LS Zetec Manual vs Auto

[jameseybuddy]

I finally received my Ztec on Friday, and I opted for the Semi Auto tranny. Would like some veiws on that vs a manual.

I personally beleive the semi auto is just as, if not more responsive once switched in to manual than an actual manual is, (no clutch helps), I took the Zetec for a quick windy coastal drive and used the manual(auto) instead of wasting my brakes.

I am suprised I could manage to contain myself as I noticed the Zetec handles like it is on rails. I pushed a little and still felt no major body roll or slipping traction. The tranny was responsive and changed gears instantly and at my request.

All I can say is I had my doubts about not purchasing a manual. All doubts gone.!!!

[kcbworth]

I've got a Semi-auto LX and while i'm still learning the 4 speed (is 1st gear exceptionally low or what?), it is definately very responsive and almost as if driving a manual. The only problem I ever have is that the gear displayed on the trip computer sometimes has a bit of a delay (half a second) in updating when downshifting, which causes me to shift down too far at times. Still learning. As for manual, didn't try one out but I don't see the need for it tbh.

[jameseybuddy]

I agree. There is no need for a manual car these days. I think it is a bit of an uUrban Myth that you need a manual to really drive fast or enjoy it.

[Forest Bear]

I dunno. I got an auto Zetec also and I find that the semi-auto is not terribly responsive at all especially getting out of first gear. I find that I have to tug the stick to + twice to get to 2nd. The throttle is very responsive and getting out of first seems very slow to respond so its very easy to rev up to 4-5000 before it responds and gets out of first. After that its okayish. Downshifts are much more responsive. The best fun is in 3rd.

Quite happy with auto. Good mileage too. I travelled from Yarraville to Mount Elisa (Vic) via Nepean freeway which is about a 60k journey one way and got 6.8l/100! A bit of hooning on the way too. Pretty darn good econ.

[WASP]

We have a LS Zetec manual and my wife is very happy with the performance and shift quality. While getting some work done on it she was given an auto Zetec and she told me it was surprising quick. The auto off the line in her words 'scared' her (she finds the GT frightening..lol). I didn't drive this auto Zetec but found her comments surprising.

Maybe you should get your auto checked out Forest Bear.

[Parasite]

Originally Posted by jameseybuddy

There is no need for a manual car these days.

I would prefer to save the cash.....

[orsest170]

Well the auto may feel as quick but it is appreciably slower according to the mags.

Manual: 0 - 100 = 8.98, 0 - 400 m = 16.43

Auto: 0 - 100 = 10.0, 0 - 400m = 17.2

It might not seem like much, but 0.8 secs down the quarter is actually a fair belting.

And yes there is definitely still a need for proper manual gear boxes, and as driving enthusiast I would never even entertain the thought of owning an automatic. While I don't doubt that autos can be fun to drive, it is simply not the same experience (and yes I have driven cars with these new tiptronic style boxes) as driving a manual car with a clutch. I like to drive my car, not have it drive me around.

I also think Ford should be applauded for offering the XR5 with a manual gear box only, as it is a true enthusiasts car, and there is no place for an auto in a car like this imo.

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by orsest170

I also think Ford should be applauded for offering the XR5 with a manual gear box only, as it is a true enthusiasts car, and there is no place for an auto in a car like this imo.

Rock on!

[Ford Grunt]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Rock on!

Yeah I also tend to agree.

I have always prefered driving manuals in 4 cyl cars (thou XR5 is 5 cyl), given that these smaller engines like/need to rev to extract performance from the engine, from my experience in the past autos seem to drain the performance too much in these smaller capacity engines in comparision, so not suprised by results posted by orsest170.

As oposed to say my XR6T which is a 4 speed tiptronic auto, which I wouldn't have anything else for the XR6T cause it has mountains of torque to push it along and gear changes are quick, power delivery is smooth and hard aceleration can be made through gear changes.

We drove a manual Zetec and found it to be fairly neat tidy gearbox, felt fairly 'zippy', admitely didn't drive an auto to compare.

Cheers,
Ford Grunt (Ben)

[jameseybuddy]

Originally Posted by orsest170

I like to drive my car, not have it drive me around.

I also think Ford should be applauded for offering the XR5 with a manual gear box only, as it is a true enthusiasts car, and there is no place for an auto in a car like this imo.

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I find it humourous to hear people mention they want to drive their car and not "be driven". Does it turn corners for you too? Does it brake and indicate? How does it drive you, last time I checked, I still had to press the accelerator.

Also, are real driver, is able to choose the gears that an auto will sit in. I can make an auto stay in 2nd 3rd if I want. Just because I am too lasy to push a clutch and I do not like the delay between clutch/accelerator in manuals, does not make me any less of an enthusiast. I agree the XR5 should not be auto purely from an aesthetic point of view.

[Parasite]

Originally Posted by orsest170

While I don't doubt that autos can be fun to drive, it is simply not the same experience (and yes I have driven cars with these new tiptronic style boxes) as driving a manual car with a clutch. I like to drive my car, not have it drive me around.

I gotta agree with this statement. My current car has a tiptronic trans and prior to this I had only ever driven manuals. It just is not the same and I will be going back to a manual for my next car (hopefully an XR5) :eclipsee_

[Forest Bear]

Come now gentlemen. Being able to drive a manual vehicle doesn't necessarily make you the better driver. Too many bad, incompetent drivers who drive manuals seem to latch on to this idea. Mind you terrible drivers are everywhere in every configuration. It all comes down to preference. I can drive both but I prefer an auto.

Proper drivers can control their cars when it goes off the rails, can negotiate bends at terrifying speeds, have good anticipation and razor sharp reflexes, smart enough to keep their demerit points. You can do all that with a manual or auto. Nothing gives me a bigger grin that passing big V8s and Celicas around a bend. The wusses.

Anyways, I like to make phone calls, send txt messages, eat my burger, apples, play with my mp3 player, have hands on girlfriends lap when I drive. They're much easier to do in an automatic.

[melbzetec]

This possibly exposes my poor driving technique, but the difference to me is the ability to have the car in neutral.

Sometimes when going into a corner, I have taken sufficient speed off with the brakes, but don't want to accelerate too early, so for a brief moment I have the clutch depressed, and car effectively in neutral, but keeping revs up with the accelerator, before accelerating out of the corner. Can't do this with a tiptronic style shift

Or am I just a lousy driver?

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by jameseybuddy

Also, are real driver, is able to choose the gears that an auto will sit in. I can make an auto stay in 2nd 3rd if I want. Just because I am too lasy to push a clutch and I do not like the delay between clutch/accelerator in manuals, does not make me any less of an enthusiast. I agree the XR5 should not be auto purely from an aesthetic point of view.

Wrong - the delay is LESS then the gearchange in an Auto. Also, with manauls (well till the future catches up) the manual has more gears, more ratios, and hence is more useable

[Teki04]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

This possibly exposes my poor driving technique, but the difference to me is the ability to have the car in neutral.

Sometimes when going into a corner, I have taken sufficient speed off with the brakes, but don't want to accelerate too early, so for a brief moment I have the clutch depressed, and car effectively in neutral, but keeping revs up with the accelerator, before accelerating out of the corner. Can't do this with a tiptronic style shift

Or am I just a lousy driver?

Never heard of that driving technique - brake into the corner, power out of the corner. Doing your method might cause burning the clutch, and maybe even wrecking the CV joint (???) when you pop the clutch and hence sent all the power to the wheels whilst cornering. Just a theory

[jameseybuddy]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Wrong - the delay is LESS then the gearchange in an Auto. Also, with manauls (well till the future catches up) the manual has more gears, more ratios, and hence is more useable

The delay is less BUT human error means it takes longer. I guaruntee you it takes less time for me to flick a stick into - or + than it does to push ina clutch and change gears. I do not understand why people think you can change gears in a manual quicker. Unless you are a pro racer, my semi auto zetec changes smoother than a manual.

I agree with the ratios, but technology isn't far behind.

[jameseybuddy]

Also because I do not have to stop accelerating I do not lose any revs.

[jameseybuddy]

Originally Posted by melbzetec

This possibly exposes my poor driving technique, but the difference to me is the ability to have the car in neutral.

Sometimes when going into a corner, I have taken sufficient speed off with the brakes, but don't want to accelerate too early, so for a brief moment I have the clutch depressed, and car effectively in neutral, but keeping revs up with the accelerator, before accelerating out of the corner. Can't do this with a tiptronic style shift

Or am I just a lousy driver?

You may not be a lousy driver, but you are definately a negligent one. You are gonna break something or someone driving like that!

The engine in the 2 litre Focus is borderline useful with auto as is with manual. With more power such as in a Falcon an auto is fine as it gives you ok performance. With a 1.5 auto is pretty struggling.

Reasons why I don't like auto:
1. I don't like the way the cars power is put down by fluid.
2. I don't like how the stall is set at a determined RPM
3. I don't like extra weight
4. I don't like lower power output
5. I don't like paying extra for a slower car
6. I don't like my girlfriend being able to drive my car.

Let me tell you this, unless your auto changes with a neckbreaking jolt ie with a shift kit installed, then your gear change, from the time when full power thats being transfered to the wheels is taken off, until the time when full power is returned to the wheels, manual, with a good driver, is faster with changing gears.

Also there is an electronic delay using the auto shifter? like push the lever down and it changes gear a sec or 2 later?

With manual as stated before, you have more ratios. If a 5sp auto does go into a Focus to match the 5 speed manual, the manual should still be faster, because the gearbox should be a heavier unit than the auto... Then you consider the power loss in the fluid.

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by Teki04

Never heard of that driving technique - brake into the corner, power out of the corner. Doing your method might cause burning the clutch, and maybe even wrecking the CV joint (???) when you pop the clutch and hence sent all the power to the wheels whilst cornering. Just a theory

So what do you do after you brake? Time it perfectly?

Brake, clutch in, drop down a gear, release clutch when you power out of the corner. Hard to describe, easier to do.

No burning clutches if your're matching engine speed to gearbox speed

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by jameseybuddy

You may not be a lousy driver, but you are definately a negligent one. You are gonna break something or someone driving like that!

So you don't depress the clutch when you brake? If you don't, you're powering the drivetrain AND braking. Surely that's when something will break.

Brake into the corner, depressing clutch at same time, drop down gear, re-engage the clutch when you are ready to power out of the corner. And with a manual, you control when that happens.

I am NOT talking about dropping the clutch (it will eventually break), but slowly releasing the clutch as you bring in the power, matching engine speed with gearbox speed

[jameseybuddy]

That's ok then you original description was a bit weird.

[jameseybuddy]

Originally Posted by BlackLS

Also there is an electronic delay using the auto shifter? like push the lever down and it changes gear a sec or 2 later?

With manual as stated before, you have more ratios. If a 5sp auto does go into a Focus to match the 5 speed manual, the manual should still be faster, because the gearbox should be a heavier unit than the auto... Then you consider the power loss in the fluid.

As I have previously stated before, I agree with the ratio issue. My auto shifter does not have a delay. I push the lever, I change gear. Not one or two seconds, maybe half a second at the most. I'll happily admit that the display has a delay, I'll be in 2nd for two seconds before the delay says so, but I do not use that display to tell me what gear I am in.

Manuals a good, but ultimately, I am a lazy F&^%er and if I can drive an auto through bulk traffic, but still have fun on a nice coastal road, I'll pick and auto will sports shift any day.

BTW the euro version of the Zetec has an adjustable auto trans. Can adjust from sports mode to normal, as the same with the steering.

[melbzetec]

Originally Posted by jameseybuddy

That's ok then you original description was a bit weird.

Yeh, sorry about that. Do it a thousand times, but a bit odd to describe

[WASP]

Originally Posted by Forest Bear

Anyways, I like to make phone calls, send txt messages, eat my burger, apples, play with my mp3 player, have hands on girlfriends lap when I drive. They're much easier to do in an automatic.

I think you just may have undermined your own point right there. Haven't you seen the ads? A 'good' driver would never attempt to do any of those things while driving..lol:

On a serious note, one of the problems with automatics (and I like them as well) is that you are more likely to create distractions for yourself while driving. Driving a manual will not guarantee this won't happen but it may help decrease the opportunuies.

[jameseybuddy]

Fair call

[orsest170]

Originally Posted by jameseybuddy

While I agree with a lot of what you say, I find it humourous to hear people mention they want to drive their car and not "be driven". Does it turn corners for you too? Does it brake and indicate? How does it drive you, last time I checked, I still had to press the accelerator.

Also, are real driver, is able to choose the gears that an auto will sit in. I can make an auto stay in 2nd 3rd if I want. Just because I am too lasy to push a clutch and I do not like the delay between clutch/accelerator in manuals, does not make me any less of an enthusiast. I agree the XR5 should not be auto purely from an aesthetic point of view.

My comment is a ‘figure of speech’ i.e. not meant to be taken literally. Of course the car does not literally drive itself, my point is that not even having to think about changing gears really can make driving a car a total no brainer and really take away the enjoyment of driving imo. This is especially true when driving your car ‘enthusiastically’, where getting your gear selection and the timing of changes right, is half the fun. Many car manufacturers acknowledge this, and hence they offer certain sports models in manual form only.

Also having the ability to manually shift in an auto is not the same. I’ve spoken to people who have these tiptronic style boxes and really rate them – for about a month. Then, inevitably the novelty wears off, and they end up driving almost entirely in auto mode thereafter.

It’s not about being “better” or “real” drivers (I did not even imply this), and I don’t doubt that people who drive auto’s can still be car lovers, but I think a true enthusiast will go the manual box every time. And, if you are too lazy to depress a clutch, then frankly yes, it probably does make you less of an enthusiast.

I respect people’s right to choose an auto over a manual, but to suggest that there is no place left for manual gear boxes in modern cars is totally absurd.

[kcbworth]

Originally Posted by CDAA

On a serious note, one of the problems with automatics (and I like them as well) is that you are more likely to create distractions for yourself while driving. Driving a manual will not guarantee this won't happen but it may help decrease the opportunuies.

I dunno... i find all the overhead of a driving a manual much more distracting. Particularly in a tight situation.

[kcbworth]

Originally Posted by orsest170

Also having the ability to manually shift in an auto is not the same. I’ve spoken to people who have these tiptronic style boxes and really rate them – for about a month. Then, inevitably the novelty wears off, and they end up driving almost entirely in auto mode thereafter.

To me this is just an indication that given the choice, many people prefer auto. The novelty of the manual wears off and then people just want to get to where theyre going without too much stress, while feeling safe and in control. I expect these same people would have a go at the tiptronic again when they feel like having an enthusiast moment?

[Talldude]

you save petrol and most importantly manual cars help with braking.

i hate how automatic cars change gears mid corner when u apply power it can be dangerous on a wet road (trust me i know).

if you just want a car to get u there without stress dont buy a sports car or anything sporty. i like manuals cause i feel like im in control and makes driving fun not a chore.