The future for Ford workers: literacy will be key

[csv8]

Yesterday’s announcement that Ford will close its manufacturing operations in Geelong and Broadmeadows by 2016 at the cost of 1,200 jobs raises questions of what the workers' future employment options are.

But as these workers consider their futures, we need to understand that nearly half of Australian adults are considered functionally illiterate. And manufacturing workers in Victoria, which includes those in the firing line at Ford, were found to have even lower literacy skills, with 54% scoring at the lowest levels.

The data are alarming and there are now serious concerns about these levels of literacy and the impact they have on the employment, health and education opportunities for workers.

Given the strong links between increasing literacy and better employment opportunities, economic independence and social conditions including health and education, this is a serious issue not only for manufacturing workers, but for the rest of the Australian community.
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What is functional illiteracy?

Functional literacy is broadly defined as having the literacy skills for everyday living. This includes reading and writing lists, interpreting medicine labels, understanding road signs, using maps, navigating the internet, using instruction manuals and other procedural texts that people encounter in their daily lives.

While complete illiteracy refers to a total inability to read or write, functional illiteracy is much more difficult to see, as functionally illiterate adults can generally read and write to a limited degree.

UNESCO defines functional illiteracy as being unable to productively engage with society due to poor reading and writing skills.

Data from a recent Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS) study, as part of the Programme for the International Assessment of Adult Competencies (PIAAC), assessing adult literacy and numeracy skills shows that about 44% of Australians aged 15 – 74 had literacy skills at levels that are considered to be functionally illiterate. Older Australians have lower literacy rates than younger Australians, with 65% scoring at the lowest literacy levels.
http://brisbanetimes.drive.com.au/mo...524-2k4u1.html

My Comment, if this is true, then Australia's education system has a lot to answer for...What has all the money on education , been spent on ??????

[GQ_Smooth]

If an adult has extremely poor literacy after the age of 25, who do you blame?
On a second point, who should be liable for the costs to educate them?

[Bowser22]

I believe this is why we need manufacturing in this country. Not everyone will be able to obtain a university education and work in so called "smart economy" being designers and engineers. People who cannot achieve these levels of education need jobs like manufacturing because we all can't be cleaners and check out chicks.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Bowser22

I believe this is why we need manufacturing in this country. Not everyone will be able to obtain a university education and work in so called "smart economy" being designers and engineers. People who cannot achieve these levels of education need jobs like manufacturing because we all can't be cleaners and check out chicks.

Agreed but they can't be paid more than a school teacher at the same time, otherwise the product they are manufacturing will be too expensive to produce and cheaper imports will end up costing them their jobs.

[Cheese3]

Ok first of all , is this thread about low level skilled/production workers only or trades aswell ?

Originally Posted by Spammy

Agreed but they can't be paid more than a school teacher at the same time, otherwise the product they are manufacturing will be too expensive to produce and cheaper imports will end up costing them their jobs.

I work at Ford Geelong as a Fitter and Turner , an reading that makes my blood boil . . . Why not paid the same if not more , what because teachers use the catch phrase "educating the future of tomorrow"

Is it because we are more mechanically gifted with our hands than the brains we deserve less ? Any tradesman who deals with engineers will tell you the majority are theorist and it should be mandatory for engineers to spend one year on the tools to understand and appreciate what we do . But instead I see new grads come into the work place thinking they know it all and will not take advice/listen to the guys who have been in the game for years . We just sit back watch them struggle, stuff up and waste time and show them days later in 5mins how to make their job easier . . . Knowledge is the key not a fancy suits and shiney shoes . . .

An one more thing , by the time I leave/loose my job lm going to university to become a primary school teacher , Im only 25 years old now and they have it set . . . 3 months off a year , pay increase of 20% over 4 years recently , later starts . . . To many perks already compared to a Trade , so no a teacher doesn't deserve more . . .

[mr smith]

The unskilled and semi skilled middle class is dead.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by mr smith

The unskilled and semi skilled middle class is dead.

Imagine what happens to society when these people no longer can find secure employment with regular income? Ugly. There are more people at the lower end of society. I am not being derogatory to these people. They need to be given opportunities and manufacturing industries have been their saviour.

[ryeman]

Good teachers (the vast majority) work 60 plus hrs/wk, dot regurgitate the cynical Murdoch/Bolt/Hadley/Jones/Devine tripe.
It's intellectually lazy to spread their rubbish.
'Raising' other people's brats is one of societies thankless tasks.
If its such a doodle, just go ahead and find out for yourself then tell us all about it.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Good teachers (the vast majority) work 60 plus hrs/wk, dot regurgitate the cynical Murdoch/Bolt/Hadley/Jones/Devine tripe.
It's intellectually lazy to spread their rubbish.
'Raising' other people's brats is one of societies thankless tasks.
If its such a doodle, just go ahead and find out for yourself then tell us all about it.

Crap...

[Cheese3]

Originally Posted by ryeman

Good teachers (the vast majority) work 60 plus hrs/wk, dot regurgitate the cynical Murdoch/Bolt/Hadley/Jones/Devine tripe.
It's intellectually lazy to spread their rubbish.
'Raising' other people's brats is one of societies thankless tasks.
If its such a doodle, just go ahead and find out for yourself then tell us all about it.

I just finished a 68hr working week , doing the hours is easy I for one ain't a typical Gen Y stereotype. I have spoken to my mates who are Primary teachers and I have been deciding for afew years now on what to do because the writing was on the wall with the closure . I have actually done the odd Uni assignment to see if I could do the school part , the hardest part will be trying to pay off a mortgage while going to Uni.

The best perk for me to become a primary teacher is because Im male , when my 3 friends went to find a job and went to interviews the other applicants are 98% female but when they cull the numbers to the final four , three of them would be guys because schools are trying to boost the % of male to female teacher ratio.

Raising the "brats" I won't have any dramas , the part that I will find hard and will be hard to restrain myself is dealing with parents . . . I'm a realist and I tell it how it is , we encourage freedom of speech but your not allowed to say something that might upset someone . . I can vision a scenario already with a parent . . .

Me: "Hi there Missus Smith , thanks for coming in. We had an incident today with your son . He was bulling and physically pushing over another student at lunch today an . . . "

Missus Smith "How dare you accuse my son of that , he wouldn't do such a thing my poor little angel , you have no right single him out over other children"

and at that part ill start getting annoyed because they are bias and being irrational as they are blind because their baby boy is always innocent in their own eyes .

Originally Posted by flappist

So what you are saying is that you are upset that other have no idea about your job yet you clearly demonstrate that you have not the slightest idea what a teacher does or how much work they actually do......

Upset no , more annoyed how people believe getting a degree is the only way to get ahead in life . . . I do know more than I wrote in my first post , I only listed the perks better than what I have now , nothing about the job itself . . .

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

Ok first of all , is this thread about low level skilled/production workers only or trades aswell ?



I work at Ford Geelong as a Fitter and Turner , an reading that makes my blood boil . . . Why not paid the same if not more , what because teachers use the catch phrase "educating the future of tomorrow"

Is it because we are more mechanically gifted with our hands than the brains we deserve less ? Any tradesman who deals with engineers will tell you the majority are theorist and it should be mandatory for engineers to spend one year on the tools to understand and appreciate what we do . But instead I see new grads come into the work place thinking they know it all and will not take advice/listen to the guys who have been in the game for years . We just sit back watch them struggle, stuff up and waste time and show them days later in 5mins how to make their job easier . . . Knowledge is the key not a fancy suits and shiney shoes . . .

An one more thing , by the time I leave/loose my job lm going to university to become a primary school teacher , Im only 25 years old now and they have it set . . . 3 months off a year , pay increase of 20% over 4 years recently , later starts . . . To many perks already compared to a Trade , so no a teacher doesn't deserve more . . .

So what you are saying is that you are upset that other have no idea about your job yet you clearly demonstrate that you have not the slightest idea what a teacher does or how much work they actually do......

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

Ok first of all , is this thread about low level skilled/production workers only or trades aswell ?



I work at Ford Geelong as a Fitter and Turner , an reading that makes my blood boil . . . Why not paid the same if not more , what because teachers use the catch phrase "educating the future of tomorrow"

Is it because we are more mechanically gifted with our hands than the brains we deserve less ? Any tradesman who deals with engineers will tell you the majority are theorist and it should be mandatory for engineers to spend one year on the tools to understand and appreciate what we do . But instead I see new grads come into the work place thinking they know it all and will not take advice/listen to the guys who have been in the game for years . We just sit back watch them struggle, stuff up and waste time and show them days later in 5mins how to make their job easier . . . Knowledge is the key not a fancy suits and shiney shoes . . .

An one more thing , by the time I leave/loose my job lm going to university to become a primary school teacher , Im only 25 years old now and they have it set . . . 3 months off a year , pay increase of 20% over 4 years recently , later starts . . . To many perks already compared to a Trade , so no a teacher doesn't deserve more . . .

Did you go to school?

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

Ok first of all , is this thread about low level skilled/production workers only or trades aswell ?



I work at Ford Geelong as a Fitter and Turner , an reading that makes my blood boil . . . Why not paid the same if not more , what because teachers use the catch phrase "educating the future of tomorrow"

Is it because we are more mechanically gifted with our hands than the brains we deserve less ? Any tradesman who deals with engineers will tell you the majority are theorist and it should be mandatory for engineers to spend one year on the tools to understand and appreciate what we do . But instead I see new grads come into the work place thinking they know it all and will not take advice/listen to the guys who have been in the game for years . We just sit back watch them struggle, stuff up and waste time and show them days later in 5mins how to make their job easier . . . Knowledge is the key not a fancy suits and shiney shoes . . .

An one more thing , by the time I leave/loose my job lm going to university to become a primary school teacher , Im only 25 years old now and they have it set . . . 3 months off a year , pay increase of 20% over 4 years recently , later starts . . . To many perks already compared to a Trade , so no a teacher doesn't deserve more . . .

As a Mechanical Engineer, comments like this make my blood boil. If you are as clever as you somehow seem to think you are, why don't you go do 4 years at university and then come back to your existing job and really show those brainiacs who is boss. Surely you would be unbeatable with your self proclaimed excellece and an Engineering Degree as well !!!

[Cheese3]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Did you go to school?

Private Catholic Boys School , paid by the wages of my boiler maker father . . . Why you ask ?

Originally Posted by Spammy

As a Mechanical Engineer, comments like this make my blood boil. If you are as clever as you somehow seem to think you are, why don't you go do 4 years at university and then come back to your existing job and really show those brainiacs who is boss. Surely you would be unbeatable with your self proclaimed excellece and an Engineering Degree as well !!! (I totally agree with you I would destroy it having both sides of the tree :-) )

It would mean that I would have to jump the fence and become something I mock

nah all serious though , I have thought about it and personally I would like to try something left of field and challenging. My old man says to me get my underwater welding tickets and my brother who is a Chemical Engineer (yes he is one of you, grrrrr) says try Mech eng . . .

On the subject of my brother though who is 4 years older , he quit being a chemical engineer for 3 years nearly to work as a rigger on building sites . . . He was getting more money and the experience he gained on the tools is priceless as the tradies he works with now are shocked that he knows the difference between a spanner and a hammer

Originally Posted by chamb0

If you want to become a teacher because you think it's easy, I'm afraid you'll be in for a shock.

My girlfriend, sister in law and a few mates are teachers and I've seen it's not a cruisy gig. Try spending just one day looking after 20-odd little ****'s with all their attitudes and behavioural issues and see if you think the same thing. Teachers end up spending more time with kids than the parents do. After work hours and weekends they're often writing reports, marking, preparing lesson plans for the next day or week or researching ways to manage problem behaviour. Come report writing time they can disappear for weeks. This is all unpaid (I do admit that would hurt) in their free time but expected.

Someone once said the same thing to my girlfriend after a full-on week and she just looked back at them with a pale exhausted face and said "it's just not worth the money. You need those holidays to stay sane." If you're not dedicated to the job and prepared to really invest your life in it you won't make it.

I hope you love coordinating concerts and musicals and performing in front of kids and parents because you'll be doing heaps of that

Well I have never said a Teachers job is easy , my first initial post was reply to why Tradies should be paid less . . . It would be challenge and I would do my best to past if I don't party to much with the younger girls but with this thread about literacy mine has always been shocking I can remember my scores for the year 12 subjects I did .

General Maths : 32/50
Physics : 27/50
System Technology : 48/50 (yes it involved working with my hands)
and the last one English : 13/50

I look back on English now , I was left behind at year 10 trying to understand it and also I was a youngen kid . . . I finished year 12 when I was 17 , I wasn't mentally mature to grasp the English subject at all and I look at it now I could . . .

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Spammy

As a Mechanical Engineer, comments like this make my blood boil. If you are as clever as you somehow seem to think you are, why don't you go do 4 years at university and then come back to your existing job and really show those brainiacs who is boss. Surely you would be unbeatable with your self proclaimed excellece and an Engineering Degree as well !!!

A degree ..... 4 yrs of Uni or 6 even, how about 8
Actually, you might be surprised to know that more than 50% of the fitters/sparkies at Holden achieved on average approx. 6 yrs of post trade schooling and walked out with a trade in their chosen fields, gained an average of 15yrs trade experience and also held a minimum of an advanced cert. in engineering or an ***. Diploma, not to mention all the other certificates/licenses to go with it eg. first aid, heights, fire, confined space etc etc etc.
Including time spent in your apprenticeship, this equates to an average of 10yrs schooling within a single profession.
And yes, alot of the times those brainiacs were shown who's boss. So in relation to some other posts, its pretty obvious we were worth the money.

With Fords trade agreement having many common tiers with GMs, (post trade education) im assuming that many of their maintenance workers have also shown those brainiacs who's boss many a time.

[chamb0]

Originally Posted by Cheese3

An one more thing , by the time I leave/loose my job lm going to university to become a primary school teacher , Im only 25 years old now and they have it set . . . 3 months off a year , pay increase of 20% over 4 years recently , later starts . . . To many perks already compared to a Trade , so no a teacher doesn't deserve more . . .

If you want to become a teacher because you think it's easy, I'm afraid you'll be in for a shock.

My girlfriend, sister in law and a few mates are teachers and I've seen it's not a cruisy gig. Try spending just one day looking after 20-odd little ****'s with all their attitudes and behavioural issues and see if you think the same thing. Teachers end up spending more time with kids than the parents do. After work hours and weekends they're often writing reports, marking, preparing lesson plans for the next day or week or researching ways to manage problem behaviour. Come report writing time they can disappear for weeks. This is all unpaid in their free time but expected.

Someone once said the same thing to my girlfriend after a full-on week and she just looked back at them with a pale exhausted face and said "it's just not worth the money. You need those holidays to stay sane." If you're not dedicated to the job and prepared to really invest your life in it you won't make it.

I hope you love coordinating concerts and musicals and performing in front of kids and parents because you'll be doing heaps of that

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Spammy

Agreed but they can't be paid more than a school teacher at the same time, otherwise the product they are manufacturing will be too expensive to produce and cheaper imports will end up costing them their jobs.

Why not ?
Remember the core difference here - a school teacher provides a service whilst a manufacturer makes items to sell for profit, who's workers most certainly be entitled to a relative share of the profit pie.

Now im not even implying the worth of 1 vs the other, but comparing teachers vs manufacturers is ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Spammy

Continuing education and new skills is nothing new or unique. I have to do a certain number of relevant continuing education hours/points every year, even after 25 years in the industry. The point you seem to be missing is the higher the hurdle the fewer the people who can clear it and therefore the fewer who earn the bigger bucks..

I was highlighting a point against your reply to Cheese, and the tone in which you imply engineers know more than tradies purely coz they hold a degree.


Finally No, ongoing education / up skilling is nothing new nor unique, but neither is an engineer who 'often' looks down upon a tradesman and tries to discredit /dismiss real world knowledge/experience with a theory purely coz they hold degree '.

[ryeman]

The free GOAUTO emag has got a lot of automotive trade ads for employment positions FWIW.

[Spammy]

Originally Posted by fte50

Why not ?

I was highlighting a point against your reply to Cheese, and the tone in which you imply engineers know more than tradies purely coz they hold a degree.


'.

If a doctor is clumsy at sticking on band-aids does he know more or less than the first aid lady at school who is very good at sticking on band-aids?

[Smoke Pursuit]

And these people were getting paid $50 an hour?? Can someone please clear that up, what does a shift line worker actually get paid per hour? This is what Dowling suggests.

[GQ_Smooth]

$50 ph is the quoted "average" hourly rate. This would include overtime, afternoons shift, weekend and holiday rates. Sounds very close to me, if I was guessing I'd say $40-$45 average, but they may include super in their figures.

[jpd80]

Been through this argument overseas with US auto workers supposedly costing $76/hour.
These cost figures are arrived at by adding all pay benefits super contribution, leave loading,
sick pay, long services accrued in 12 months and then dividing through the actual hours available for work..

I think they even heap in training courses and cost of workers comp per worker...

[Ben73]

Nearly half of Australian are illiterate? Wonder where they draw the line of what's illiterate and what's not.

[jpblue1000]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Nearly half of Australian are illiterate? Wonder where they draw the line of what's illiterate and what's not.

Ben...If you could read its actually stated in the original post!

JP

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

Ben...If you could read its actually stated in the original post!

JP

I didn't read the OP completely. Maybe I am illiterate?

Illiterate means "Unable to read or write"
Functionally illiterate must mean you cannot read or write very well, but you can get by. They are saying that almost 1 in 2 people are functionally illiterate.
I want to know if there is some sort of line you have to cross from becoming functionally illiterate to literate.

Out of all the people I know I would only consider 1 of them to be "functionally illiterate" due to English being their second language.
I don't think I know any adults that I would consider to be illiterate.

Do you just need a university degree or something like that to cross from being functionally illiterate to literate?

[fte50]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Do you just need a university degree or something like that to cross from being functionally illiterate to literate?

Depends, you can go to uni , get a job and be functionally literate,
but then there is the functionally illiterate , such as those who study 'Arts' for the remainder of their life and do part time work in a 2nd hand clothing store but dont comprehend the term 'full time job'.

[Cheese3]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Nearly half of Australian are illiterate? Wonder where they draw the line of what's illiterate and what's not.

Near the same line that is drawn between full time employed and unemployed . . . Fudge the numbers to what suits them at the current time . . .

[Resurrection]

A friend of mine I've known since childhood used to work on the assembly line at Nissan as a spot welder. He has changed jobs almost 20 times in the 20 years since Nissan closed. Some low skilled workers will never be able to find secure employment once large manufacturing companies disappear.

[Bowser22]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

A friend of mine I've known since childhood used to work on the assembly line at Nissan as a spot welder. He has changed jobs almost 20 times in the 20 years since Nissan closed. Some low skilled workers will never be able to find secure employment once large manufacturing companies disappear.

Yep, I work in an aluminium smelter and some of the blokes I work with have been there for 20-30 years and didn't even finish school, they just do their job and go home. Fords will have guys budding on retirement age that will be looking for employment but have no qualifications.

[MITCHAY]

There are many 'professionals' I have met where you could question their 'functional literacy'

Anyways it's always a funny conversation when people try to make direct comparisons between completely different types of work. I have it on an almost weekly basis with my brother :