as detailed in Enterprise agreement etc. You would be surprised how often they don't, even well equiped HR departments. Defend any statements, ask for proof, not just hearsay etc, Good Luck.