P Plate Kilowatts.

Zaxx · 14-01-2010, 02:02 PM

Hi all.

Still on the L's and doing some work on my 04' XR.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...=1#post3010316

However, when the rule book states that a P platers car can not be any more than 200 Kilowatts, does that refer to Flywheel kws? or RWkws..

Because if it's RW.. it opens up a whole bunch of stuff I can do..

Cheers guys.

BOSHOG · 14-01-2010, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by One Six

Hi all.

Still on the L's and doing some work on my 04' XR.
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...=1#post3010316

However, when the rule book states that a P platers car can not be any more than 200 Kilowatts, does that refer to Flywheel kws? or RWkws..

Because if it's RW.. it opens up a whole bunch of stuff I can do..

Cheers guys.

its flywheel.

Wink · 14-01-2010, 02:12 PM

Police would have to know his to be able to have a really good guess that the engine is producing more then 200kW at the wheels. Don't missbehave and you should be fine. Though insurance would be another issue as well.

I am a P plater and going to be wanting around 160-180 rwkW. Just don't be a dick and you should be right.

RedHotGT · 14-01-2010, 02:14 PM

last time i checked.... police cars don't have dyno's hooked up...

Maybe they're using that iPhone dyno applet?? *(previous thread)*

I thought the rule was 125kw per tonne... which made most cars available ?
But to be fair - its been a long time since I was a P Plater...

Kryton · 14-01-2010, 02:29 PM

I also thought that you could not have any performance enhancing modifications.
This also includes simple things like air cleaners and exhausts etc.

So really, it doesnt matter how many KW's you have, any mods are your getting done anyway - then your insurer has a reason to void you as well.

Coogs289 · 14-01-2010, 02:33 PM

In Victoria it's 125kw per tonne.

Cheers, Anthony

MYVYSS · 14-01-2010, 02:34 PM

Yep in Vic it is 125 killer wasps per Tonne..

ROLLI · 14-01-2010, 02:38 PM

Sure is 125kw per tonne. I was just allowed to drive my dads EB GT cant beleive he used to let me....

mrbaxr6t · 14-01-2010, 02:41 PM

then a nonturbo focus would be extremely close to 125kw per tonne wouldn't it?

if not over that?

buggo · 14-01-2010, 03:17 PM

A focus CL has 107Kw@1268Kg
=(107/1268)*1000
=84.4Kw/T

An XR5T has 166Kw@1437Kg
=(166/1437)*1000
=115.5Kw/T

Still within 125Kw limit, however, being that the XR is turbo'd, I don't know if its legal. Vic is alot different to NSW with these laws.

Coogs289 · 14-01-2010, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by buggo_gt

A focus CL has 107Kw@1268Kg
=(107/1268)*1000
=84.4Kw/T

An XR5T has 166Kw@1437Kg
=(166/1437)*1000
=115.5Kw/T

Still within 125Kw limit, however, being that the XR is turbo'd, I don't know if its legal. Vic is alot different to NSW with these laws.

Illegal, no turbo or supercharged vehicles allowed :(

XW 393 · 14-01-2010, 04:58 PM

Which is silly because now there are a whole bunch of turbo diesel cars that are not allowed by default.

Kryton · 14-01-2010, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XW 393

Which is silly because now there are a whole bunch of turbo diesel cars that are not allowed by default.

and if you took the time to actually read the rules, you would see that Turbo Diesels are exempt.
You can drive them.

Kamshaaft · 14-01-2010, 05:46 PM

Why bother taking the time to read th rules? They're a bunch of bureaucratic doggy doo and uneducated fanny waffle. The only thing, and I mean, th only thing that matters, is power to weight ratio. I will concede though that the regulation of forced induction is fair enough, as it rules out anyone fiddling with the boost controller and changing power output on the fly.

But banning cars by number of cylinders on the grossly uneducated and simplistic mind that it means anything at all is just ridiculous. But you can never correct bureaucrats. They're always right.

r3dfutura · 14-01-2010, 05:46 PM

It is not 125kw/tonne in victoria. Taken direct from vicroads

OLD DEFENITION of probationary prohibited vehicle (prior to 1 July 2007)
A vehicle which has;

a power to mass ratio which exceeds 125 kW per tonne; or
an engine capacity which exceeds 3.5 litres per tonne of the unladen mass (tare) of the motor vehicle

New definition of probationary prohibited vehicle (from 1 July 2007)
A vehicle that;

has an engine with eight cylinders or more, or
has an engine that is turbocharged or supercharged (other than a diesel powered vehicles listed in Table 1 below). There are also some lower powered turbocharged or supercharged vehicles which have been exempted and can be operated by a probationary driver who has been given an exemption by VicRoads. Refer to lower performance turbocharged or supercharged vehicles and exemptions.
has an engine that has been modified to increase the vehicle's performance (other than a modification made by the manufacturer in the course of the manufacture of the vehicle , or
a nominated high performance six cylinder engine. Refer to Table 2 below.

http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...edvehicles.htm

Kamshaaft · 14-01-2010, 05:53 PM

As a side note, what's the point of the restriction of 3.5 litres per tonne displacement? Are there even any road registerable vehicles in existance that exceed that limit and don't violate the 125kw per tonne & forced induction being outlawed??

That one's just bizarre.

Coogs289 · 14-01-2010, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

As a side note, what's the point of the restriction of 3.5 litres per tonne displacement? Are there even any road registerable vehicles in existance that exceed that limit and don't violate the 125kw per tonne & forced induction being outlawed??

That one's just bizarre.

So if that's the case the rules are basically:

Must be under 125kw per tonne.
Only 4 & 6 cylinders (excluding some 6's)
Can't be turbo or supercharged. (excluding some turbo diesel)

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Cheers, Anthony

FPV8U · 14-01-2010, 06:58 PM

Didn't Volkswagen apply for an exemption on its 2.0L Turbos?

Bit of a hint, if your on the old system (Not the new, no mods one..) they won't know or be able to "Guess" what a car is making, keep it simple with CAI, Exhaust & Tune and you won't have any dramas.

kezzer · 14-01-2010, 07:01 PM

I'm fairly sure my FG is illegal, with all its mods, being on my p plates and all in Victoria, been pulled over before (boozebus), cops have never said anything.

I think the 200kw and 125kw per tonne is a stupid rule, a VE SIDI 210kw would be illegal, but my FG stock is faster, but completly legal...

Further, the 175kw/400nm xr8 would be illegal, but the fg 195kw/400nm (premium fuel) is not illegal lol.

Franco Cozzo · 14-01-2010, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by velocity_avisGT

In Victoria it's 125kw per tonne.

Cheers, Anthony

Not anymore, RX8s anyone?

You CAN get an exemption for a turbo car as long as its one of those 1.4L TSI Volkswagens or between 100-125Kw/tonne, 4 door non sports orientated family car but its done on a case by case example. I was asking about getting an exemption to drive a Toyota Aristo but they said they wanted me to fill out all the forms, so that pretty much meant I had to buy the car before I could check if I could be allowed to drive it.

So, no we can't drive Ford F350s because they have V8s and its seen as a "high powered vehicle" but the FG Falcon is fine.

Kryton · 14-01-2010, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Why bother taking the time to read th rules? They're a bunch of bureaucratic doggy doo and uneducated fanny waffle. The only thing, and I mean, th only thing that matters, is power to weight ratio. I will concede though that the regulation of forced induction is fair enough, as it rules out anyone fiddling with the boost controller and changing power output on the fly.

But banning cars by number of cylinders on the grossly uneducated and simplistic mind that it means anything at all is just ridiculous. But you can never correct bureaucrats. They're always right.

Why bother?
Because they are the rules - as a road user, you should know them.
Regardless of what you think is right or wrong, the rules are the rules.
They are there and you have to abide by them - no ifs or buts.

If you dont like it, then walk.

XW 393 · 14-01-2010, 08:40 PM

Time for a new pair of shoes.

Kryton · 14-01-2010, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XCPWSF

**edited**

And that has nothing at all to do with road rules does it.

The rules have been made - no one stood up and did anything about it at the time, so there no point complaining about it now.
Break the rules all you want, dont come here and whinge when you get a fine, get your car impounded, crash your car, not have your insurance paid out, lose your license or kill someone.
I could care less.

Franco Cozzo · 14-01-2010, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

And that has nothing at all to do with road rules does it.

The rules have been made - no one stood up and did anything about it at the time, so there no point complaining about it now.
Break the rules all you want, dont come here and whinge when you get a fine, get your car impounded, crash your car, not have your insurance paid out, lose your license or kill someone.
I could care less.

I have a Ford Fiesta, I'm not killing anyone any time soon. I was merely stating my opinion on your statement. The reason no one stood up for us is because everyone gangs up on us, sure probably 70% of P platers are , but not all of us are? Since when does an 18 year old's opinion matter in the whole scheme of things? Sure we can vote and are considered "Adults" by the law but no one takes us seriously.

I would have liked a system for example, you have little restrictions, but if you get caught speeding/hooning/breaking rules you get harsh fines and get bumped down to full restrictions and have to sell your powerful car by law.

I am fully accountable for my own actions and I know that, you won't see me coming to the forums crying if I got fines for anything.

I know my place in society, hence why I didn't register to vote, my opinion doesn't matter in the big scheme of things so why bother?

chrisfpv · 14-01-2010, 08:48 PM

I'm on red P plates, drive a BA XR6 with Quad exhaust tips and have a nice note to my car and was recently pulled over after a police car pulled out casually behind me.

They thought my car was a Turbo and didn't even mention the exhaust.

**Dave R** · 14-01-2010, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kezzer

I'm fairly sure my FG is illegal, with all its mods, being on my p plates and all in Victoria, been pulled over before (boozebus), cops have never said anything.

I think the 200kw and 125kw per tonne is a stupid rule, a VE SIDI 210kw would be illegal, but my FG stock is faster, but completly legal...

Further, the 175kw/400nm xr8 would be illegal, but the fg 195kw/400nm (premium fuel) is not illegal lol.

I never copped any trouble either, I guess it comes down to how you treat the coppers. Also, FGs on premium do 205/420nm, yet AU1 XR8s are not legal

:

Also, to the threadstarter, you'd have to do some pretty heavy work to get a BA N/A 6 near 200rwkw.

Franco Cozzo · 14-01-2010, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

I never copped any trouble either, I guess it comes down to how you treat the coppers. Also, FGs on premium do 205/420nm, yet AU1 XR8s are not legal

:

Also, to the threadstarter, you'd have to do some pretty heavy work to get a BA N/A 6 near 200rwkw.

That JMM place does a drive in drive out thing for 175rwkw for about $7500 I think in Melbourne, for EA-BF Falcons.

What you could do is just save up the cash and buy a powerful car the day you suddenly have had your Ps for 4 years and turn into a mature, fully licensed driver. Or do up a car over the 4 years on P plates. Or instead of using your money on illegal car modifications, spend it on illicit drugs and alcohol, thats the next best thing and you'll get treated the same by the media anyways.

block58 · 14-01-2010, 09:02 PM

So all V8s are banned, regardless of power:weight ratio?

Franco Cozzo · 14-01-2010, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by block58

So all V8s are banned, regardless of power:weight ratio?

Yes, there is no power to weight ratio laws any more here in Victoria, just blanket ban on V8s and forced induction*.

* - can apply for exemptions on turbo cars.

Kamshaaft · 14-01-2010, 09:20 PM

I hope this is all on-topic enough, if not I wil get technical if that helps.

If you want me to break it all down, provide sources, studies, and suchforth, just ask. I've got all night (well, until I go out, but that's much later) - and I've put dozens of hours into the subject. So try me, just try me, what are you waiting for? Come on..

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

Why bother?
Because they are the rules - as a road user, you should know them.
Regardless of what you think is right or wrong, the rules are the rules.
They are there and you have to abide by them - no ifs or buts.

If you dont like it, then walk.

To who do you think you're preaching to mate? I made no mention nor endorsement of driving in a dangerous or irresponsible manner.
Is it too much for some to allow others to express unfair legislation that effects the freedom of many (admittedly, does not directly effect myself), without any scientific basis or limited & debated at best? Legislation that was rashly, and sometimes irresponsibly, introduced not to cut road tolls but to put graphite marks in the right boxes at the polls?

Or is it a moral thing, is there some sort of moral precedent I am not understanding, that means I should not object to a situation where (for the most part) inexperienced and boisterous drivers often cannot drive their vehicle of choice, while at the same time the legislation preventing them from doing so features otherwise largely irresponsible inconsistencies?

Whilst you digest, I shall digress:

Perhaps in order to avoid uneccessarily offending someone and cultivating hostility, one should refrain from using the term 'you' when addressing an issue or statement in a condescending manner, or else you are merely creating a shallowly valued confrontation.

'You' is targeted. Depersonalise it by using 'one'. I'm not here to make friends (though there is a great community on this forum) but I'd be riding over uncomfortabley rough teritory on a higher horse (and a hypocrite) to mention that it's poor form, so instead of acting like that buck-toothed holier-than-thou fish faced witch from Ladette to Lady, I would just beg one to think of the teachings of elected/chosen deity.

I do them understand the road rules, very well and in several states as it happens. It would be rather arrogant for me to make a statement about them without knowing them all, wouldn't you think? Know thy enemy. I like to keep up to date with this pet subject.

As for serving up an ultimatum, here's one for you: Mind your manners, or get snotted.

Hakuna Matata.