New roads laws for NSW (Oct2012 Edition)

wulos · 30-10-2012, 10:53 PM

The NSW RTA have announced several new road laws to be implemented as of the 1st Nov (this thursday)
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/usingroads...rules_2012.pdf

Keepleft · 31-10-2012, 12:15 AM

Further, the update to the NSW RUH - Road Users Handbook reflecting the rules in the Pdf above is complete, incl triangle stuff, and I'd expect the latest edition online soon.

new2ford · 31-10-2012, 07:17 AM

I can't believe that the RTA after all these years doesn't understand the principle of roudabouts. (I believe Victoria and other jurisdictions are just as bad.)

There is no "turning left" or "turning right", there is only entering and leaving. Nobody seems to get the functional principle that a roundabout is a "main road" and the roads off it are "side streets", even if one of them is the M62 Motorway.

You don't really need to signal before entering a roundabout but you ought to signal your intention to leave at the next exit (left signal) or that you are proceeding around the roundabout without exiting (right signal) until you approach your exit (then you left signal).

And these are the official traffic managers for the state?

It's more than semantics. The notion of "going straight ahead, turning right and turning left" fosters the misguided belief that many Australian drivers have that there is a "main road" which is "straight ahead" and a "minor road" - with a consequent tendency to claim priorities by what I call charging the roundabout and denying those on the next entry the right to enter first.

aualright · 08-11-2012, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

I can't believe that the RTA after all these years doesn't understand the principle of roudabouts. (I believe Victoria and other jurisdictions are just as bad.)

There is no "turning left" or "turning right", there is only entering and leaving. Nobody seems to get the functional principle that a roundabout is a "main road" and the roads off it are "side streets", even if one of them is the M62 Motorway.

You don't really need to signal before entering a roundabout but you ought to signal your intention to leave at the next exit (left signal) or that you are proceeding around the roundabout without exiting (right signal) until you approach your exit (then you left signal).

I have to admit I have treated them sort of like a T intersection all these years and indicate before entering to let people know which way I am going. That is, right indicator if I am going to the third exit and then once across the oncoming traffic I indicate left to leave the roundabout. That seemed logical to me and I have had my license since roundabouts were first put in NSW.

****

zilo · 31-10-2012, 09:47 AM

I like the one about giving way to a vehicle already on the roundabout.

Just because they are on your right some people think that they can approach flat out and they think they have right of way...

Landau Stable · 31-10-2012, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

I like the one about giving way to a vehicle already on the roundabout.

Just because they are on your right some people think that they can approach flat out and they think they have right of way...

This is the biggest issue with roundabouts. I was hoping they would put some more emphasis on this, and clearly state that it is not law to give way to the right. As it is, we'll keep getting the same arguments going around in circles again. Really, most of these rules are nothing new.

FPV GTHO · 31-10-2012, 09:52 AM

These round about laws were already in place 8 years ago when I was on my L's, what's the big deal.

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 10:06 AM

Heres one I picked up straight away, which was in another thread that no one would believe me about

"Police and emergency services vehicles
Police and emergency service drivers may continue to use mobile data terminals in the course of their work to receive job allocations, licensing, registration and other important information"

Kevxr8Leexr6 · 31-10-2012, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

These round about laws were already in place 8 years ago when I was on my L's, what's the big deal.

Yep , but now as a state in such a bad financial state , they have identified revenue raisers to help fund it. yippee. moral of the story, dont break the rules

KW XRT · 31-10-2012, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ugg

I like the one about giving way to a vehicle already on the roundabout.

Just because they are on your right some people think that they can approach flat out and they think they have right of way...

This has been tested and won in court.Car approaching on the right at break neck speed,grandma been on roundabout for sometime moves off fast car on right skids for sometime and hits the old lady.She takes it to court as she was on the round about first and wins.While this is rare it should be more common as their should be a reduced speed limit approaching roundabouts as most people speed up.

**Silver Ghia** · 31-10-2012, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KW XRT

This has been tested and won in court.Car approaching on the right at break neck speed,grandma been on roundabout for sometime moves off fast car on right skids for sometime and hits the old lady.She takes it to court as she was on the round about first and wins.While this is rare it should be more common as their should be a reduced speed limit approaching roundabouts as most people speed up.

So she should win. Thats what the give way rule is at a roundabout.

I have been stuck behind driving school learner drivers waiting to enter a roundabout, giving way to cars from the right that are still at a distance from the roundabout. What hope has the learner got, when its obvious the instructor is teaching incorrectly who should give way to who?

Then there are the morons who dont stay in their lane, or worse, blatantly cut across the lanes in double lane roundabouts, even when there are cars almost next to them. The illustrations in the pdf show the vehicles correctly staying in their lane when going through the roundabout, also next to eachother, but in practice hardly anyone does this correctly, as they dont know. Why? Because drivers are never shown what the correct way is, and are never taught properly when learning to drive.

karj · 31-10-2012, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

So she should win. Thats what the give way rule is at a roundabout.

I have been stuck behind driving school learner drivers waiting to enter a roundabout, giving way to cars from the right that are still at a distance from the roundabout. What hope has the learner got, when its obvious the instructor is teaching incorrectly who should give way to who?

Then there are the morons who dont stay in their lane, or worse, blatantly cut across the lanes in double lane roundabouts, even when there are cars almost next to them. The illustrations in the pdf show the vehicles correctly staying in their lane when going through the roundabout, also next to eachother, but in practice hardly anyone does this correctly, as they dont know. Why? Because drivers are never shown what the correct way is, and are never taught properly when learning to drive.

That is completely different kettle of fish though; they are learners. You'll find that learners who take a long time at roundabouts are very green behind the wheel and it takes a while (some longer than others) to build the knowledge and confidence be able to gauge correct gaps in traffic. Misjudging gaps in traffic is one of the main contributors to P plate accidents. So it's not that they are being taught incorrectly, just that they are inexperienced and not yet confident behind the wheel. The last thing you would want is an instructor putting pressure on a learner to go when they are not comfortable to go, or cutting it too fine on a roundabout. You don't just go to bed on the day of your 16th birthday and wake up a driver; skills need to be built up.

**Silver Ghia** · 31-10-2012, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by karj

That is completely different kettle of fish though; they are learners. You'll find that learners who take a long time at roundabouts are very green behind the wheel and it takes a while (some longer than others) to build the knowledge and confidence be able to gauge correct gaps in traffic. Misjudging gaps in traffic is one of the main contributors to P plate accidents. So it's not that they are being taught incorrectly, just that they are inexperienced and not yet confident behind the wheel. The last thing you would want is an instructor putting pressure on a learner to go when they are not comfortable to go, or cutting it too fine on a roundabout. You don't just go to bed on the day of your 16th birthday and wake up a driver; skills need to be built up.

I accept they may not have the confidence to enter the roundabout as an experienced driver, however they must learn the correct rules, and learn to follow these rules when driving when they go for their licence. This habit continues when they get their licence, just about every P plate driver I come across at roundabouts doesn't stay in their lane when negotiating roundabouts. They also expect other drivers on roundabouts to give way to them when they enter a roundabout. It is obvious many P platers dont know the rules at roundabouts.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 01-11-2012, 09:23 AM

Just had a read, these are not new, they have only clarified existing laws, most of this stuff has been in place for years, the road train one is a new though.

The mobile phone one has been place for years, they have just closed some loop holes with the wording.

The round about thing, not sure what the issue is I was taught that stuff when I got my license in the 80's, so not sure what has changed there.

Fiesta_Man69 · 31-10-2012, 11:09 AM

Indicating left when leaving a roundabout is utterly ridiculous.

Think about it: on a big, two lane roundabout, someone who is driving straight thru and plans to exit and indicates a fraction too early will cause an accident as someone else will think they are turning left.... result, a nice T-bone and traffic chaos.

Oh well, its easy coin for a bankrupt state govt.... set up a few cops at the exit of the big, busy (ie. a lot of customers to catch and fine) and they will make a killing.

I'd prefer to risk a stupid fine and points then be in an accident.

FPV GTHO · 31-10-2012, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Indicating left when leaving a roundabout is utterly ridiculous.

Think about it: on a big, two lane roundabout, someone who is driving straight thru and plans to exit and indicates a fraction too early will cause an accident as someone else will think they are turning left.... result, a nice T-bone and traffic chaos..

Well you're not supposed to turn left in that situation anyway.

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Indicating left when leaving a roundabout is utterly ridiculous.

Think about it: on a big, two lane roundabout, someone who is driving straight thru and plans to exit and indicates a fraction too early will cause an accident as someone else will think they are turning left.... result, a nice T-bone and traffic chaos.

Oh well, its easy coin for a bankrupt state govt.... set up a few cops at the exit of the big, busy (ie. a lot of customers to catch and fine) and they will make a killing.

I'd prefer to risk a stupid fine and points then be in an accident.

All you seem to do is cause problems. If you want to take off infront of someone in a roundabout, go ahead. If I see someone on a roundabout to my right, I give way. It's not hard.
If you are in the wrong lane, well that's your silly fault.

If there isn't enough time, should they be going around, don't go!
I ALWAYS indicate off a roundabout. And I see people indicate off to. However, I still will NOT go until it is clear they are moving off, incase they have stuck the indicator on by accident.

Fiesta_Man69 · 31-10-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

All you seem to do is cause problems. If you want to take off infront of someone in a roundabout, go ahead. If I see someone on a roundabout to my right, I give way. It's not hard.
If you are in the wrong lane, well that's your silly fault.

If there isn't enough time, should they be going around, don't go!
I ALWAYS indicate off a roundabout. And I see people indicate off to. However, I still will NOT go until it is clear they are moving off, incase they have stuck the indicator on by accident.

Maybe waiting forever until there is no traffic on your right before entering a roundabout works in Maitland. It doesn't in Sydney. There are roundabouts where you would be there literally for hours....

If I see someone on my right with a left indicator on just as they enter the roundabout, I presume they are turning left. My point is that people may now put their indicator on early due to them being fearful/confused of a fine. I am not talking about people indicating left as they leave (which still causes confusion on 4 lane roundabouts btw).

And in such multilane roundabouts, you can go straight from either lane, unless it is specifically marked otherwise. I can site several as evidence if you so require.

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Maybe waiting forever until there is no traffic on your right before entering a roundabout works in Maitland. It doesn't in Sydney. There are roundabouts where you would be there literally for hours....

If I see someone on my right with a left indicator on just as they enter the roundabout, I presume they are turning left. My point is that people may now put their indicator on early due to them being fearful/confused of a fine. I am not talking about people indicating left as they leave (which still causes confusion on 4 lane roundabouts btw).

And in such multilane roundabouts, you can go straight from either lane, unless it is specifically marked otherwise. I can site several as evidence if you so require.

You think they arent bad here? Ive been held up, in close to 4k long traffic, generally 2-3x/week. But when I finally get through the first one, and on to the second, I will NOT push my way in. Why?
Maybe it has something to do with the bloke that wrote my EL off, NOT GIVING WAY. I have a pure hate for people that go when they shouldnt. I have way to much to lose for my future job, which requires NO record AT ALL. My 2c

AWD Chaser · 31-10-2012, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR6T0Y

You think they arent bad here? Ive been held up, in close to 4k long traffic, generally 2-3x/week. But when I finally get through the first one, and on to the second, I will NOT push my way in. Why?
Maybe it has something to do with the bloke that wrote my EL off, NOT GIVING WAY. I have a pure hate for people that go when they shouldnt. I have way to much to lose for my future job, which requires NO record AT ALL. My 2c

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/roadprojec.../maitland.html

GREGL · 02-11-2012, 09:30 PM

Sorry just read the rest and decided to delete

Bucknaked · 31-10-2012, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fiesta_Man69

Indicating left when leaving a roundabout is utterly ridiculous.

We have had this rule in the ACT for many years. It's really not that difficult to follow. Just don't do it at the wrong exit.

You get used to it. Its no different than the stupid rules in Victoria. Turn right from the left lane. WTF

Fiesta_Man69 · 31-10-2012, 11:17 AM

No, someone who is at another entry point thinks that car is turning left, not going straight and exiting, and enters the roundabout themselves to go straight ahead and bang. If people are so worried about being fined for not indicating left when exiting you watch, so many people will indicate early with crashy results...

AWD Chaser · 31-10-2012, 11:33 AM

http://fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11379731

mytgxl · 31-10-2012, 12:17 PM

Sometimes trying to indicate off a roundabout when turning can break your indicater if you are not careful!

XRGhia · 31-10-2012, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytgxl

Sometimes trying to indicate off a roundabout when turning can break your indicater if you are not careful!

A mate of mine managed to snap his indicator stalk off exiting from a roundabout in his VT during the P-plate test (L's - P's)... Thankfully it was the last roundabout he had to go through also...

**GasoLane** · 31-10-2012, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mytgxl

Sometimes trying to indicate off a roundabout when turning can break your indicater if you are not careful!

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrghiawagon

A mate of mine managed to snap his indicator stalk off exiting from a roundabout in his VT during the P-plate test (L's - P's)

I'm sorry but I cant see how indicating off a roundabout is any different to turning left, and you don't hear of too many people breaking indicators doing that.

Ben73 · 31-10-2012, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GasOLane

I'm sorry but I cant see how indicating off a roundabout is any different to turning left, and you don't hear of too many people breaking indicators doing that.

In most cars if you left indicator is on and you turn the wheel to the right it makes a click noise once it passes the usual spot where it is triggered to turn off, I know if you put the left indicator on just as its at this point it honestly feels like the stalk could break off.

mik · 31-10-2012, 12:31 PM

We have many roundabouts in our area, for the most part they seem to work ok, my main critisism of them is in some area's it's plain to see there is too much traffic for them to operate safely and motorist will try and push in when there's really not enough gap, no doubt some of them should be traffic lights instead.

XR6T0Y · 31-10-2012, 12:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mik

We have many roundabouts in our area, for the most part they seem to work ok, my main critisism of them is in some area's it's plain to see there is too much traffic for them to operate safely and motorist will try and push in when there's really not enough gap, no doubt some of them should be traffic lights instead.

This is like one main one in our area. Out the front of a hospital, Hungry Jacks, Bunnings, and a car dealer. On a main highway, with 4 side streets. Many people have complained, and been a fair few accidents (my ex included from someone not looking). Been many calls to put lights in