Vic P plate laws have changed (again)

[Daymoe]

Well, not what I was hoping for, but:

P-platers will shortly be able to apply for exemption permits for vehicles including:
• Turbocharged and supercharged vehicles with a power to weight ratio of less than 100kW per tonne; and
• Turbocharged and supercharged vehicles with a power to weight ratio between 100kW and 125kW per tonne,that are fuel-efficient and considered to be a family type vehicle rather than a sports type vehicle, to be exempted by permit letter.

Under changes that came in place after 1 July 2008 probationary licence holders are prevented from driving a vehicle if it:
• Has an engine of eight or more cylinders;
• Has a turbocharged or supercharged engine (except diesel powered vehicles);
• Has an engine modified to increase its performance;
• Is considered a high powered six cylinder vehicle; and
• Is not a vehicle exempt as published in the Victorian Gazette.

Whats a turbo'd car with a P:W ratio of less than 100Kw/Tonne?

“This is a common sense approach, meaning young drivers won’t be able to drive the sports type, six-cylinder supercharged Holden Monaro, but would be able to apply for exemptions to drive the family fuel-efficient car.”

Supercharged 6 cylinder Holden Monaro? Thats a first.

http://www.premier.vic.gov.au/minist...g-drivers.html

[Falcon Coupe]

It seems these changes are for diesels, most petrol cars would go over.

The supercharged Monaro has been around since 2003, it was an average effort, the Barra 182 had more go.

[Fordman]

oh lame, i just want them to change the 1 passenger rule tbh

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by = Fordman =

oh lame, i just want them to change the 1 passenger rule tbh

Me too, a mate got busted and copped 3 points 2 weeks after he got his Ps, they asked him to open his boot and there was someone passed out in there lol.

Don't bag out smart cars, I'm sure they'd move pretty well with a Suzuki Hyabusa motorbike engine in them haha.

[Stattic]

ermmm i think there would be a few jap boxes that fall under 100kw/tonne
the ca18det turbo out of some of the 180sx is 127kw at 1220kg that nearly makes it...
i think almost all of the later 80s nissans etc would be drivable
as for the 125kw/tonne family vehicles... perhaps one of those subaru wagon things? no idea what they are called so i cant check the figures
also maybe cars like the vt supercharged commos, i can understand calling the monaro a sports car as its a 2 door but the calais and statesmans i suppose might get away with being called a family car. plus the statesmans are nearly 2 tonne and i think they make less power than a vct lol
here are the figures for a VS statesman

Power: 165kW @ 5200rpm. Torque: 370Nm @ 3200rpm.

2 tonnes @ 125 each is 250kw...
im not 100% sure how much it weighs so i assume very conservatively that it weighs 1800kg thats 225kw

a ba xr6t is 240kw weight is about 1800kg meaning its about 25kw over what they are allowing, assuming they let it go as a family car... too bad! what if your car isnt in good shape and you get it dynoed showing its got less than factory power? would this be able to be exempt?
interesting new rules though, gonna love to see what people do to exploit it
if only they extended the power rating to 6 cyl NA and v8 NA vehicles, my car would be legal and many people could legally drive lower powered v8s
heck a G220 would be nice :P

[Elks]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Whats a turbo'd car with a P:W ratio of less than 100Kw/Tonne?

Smart, Daihatsu Copen. etc. This is not for enthusiasts.

[Boza]

i dinno but i've seen the same amout of 4cyl puss boxes being scrapped of the side of the road than when i was on my p's and we were allowed v8.

I think it all comes down to driver traning i had a mate who had jack experience on his l's and he's a horrible driver he lost control of a stock ea on a slight bend on the way home ans according to the marks the cops said he was doing about 50km's and he pu that car through a house.

i'd like to think my parents gave me all the time in the world to drive and only now some 10 years later i realosed why my old man went of when i made silly car control manouvers.

all i'm saying is that i personally think it comes down to driver traning and time on the road i'm glad p platers have to log a certain amount of time now all i can say is if they had it back in the day my mate would have been a better driver.

[Rodp]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

Whats a turbo'd car with a P:W ratio of less than 100Kw/Tonne?

All the Turbo Diesels in the VW range would likely be under 100kw/tonne. I believe a Golf TDI has a supercharger AND a turbo charger. :eclipsee_

[XC-351]

so if you buy a turbo car which is under 100kw per tonne do you still have to apply for an exemption? or can you just automaticaly drive it after july 09

[Mr Hardware]

Whats a turbo'd car with a P:W ratio of less than 100Kw/Tonne?

There's lots. Some old saabs, a few diahatsu's etc
That's a pretty cool rule. Buy an old saab with say 95kw/tonne then turn up the boost, no-one'll ever know.

Supercharged 6 cylinder Holden Monaro? Thats a first.

No it's not.
Here's the proof

[4Vman]

People are getting the wrong idea about the use and meaning of the exemptions, the exemptions are primarily intended for people who have to drive a vehicle supplied or lent for work purposes, not just every day use.

[FPV8U]

Good Old Victorian Government still can't come up with a system that works.. oh thats right because they arn't targeting the problem.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Good Old Victorian Government still can't come up with a system that works.. oh thats right because they arn't targeting the problem.

They are targeting the problem, this is just 1 small part of the solution, by stopping young inexperienced people driving cars that require skills beyond their ability, by stopping them from driving cars that can accelerate in a manner that can get them into trouble.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

They are targeting the problem, this is just 1 small part of the solution, by stopping young inexperienced people driving cars that require skills beyond their ability, by stopping them from driving cars that can accelerate in a manner that can get them into trouble.

We have danced this dance plenty of times, can't be bothered with the argument anymore, we will just have to agree to disagree :

But that comment did make for some good fishing. :monkes:

[flappist]

Why is it so difficult to understand that these laws are specifically designed to prevent people with little experience and actual driving skill (as opposed to believed driving skill) from being in control of more difficult to drive motor vehicles.

It is not that a XR6T going 200km/h is any different to a XR6 N/A doing 200km/h.
If you are an idiot and do this on purpose then you will reap what you sow.

It is that high powered vehicles accelerate far more quickly and an inexperienced driver can get into a dangerous situation unintentionally far more easily.

The passenger rule is also designed to stop idiots filling up their cars and blasting about spending more time texting each other (coz gen Y does not talk) in the car than concentrating on driving the car.

Get over it. High powered vehicles will never be made available to P platers and even if you make it your goal in life to get this changed, by the time you have enough credibility for someone to listen to you you will be old enough to realise that back when you were a P plater you were no where near as good at driving as you are now and all the new P platers scare the hell out of you due to the silly things they do.

[Powdered Toast Man]

Beat me to it Mr Hardware re the supercharged V6 Monaro. Nobody bought them so thats why you dont see many.

Rodp, you'll find it's actually the Golf GT that has a supercharged and turbo charged petrol engine, but it's only a 1.4L I think.

I'm happy I'm not a P plater anymore (haven't been for a long long time). Not that I'm against the power restrictions, just it makes choosing a car too much work lol.

[JamesR]

Originally Posted by Powdered Toast Man

Rodp, you'll find it's actually the Golf GT that has a supercharged and turbo charged petrol engine, but it's only a 1.4L I think.

its ONLY a 1.4L that pumps out about 125kw... not bad for a small light car.

[RG]

Daymoe you have a LOT of growing up to do.

[20focus05]

Think SA needs to look at this too.

But as SMOODRIVER said its driver training.

But its driver mentallity too, Now that is a hard one to change.

A young person could drive a 35hp car and could easily kill themselves or someone else.

[20focus05]

CARS ARE WEAPONS, they can easily kill people.
Simple fact.
So therefore they need regulating.

[Bucknaked]

I can't see the issue. You gotta learn to crawl before you can work. Getting a licence doesn't give you the freedoms your chasing.

I'm on my p's with my bike. Still 6 months to go before opens. I understand and appreciate that as an inexperienced rider, I need to develop my skill on the road. Being restricted is a drag, but being dead isn't much fun either. And neither is killing someone else through inexperience behind the wheel of a high powered car.

So do your time and stop your bitching and complaining that governments are too hard on you lot. It's not you they are trying to protect, but everyone else on the roads, so they don't end up being killed by a P-Plater who thinks he/she is Peter Brock re-incarnated.

[4Vman]

Driver training will make little to no difference, all the training in the world wont make up for a poor attitude and behavior behind the wheel, and it wont replace years of "on the job" learning.
There are countless defensive driver programs readily available right now, there's nothing stopping every driver doing them, but at the end of the day the bit between the ears will have the greatest impact on how people behave behind the wheel.
Laws like these have eventuated because of a lack of self control by many who have saddly lost their lives from acts of stupidity.

Dont blame the govt, blame your peers....

[20focus05]

Here Here 4VMAN

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Driver training will make little to no difference, all the training in the world wont make up for a poor attitude and behavior behind the wheel, and it wont replace years of "on the job" learning.
There are countless defensive driver programs readily available right now, there's nothing stopping every driver doing them, but at the end of the day the bit between the ears will have the greatest impact on how people behave behind the wheel.
Laws like these have eventuated because of a lack of self control by many who have saddly lost their lives from acts of stupidity.

Dont blame the govt, blame your peers....

I would blame my peers, but the ones at fault are all dead so the conversation would be a bit one sided.

The laws are there to protect us blah blah blah, but why can't I drive the EF XR8, but can drive the FG XR6? Which is obviously quicker. I don't set me setting any records in a F100 either. What was wrong with the original power to weight ratio? Blanket banning an engine doesn't really do much. It just makes you think outside the box.

A Reno Clio Sport would probably beat the crap out of most common V8s "around the track" and its a 4 cylinder.

So, we can't have more than one passenger our age in the car with us, now you'll find people in the boot of cars or 10 people in 5 cars instead of 2, increasing the amount of traffic around. Imagine driving home and you come up to a traffic light which has 7 or 8 P platers lined up coming home after a party, instant traffic light grand prix.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

A Reno Clio Sport would probably beat the crap out of most common V8s "around the track" and its a 4 cylinder.

You just don't get it do you.

Yes it will possibly thrash the V8 on a track but what it will NOT do is accelerate to over 130km/h with 3 passengers from a red light outside maccas in less than 10 seconds while street racing and then run the next red light because it cannot stop due to the speed and weight killing all the occupants in a collision with a cement truck.

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by flappist

You just don't get it do you.

Yes it will possibly thrash the V8 on a track but what it will NOT do is accelerate to over 130km/h with 3 passengers from a red light outside maccas in less than 10 seconds while street racing and then run the next red light because it cannot stop due to the speed and weight killing all the occupants in a collision with a cement truck.

If someone is that stupid enough to try something like that, they'd do it in any car. Just because a car can accelerate faster than another, doesn't stop the dumb-*** behind the wheel. Its all easy to get up on your high horse, but if you go back 30 years ago when you had yours, I bet you did some pretty stupid things too.

I get the point, its just hard arguing with someone who isn't open to any other point of view besides their own.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by Daymoe

If someone is that stupid enough to try something like that, they'd do it in any car. Just because a car can accelerate faster than another, doesn't stop the dumb-*** behind the wheel. Its all easy to get up on your high horse, but if you go back 30 years ago when you had yours, I bet you did some pretty stupid things too.

But reducing the ability of the car to accelerate rapidly also reduces the likelyhood of a loss of control incident....
Distance for distance from a standing start the lower powered vehicle will not be traveling anywhere near as fast as the higher powered 1 because it simply cannot accelerate that quickly...... nor will an over exuberant right foot get you into as much trouble on a wet corner with reduced power.

[daniel_rossy]

I thought the no v8's rule came in 2007, not 2008 as it says in the article. Because i got my P's in 2008 in may and new i couldnt drive any v8's, now it says they introduced the rule in july 2008, thus letting people who got their P's before that date drive v8s.

As it says in vicroads..

As part of Victoria’s new graduated licensing system, new restrictions on driving high powered vehicles will apply to all drivers who obtain their probationary licence after 1 July 2007.

The previous power to weight restriction will continue to apply to any probationary driver who obtained their licence before 1 July 2007.

However, if a probationary driver with a pre-July 2007 licence has a car that does not meet the power to weight restrictions, but it does comply with the new high powered vehicle restrictions effective from July 2007, then the probationary driver may drive the car.

[4Vman]

Hay Daymoe, do you realise this is the 5th thread you've started on this topic?

[Daymoe]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Hay Daymoe, do you realise this is the 5th thread you've started on this topic?

Yeah, wouldn't surprise me, but hey it gets a good discussion going doesn't it? I could mine the other ones but they're probably closed or old enough to get people bitching about thread mining, then resulting in them being closed.

P plate laws, I6 vs V8, LPG vs Petrol etc always get a good discussion going.