New car thoughts

[GTP owner]

Just though i would put this out there and see what ideas people throw up - prefer sensible ones, not "this car is ace and others suck".

Also, serious modding for the ford stuff is not really on the cards. There is only 1 workshop in tas with the ability to tune late model fords and i am not really full of confidence in their skills yet.

Ok, so what am i looking at.
1. gte. There is a thread in the fpv section where i have written about my drive in the gte demonstrator that is at this moment sitting in my carport.
Price $68,000 drive away price.
Good - engine, it is fast enough for a daily driver, front end bite and ability to seriously carve up corners, sound, 6,500rpm redline :1syellow1 , nice interior, it's a ford!
Not so good - it is slower than the current bf xr6t, woodgrain grandpa bits, seats are not as comfy for me, v8s should be manual, needs louder exhaust.

2. Audi rs4.
Price $110,000 second hand with 20,000km.
Good - seriously fast, sounds horn, retain value better as most depreciation in done, 4 wheel drive is suited to tassie wet roads better than rear drivers, subtle, rare (only 2 in Tas), and the wife seriously wants one.
Bad - not much room in the back. We have 3 kids, and they are a bit squeezy - maybe i should leave them behind. Not much else is bad.

3. f6
I can't get one for a test drive here in tas. They sell every one as soon as it hits the showroom. I have driven 3 ba-bf f6s, and they were all great, but left me wanting a v8. Fast yes, but soulless. So i bought a xr6t and it went faster than all 3 i had driven. And it would have to be an auto.
Good - seriously fast, best handling aussie car out there.
Bad - it's not a v8 (for those of you who are not v8 men you probably won't understand, but that is just me), sounds like a vacuum, fg is uglier than ba series (in my opinion - but then again i am the one buying), will i get bored of it in 2 years and wish it was a v8?

4. hsv senator manual.
I have driven a few of the hsv products now and i have been impressed. I like the looks, especially the senator's understated styling. 20 inch wheels yes please.
Good - mrc, handling at the limit leaves the gte behind, 20 inches of wheels, sounds horn, does't look like a boy racer, i can get it tuned here in tas, including cam and chip.
Bad - it's a holden, reliability?, dash looks crap, will it rattle after 50,000km?

So your thoughts? I don't want a winged warrior, or a highly modified streeter (i have a race car for that). I want something for the family that the missus will be happy to drive and not attract the wrong kind of attention.

[Falcon Coupe]

I want something for the family that the missus will be happy to drive and not attract the wrong kind of attention.

The GTE sounds like it fits the bill, you know you want it and came to the right place for conformation.

[HSE2]

There is a F6 available to test drive in Devonport.

The Audi is the stand out car there but is still in a different price range to the rest of the cars in your list.

The quality of the Audi is the best part but even at 110k there is still a lot of depreciation left in this market especially in this state.

They also get clinical the more you drive them.

[zx10]

This might sound a bit silly, but why not look at the GT/GTP and if you want the subtle look get the boot lid changed.

Have you sat in the GT or GTP seats? Could be a better fit?

Just an idea, goodluck with your search. Very nice quandary you are in.

[Fair302]

Audi, stuff the kids!

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by Fair302

Audi, stuff the kids!

Maybe i could put them on a starvation diet! 3sticks in the back seat would fit easy enough :evil_laug

[GTP owner]

boot lid change is a possibility. I could also colur code the racoon eyes. The seats in my ba gt-p are perfect. The new ones feel exactly the same. The gt-e seats are the leather without suede - so you slide around a lot more. The kids thought it was hilarious going for a fang - slip sliding away!
The bolsters are also a lot softer in the gte. They remind me of an old farimont ghia i used for a while.

The comment about the audi becoming clinical by hse2 - is this from experience? I am intersted to hear more.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

boot lid change is a possibility. I could also colur code the racoon eyes. The seats in my ba gt-p are perfect. The new ones feel exactly the same. The gt-e seats are the leather without suede - so you slide around a lot more. The kids thought it was hilarious going for a fang - slip sliding away!
The bolsters are also a lot softer in the gte. They remind me of an old farimont ghia i used for a while.

The comment about the audi becoming clinical by hse2 - is this from experience? I am intersted to hear more.

Yeah I have had a bit to do with Audi but that is just my opinion and I seriously suspect I would be in the minority on this point. I have had the pleasure of doing some Audi drive days and media sessions and have been able to hold onto some of the cars for a while. Given you have located a car that you are interested in, there is no point giving you the names of some good guys that would look after you. I assume you are dealing in the south.

I only offer it up in response to some of what you have commented on in terms of feed back in a driving experience.

They tend to do nearly everything so easily that in my case the pure enjoyment of driving is diminished over time. BMW and Merc offer a different experience altogether and obtained at a different level of input. Technically inferior in many ways but yet more involving and to me that part of having a relationship with car and road.

It is the stand out car in your list but it is so different in nearly every respect to the cars that surround it.

Re the F6

We have just gone through a similar experience with a good friend. Had the F6 for the weekend then purchased an Fg XR6 T. Got one of those 45k deals, which made it unbeatable value, but in the end although the F6 had noticeably more grunt, my mate decided it wasn't enough to ignore the XR6T package.

I note you came to the same conclusion as well.

I notice Tilfords still had the GT-P in the showroom along with the GT-E.

When it comes to the GT-E FPV just haven't done enough to make it fit that nitch. Rod claims it’s not a senator competitor and shouldn't be compared against it, yet time after time you hear of people doing just that.

The driving experience and I dare say the ownership experience is just better in the HSV in this particular instance.

However the FG is the best Ford product ever. I wouldn't walk past the GT-P for either the HSV or the GT-E but I would go the Senator over the GT-E.

I simply don’t object enough to the styling to make it an issue. All I know is that the FG XR6 + T GT /GT-P is that far above anything Ford have put on the road to date it’s not funny. It’s not a small margin.

If it comes down to money and the GT-E offers the best deal then why not?

I guess the other thing to keep in mind is that HSV have an upgrade coming and we have a new engine coming.

[snappy]

personally i would love anyone of those cars , but top would be the hsv,gte
But really love the g6et have you looked at those

I throw this out there what about a evo 10 it is 10 now isn't . I never driven one but awd for your tassie roads and a serious performer.

[4Vman]

Great dilema to have.. ive been frequenting my Audi dealer recently, they are really warming on me.
Sounds like the GT-E or Senator are the only ones that will fit the bill.

[GTP owner]

Good comments. We are thinking of making an offer on the gtp in the showroom - better seats and it is manual, but it would have to be the same price as the gte drive away.
I take the comments about the audi on board.

As for the gte not being a senator rival - rubbish. Same price and equipment spec, same market.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Good comments. We are thinking of making an offer on the gtp in the showroom - better seats and it is manual, but it would have to be the same price as the gte drive away.
I take the comments about the audi on board.

As for the gte not being a senator rival - rubbish. Same price and equipment spec, same market.

Well that’s FPV s view. I agree it should be but the problem is no, it doesn't have the same equipment or levels of equipment. The senator is a fair bit ahead when you have a good look at its specs. 20 inch rim option and MRC are two technical stand outs as is a manual option and then there are seat trim and minor detailing issues a car in this segment should have covered.
MRC in the GT-S isn’t as big a difference as it is with the senator as it does have a better compromise calibration. I note you found that yourself.

Cars in this segment focus more on luxury and to be honest Ford still don’t offer the full complement of items expected in this segment. We still don’t have one touch up for crist sake, let alone HID beams. The Senator enjoys a better stereo too and have they fitted electric adjustment to the front passenger seat in the GT-E yet? Not sure myself but I didn’t think they had.

These cars are about luxury appointments and as such the GT-E falls short in direct competition with the Senator, which is why FPV make the claims they do. I have made this an issue with Rod before and on this point I have to agree with Rod. Looking at it the way FPV do then they are right the GT-E shouldn’t be seen as a senator competitor. Problem is, we the consumer think of it as such, simply because it should be.

[4Vman]

The GTE in EGO is a seriously handsome vehicle... id be hard pressed to over look that even if a Senator was cheaper.

[denbakkj]

hey guys, im new to forums.
just wondered if you have considered an m5. For about the same as an rs4 you get a roomy v10 beemer thatll fit all the kids.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by denbakkj

hey guys, im new to forums.
just wondered if you have considered an m5. For about the same as an rs4 you get a roomy v10 beemer thatll fit all the kids.

Great car but you could buy the F6, GTE and Senator for the price of a new M5...

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by denbakkj

hey guys, im new to forums.
just wondered if you have considered an m5. For about the same as an rs4 you get a roomy v10 beemer thatll fit all the kids.

It’s a love or hate engine though. It’s one of those engines where you have to go looking for the performance. The Germans tend to like revs, which is ok because they do it so nicely.

It’s a bit like the M3 and the C63. The M3 will probably kill it on a track or nice piece of road but that response and sound that is so alluring and so easy in the AMG will get a lot of bums in seats. Some of the German equipment is so good it’s cold or at the other end insane. The V10 M5 is now considered to be in the insane category and it’s a safe bet to assume it will disappear in the next iteration.

[Smoke Pursuit]

GTE

You wont regret it, i love my Boss 315.. what a great package...

Try and screw them on price tho!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by bfiipursuit

GTE

You wont regret it, i love my Boss 315.. what a great package...

Try and screw them on price tho!

I reakon you can find a low K demonstrator GTE for under 60K drive away now... incredible value, Try getting a Senator for that.

[duaned]

I would wait around to see if FPV release the F6E, what more could you want in the way of performance combined with luxury to boot? Thank goodness the have body coloured raccoon eyes on the prototype!

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by duaned

I would wait around to see if FPV release the F6E, what more could you want in the way of performance combined with luxury to boot? Thank goodness the have body coloured raccoon eyes on the prototype!

Unless there's an increase in interest for the F6E soon it may not happen...
Besides.. its missing 2 extra cylinders that the OP yearns for!!

[Wally]

Interesting thread, GTP owner. You ask a question on a dedicated Ford site about cars that most here wouldn't even dream about buying new, ask for sensible input then throw in a couple of folklore negatives on the Senator. Are you serious, or just peacocking that you may have the means to buy something a little upmarket? Seriously, if you are out to spend upwards of $110k, you are not in the league of asking forums for advice, you will buy on what you are comfortable with.

[HSE2]

Originally Posted by Wally

Interesting thread, GTP owner. You ask a question on a dedicated Ford site about cars that most here wouldn't even dream about buying new, ask for sensible input then throw in a couple of folklore negatives on the Senator. Are you serious, or just peacocking that you may have the means to buy something a little upmarket? Seriously, if you are out to spend upwards of $110k, you are not in the league of asking forums for advice, you will buy on what you are comfortable with.

What sort of reply is that?

Doesn't matter how much money one might have, people always want to run ideas past others especially when they feel comfortable with the audience they are asking just to get another perspective.

It goes without saying that everyone will eventually end up doing what they feel comfortable with. These days’ people like to research and like it or not, part of that diligence is asking forums or open media for opinions. Sometimes you might just get a reply that makes you think about something else you may not have naturally thought about.

Your reply is neither useful nor purposeful. Had you wanted to be, you could have set us right on the negatives for the Senator folklore or not. That would have been beneficial to the author’s request.

[Wally]

Oh come on, get real. Unless this bloke has come in for a windfall via lottery or inheritence, that $110k is from wages. To be be in that bracket requires an astute mind and one that isn't accustomed to mob mentality and bias.

I wouldn't buy a Senator, but then I wouldn't be asking advice, then leading in with negatives on the choices either. It's bound to solicit parroted and truncated responses from the wannabes. It's akin to posting on a dedicated Holden board and throwing in some forum favourite negatives on the Falcon (which irks me too).

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Wally

Interesting thread, GTP owner. You ask a question on a dedicated Ford site about cars that most here wouldn't even dream about buying new, ask for sensible input then throw in a couple of folklore negatives on the Senator. Are you serious, or just peacocking that you may have the means to buy something a little upmarket? Seriously, if you are out to spend upwards of $110k, you are not in the league of asking forums for advice, you will buy on what you are comfortable with.

You're kidding yourself arent you???
Everyone's just about had enough of your continual negative trolling...

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by Wally

Interesting thread, GTP owner. You ask a question on a dedicated Ford site about cars that most here wouldn't even dream about buying new, ask for sensible input then throw in a couple of folklore negatives on the Senator. Are you serious, or just peacocking that you may have the means to buy something a little upmarket? Seriously, if you are out to spend upwards of $110k, you are not in the league of asking forums for advice, you will buy on what you are comfortable with.

I am a ford man at heart, but have owned a few fast commodores over the years. Yes i am serious about what to buy next. I have considered the w427, M5, c63amg, and m3, but all have their faults that rule them out decisively. I love my fast fords, and if a gtho was out i would have one in an instant.

As for asking forums for advice - i like to take in all opinions. I am a professional who is now studying medicine at Uni of tasmania. You seem to have a prejudice against those who frequent here. I am no such snob.

Finally, the folklore about the senator - i was just asking the question. Many indicate that they feel old very quickly. Tex has had some experience with clubsport r8s, and although they are fast, they can feel very tired very quickly.

[Wally]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

I am a ford man at heart, but have owned a few fast commodores over the years. Yes i am serious about what to buy next. I have considered the w427, M5, c63amg, and m3, but all have their faults that rule them out decisively. I love my fast fords, and if a gtho was out i would have one in an instant.

As for asking forums for advice - i like to take in all opinions. I am a professional who is now studying medicine at Uni of tasmania. You seem to have a prejudice against those who frequent here. I am no such snob.

Finally, the folklore about the senator - i was just asking the question. Many indicate that they feel old very quickly. Tex has had some experience with clubsport r8s, and although they are fast, they can feel very tired very quickly.

**Edited**

I am with you when it comes to the Senator, they are handsome, but date as quickly as the next commodore model hits the showrooms. They do have the V8 though. The Falcon is in a similar boat in that they are variations on the same base model theme. The Euro cars are nicely made, but I find them rather beige and fairly ordinary after a while, whereas the Holdens and Falcons satisfy my preference for a bit of rough power.

As far as the rattles, well I have an early model VE and it hasn't one rattle after 65000km, the console is what it is and while not an Audi command centre it's not ugly to my eye and yes its a Holden. You can draw your own conclusions whether I'm a snob... I own a Commodore and earn a pretty good income. PM me if you want an unbiased opinion on the VE warts and all.

[Dave_au]

Just on the resale issue, If our economy gets worse then prestige car prices (and resale) will be one of the items that suffers most, especially in Tasmania that traditionally has not been able to support a massive prestige market in the first place.

How bad can it get?

Well in the UK you can pick up an 2003 Aston Martin Vanquish for $49,250 (about AUD $99,000).
http://www.buyyourcar.co.uk/used-car...s_3225609.aspx

(RRP when new AUD$575,000; RRP 2nd hand in Australia $220,000 - $240,000);

[flappist]

HSE2 have a bit of a look around for Ausdi RS6. I spotted a couple for around 100k and they are a 370-460kw (depending on model) twin turbo V8 4 door sedan that looks like a "normal" car.

Of the Fords, I am still waiting for the F6-E although I just got an email from FPV alluding "don't hold your breath" so although I really like the styling of the GT-E I am a chronic rev head and would just be disappointed after a short time.

If absolute performance is not the primary motive then the GT-E or even the G6ET are definitely winners.

On the other hand if you are going to modifiy it as soon as you buy it without regard to warranty then everything is the same so get the cheapest.

[Polyal]

Dont want to rain on your party but the best thing about the local product is that comparatively the running costs are alot less. Now I dont know your situation but I wont assume you cant afford to fully service the RS4; I dont know the $$$ but it wont be pretty. Cracker car though.

I would walk right past the GTE unless its a really really good deal; as mentioned previously FPV really are not trying.

Agreed with DaveAU aswell, the kraut will depreciate more than that, have you looked on the mainland aswell? Tasmanians seem to think they are from a different country and that other prices dont effect here...wrong.

edit: while it is not on the list what about a G6ET optioned up?

[BA GT-HO]

Ever thought about a BMW 135i?

They are about $90k once you pay all the taxes etc and option them up a bit brand new, or about $75-$80k for something 2nd hand or demo with less that 15,000kms.

It has the twin turbo inline 6, 3ltr, 225kw, (I am pretty sure it has cleaned up Engine of the Year awards) 6 speed manual if you want and weighs about 1400kg. Various youtube videos have shown it runs low to flat 13's over the 1/4 mile. Then there is the option of fiddling with the boost! (Goodbye 3yr warranty tho!) Allegedly it is pretty roomy in the rear also.

Top Gear oz brought my attention to this car, it is quite the 'bargain' from BMW right now.