(//) to be brought back in the NT??

[Outbackjack]

With the almost certain election coming very soon, due to the impending vote of no confidence in the current NT guvment, the (//) sign could well be back on the roadside. The CLP are still campaigning with the return to drivers taking responsibility for their own actions on the open roads out here. Polls suggest that the CLP will win, so, interesting times ahead. :

[flappist]

Yeeeehhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa..........

I have missed that soooooooo much.

Unfortunately with all the publicity I suspect there will be a convoy of VL turbos etc up from the south east corner blasting about at 20 times faster than their capability.

I hope not as one big oops will end it for ever...

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by flappist

Yeeeehhhhaaaaaaaaaaaa..........

I have missed that soooooooo much.

Unfortunately with all the publicity I suspect there will be a convoy of VL turbos etc up from the south east corner blasting about at 20 times faster than their capability.

I hope not as one big oops will end it for ever...

Things are really slow out here at the moment. With mines slowing down and the economy in general, even grey nomads towing over sized caravans are pretty thin on the ground. It will be good to get on the highway and not have to dodge troopies doing the "speed limit" any more......

[Bucknaked]

This will make my dad happy. He likes to go flat out, limit or not. This just works out cheaper for him, and he gets to keep his points.

[flappist]

And from memory there was some beer mentioned a while ago....

[FPV+fteT3]

Nice to think commonsense is not lost entirely. Too late for the east coast the nannys run them.

[bcr2734]

Waiting for keepleft's comment now.....................

[MO]

Originally Posted by bcr2734

Waiting for keepleft's comment now.....................

He will no doubt agree to the lifting of the limit on the open road.
I only hope that the CLP will be true to their word.

[kyro_02]

awesome cant wait

[OLDFORDNUT]

an incoming Government changing back to old ways that dont increase revenue,ID LIKE TO SEE THAT

[malazn mafia]

please let this be so, saves us all a trip to Germany to experience autobahn..

[opto]

i will come up and visit the rellys in Alice with the beast and go for some casual drives up to ti tree at 170kmh plus.

[PHATAL]

The NT will see my tourist dollars if this happens that's for sure.

[snappy]

This is great news (well Maybe) .
In Nsw the have abolised the new suspension laws : , now to hear the Nt speed laws maybe on the way out tells me maybe there is still hope for Vic.

[Keepleft]

Good to see you again Jack.

Since you were last here?- and as mentioned over at KeepNTLimitFree, a recent update to Australia's national road traffic sign Standard: "AS1742.4" has seen, as at the *NEW* 2009 edition, the removal of the R4-2 speed derestriction sign (//) completely.

Done by Standards Australia 'MS12' Committee membership; comprising various state transport agency employee's, with the collusion of various domestic academics and groups, to effectively and quite *deliberately* prevent any MP, or parliamentary political party,- as say 'party policy platform', or even a road agency 'as policy'; from ever again re-implementing the sign in Australia.

It is a disgrace this has happened in my view, the R4-2 sign should have remained on our books.

Its removal from national standards is purely one of political correctness, borne through ignorance. The control of L, P1 & P2 'speed' on a speed derestricted (//) length-of-road is simply enforced by "Licence Conditions", a la NSW example etc.

Heavy vehicles are then top speed-limited by ARR 25, on a category-of-vehicle basis!

On Facebook, I note Terry Mills, might befriend and have a discreet word?

I know of two methods of getting around this nonsense, and there is *nothing* the staffers, nor politically correct groups responsible for AS1742.4 of 2009 can do about it.

They do NOT own, in any manner - the signs 'design parameters', nor its 'intent', the one that implies on the road user the full and absolute responsibility for driving in a safe manner and speed at all times.

Instead, the speed derestriction sign is owned effectively by the world community and is administered to contracting states parties (countries), via The UN Road Traffic Convention. Australia contracted (gazetted) that Convention back in 53'. Now, even though we did not sign the "Road Signs" portion of the Convention, we can install on that basis nonetheless, since Australia desires, by contract, uniformity of road traffic rules.

OR,

We go the whole hog once again and remove the current 110km/h rural default speed-limit Regulation altogether (a reworked NT Trans Reg 77), BUT accepting though; license category (L, P1 & P2) and heavy-vehicle category speed-limits. AND we remove the 130km/h speed-limit signs that currently apply to NT's key highways, keeping these R4-1 'speed restriction' signs, of whatever numerical figure, to those rural lengths of road actually needing a speed-limit, for whatever identified reason!

I'd *much prefer* signposted speed derestriction on a per length of road basis though (In place of the 130km/h signed highways), rather than applying the same open allowance once again to what are some pretty poor goat tracks, we could then maintain a rural default speed-limit more suited to such low-grade roads, 80km/h in my view, and I base this on the old (pre 1979) NSW speed derestriction implementation that had a 'recommended maximum' 80km/h.

IF we use the (//) sign again, it is appropriate to include the additional template below the symbol "DRIVE TO CONDITIONS" on those units at NT border entry locations. I'll try and attach.

NSW -
I'd also signal domestic RTA staff and Eastern based police, that if a key NSW parliamentary party, (or an MP) wish to re-instate (//) on select NSW high-standard rural roads, and where that implementation would not affect overall network safety, then such would legislate it so, if necessary, despite attempts to silence the topic otherwise.

Seems increasingly likely RTA face a major overhaul in the next 2-3 years, and I'd guess performance based employment contracts are not guaranteed.

Much anger out there in public, rightly so.

[Chilla]

Originally Posted by snappy84

This is great news (well Maybe) .
In Nsw the have abolised the new suspension laws : , now to hear the Nt speed laws maybe on the way out tells me maybe there is still hope for Vic.

Yeah! pigs might fly.com

[MO]

Thanks Full Noise, now to try and locate it.

[flappist]

One of the really good things about NT is their history of telling the southern states and commonwealth to "get stuffed".

I suspect that if they wamt to put up (//) they just will despite whatever is said by the wowsers and if stopped by a court order will do something like (250) or (300) just for the publicity.....

P.S. they are not all gone, I found another one recently.....

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by flappist

P.S. they are not all gone, I found another one recently.....

In QLD flappist? I know a QLD speed manager who will break down and cry if this is so:-)

QLD Trans will not support in court a local council that uses the (//) sign.

Those of you on Facebook, the group "Bring Back Open Speed Limits" might be of interest. I note NT MP membership.

NT Safety people at least like the idea of vest, triangle. Things may change on all fronts yet. NT people must get behind the opposition on this by actively supporting them at NT election time, offer your free time to hand out flyers, etc.

Apathy is dangerous.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

In QLD flappist? I know a QLD speed manager who will break down and cry if this is so:-)

QLD Trans will not support in court a local council that uses the (//) sign.

Those of you on Facebook, the group "Bring Back Open Speed Limits" might be of interest. I note NT MP membership.

NT Safety people at least like the idea of vest, triangle. Things may change on all fronts yet. NT people must get behind the opposition on this by actively supporting them at NT election time, offer your free time to hand out flyers, etc.

Apathy is dangerous.

And here is the pic of the datto lurking next to it.

Please note that at no time while on this road did I exceed 100km/h (in second gear)......

[Gabbs]

Did the toll for the deaths in nt go up or down when they took the unrestricted speeds off the highway? Would be interesting to see the toll and if it actually went up.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Gabbs

Did the toll for the deaths in nt go up or down when they took the unrestricted speeds off the highway? Would be interesting to see the toll and if it actually went up.

Yes they went up significantly.

www.keepntlimitfree.org

[Outbackjack]

Originally Posted by Gabbs

Did the toll for the deaths in nt go up or down when they took the unrestricted speeds off the highway? Would be interesting to see the toll and if it actually went up.

Go here and have a peek. Note that speed limits were introduced on the 1st of Jan 2007.

http://www.nt.gov.au/pfes/index.cfm?...ion=page&p=148

[GTP 290]

I know of a (//) sign that is just south of the QLD border in the tweed valley although you wouldn't want to be going much more than around 170-180 on the road.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by GTP 290

I know of a (//) sign that is just south of the QLD border in the tweed valley although you wouldn't want to be going much more than around 170-180 on the road.

There is NO compulsion whatsoever to drive at high, triple digit speeds when under (//), because the sign signals the absolute responsibility you have to always drive at a safe-speed for the prevailing circumstances, AND you must be able to come to a full, safe-stop if the need arises, without locking up or loss of control. The (//) allows for safer, legal overtaking speeds. FLASH-to PASS permissible under ARR, is also very suited when under (//).


It might have been the same sign design as that attached in my above post, take a look.

Speed derestriction signs were installed by Tweed Shire Council in a program at about the 2002 period.

In 2004, NSW RTA in its "Speed Zoning Guidelines" REMOVED the authority for local councils to post the signs on NSW roads. Though some Councils such as Gundagai, on the old Hume highway - installed some as recently as 2008, in contravention of the Guidelines, and on seemingly poor advice from regional RTA staffers.

A few (//) do remain around NSW - the idea was to remove them all, then perhaps one day apply them only to high-standard rural highways, where a speed-limit is rather pointless.

You state tax and efficiency at work:-)

[ute351]

Originally Posted by GTP 290

I know of a (//) sign that is just south of the QLD border in the tweed valley although you wouldn't want to be going much more than around 170-180 on the road.

I know you can't always take wikipedia's word for it, but I came across the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_Australia

"The speed derestriction sign had different meanings in different states and territories. In the Northern Territory, they designated the end of speed restrictions. In Victoria they meant that the rural default speed limit applied, whilst in New South Wales, they indicated that the prima facie 50 mph (80 km/h) limit applied. New South Wales's prima facie 50 mph (80 km/h) limit, often signed by derestriction signs, was only enforced in cases where a driver's speed could be demonstrated to be excessive or dangerous in the context of prevailing road conditions. This was somewhat similar in principle to "reasonable and prudent" limits in other jurisdictions. This led to the widespread but misleading belief that no limit applied, and that derestriction signs indicated an "unlimited" limit."

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by ute351

I know you can't always take wikipedia's word for it, but I came across the following:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_limits_in_Australia

"The speed derestriction sign had different meanings in different states and territories. In the Northern Territory, they designated the end of speed restrictions. In Victoria they meant that the rural default speed limit applied, whilst in New South Wales, they indicated that the prima facie 50 mph (80 km/h) limit applied. New South Wales's prima facie 50 mph (80 km/h) limit, often signed by derestriction signs, was only enforced in cases where a driver's speed could be demonstrated to be excessive or dangerous in the context of prevailing road conditions. This was somewhat similar in principle to "reasonable and prudent" limits in other jurisdictions. This led to the widespread but misleading belief that no limit applied, and that derestriction signs indicated an "unlimited" limit."

Your right, you "can't" take Wiki's word for it. Gave up on that page years ago.

The (//) sign IS an INTERNATIONAL road traffic sign. It is NOT, and NEVER WAS "the property" of any State or Territory parliament or road agency.

Meaning each COULD NOT, at UN Contract, give different meaning to the road user. The arrogance or ignorance of some parliaments, on 'bad advice perhaps', typically ALP over the decades - gave a different meaning to that taught in all OS countries that still used the sign correctly; Thailand, Malaysia, Germany, Southern Phillipines, Iran, Spain, Afrikan states etc.

The sign is held in the UN Road Traffic Convention, Road Signs & Signals portion, cataloged C,17a - "END OF ALL LOCAL PROHIBITIONS IMPOSED ON MOVING VEHICLES".

L, P1 & P2 drives can remain speed-restricted by 'license conditions'. Heavy vehicles can also remain speed-limited under (//) by virtue of ARR 25.

This was somewhat similar in principle to "reasonable and prudent" limits in other jurisdictions.

NO Australian state operated R&P despite this Wiki statement, - the reference applied to some States of the US, NOT AUS.

The sign is removed from AUS Standards as at 2009.

[Keepleft]

Update, 13 August 2009
NSW group threatens NT over speed limits (Harold Scruby)

"I am linking this to a cult of hillbilly politics coupled with unbridled apathy," he said.

Mr Scruby, who lives in NSW, said the speed limit was introduced after he threatened Ms Martin to launch a campaign warning tourists to stay away from the Territory.

Harold, Harold, Harold; you try very-hard, but no matter how hard and often you 'try', you just can't get it right can you??


Update, 24 August 2009 - NT speed limits 'working'
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...01_ntnews.html

Territory doctors from the Royal Australian College of Physicians wrote to the Northern Territory News to say they were "extremely concerned" at the CLP move to overturn the 130km/h rule.

The "doctors" can calm down a little, re-introduction of (//) is to apply to lengths of high-standard rural highway where it is quite pointless to have a speed-limit.

Doctors, need to understand, and this is NOT very difficult to comprehend dear's, is that since NT last had (//), *new* L-P2 category license holders since then introduced, WHEN on proposed (//) lengths of highway CANNOT EXCEED THE "LICENSE CONDITION" IMPOSED SPEED-LIMIT that can, and does apply typically to such holders, usually in the 80-100km/h range.

That means ladies, the inexperienced and immature CANNOT then go too fast.

Much 'dumb' hysteria applies by such groups.

If the "Royal Australian College of Physicians" NT membership, or others, were even remotely serious "about all things that can be done to reduce the road toll", you lot WOULD have advocated long ago, to mandate a triangle and safety vest per car, you would have advocated for a mandatory rear fog ADR rather than accept our useless 'optional' allowance.

Until the militant college membership mature somewhat, this advocate can take little notice. (Get my way in NSW and I'll have doctors *removed* from particular rescue choppers, unless requested per journey, this is the stuff for fit paramedics, not doctors taking the health system for a rort dollar ride).

Everything reader is political. What we have here is a sudden, ongoing organised campaign by more extreme-left personality types, who use 'the resources of the state against any party that might oppose their 'agenda'.


Update August 25, 2009:-
CLP in 130km speed limits U-turn
http://www.ntnews.com.au/article/200...71_ntnews.html

Despite NT News getting the headline plain "WRONG", what we have here, as stated in description by CLP's Peter Chandler is "SPEED ZONING", and its all perfectly normal on most asphalt Aussie roads; where the same and lower speed-limits will apply to some lengths of currently 130km/h zoned highways, and speed derestriction simply applied to 'safer' sections of NT highway.

But not (//) as a rural default either, and that is livable, since 'default rural roads are usually 'tracks'.

Its really not that hard to understand.

Those who seek ongoing societal 'restrictions' need to learn this;- LIVE with speed and engineer and work for its ultimate safety, rather than against it. Your ongoing dumbing-down hysteria campaigns are doomed to failure, your actions bring speed-limits into disrepute leading to general non compliance, despite BIG scare fines and seasonal 'speed' campaigns.

Nobody likes an idiot who is obviously going too fast, and that has bugger all to do with (//) nor with with speed-limits.

[MO]

Maybe its time to turn the tables on scruby and threatening him with campaigns to lessen his $ income etc.

[Mr X]

I've driven a few of times in NT over the last 20 years on de restricted roads.Followed an SA cop in a 100 Series Landcruiser just south of the border at 140 plus.........speed limits are designed for the lowest common denominator ie nana in her Magna.

I know our roads aren't as "safe" as euro roads.........but........
how the Germans drive


http://www.caradvice.com.au/30280/ge...n-car-culture/