Some VIC Camera speeding fines scrapped

[EDManual]

Can you believe in 73 minutes, a camera caught almost 1000 people speeding! 242 over 25kmh over who would lose their licence for a month, and 22 would have lost their licence for 6 months! Something wrong there! Police say its fair enough that they all lose their licence!.....


Speeding fines erased for drivers on Western Ring Rd at Keilor East on June30

Michelle Ainsworth
Herald Sun
August 16, 2013 6:51PM


POLICE have scrapped almost 1000 speeding fines after the traffic camera watchdog ruled they were unfair.

A police statement said all fines incurred in 73 minutes on June 30 on the Western Ring Rd at Keilor East would be withdrawn.

"It is not in the public interest to pursue these matters," the statement said.

"Victoria Police will withdraw all speeding infringements and each driver will now receive an official warning."

The Herald Sun last week revealed Road Safety Camera Commissioner Gordon Lewis had recommended police withdraw 987 fines issued to drivers travelling through roadworks under the Keilor Park Drive bridge on the ring road.

"Each of the motorists did commit an offence," Mr Lewis said in his report.

"However, in the interests of fairness, I recommend that Victoria Police withdraw those infringement notices and issue official warnings in their place."

Police were reluctant to withdraw the fines.

"Some of the drivers who received infringements were recidivist speeders with appalling traffic history and well-documented records for speeding," the police statement said.

"Some people have even been caught speeding since this incident."

According to police data, 242 of the fined drivers were to lose their licence for a month for exceeding the speed limit by more than 25km/h. Another 22 would have lost their licence for six months because they were caught at more than 35km/h above the limit.

Of the 987, 38 have received another traffic infringement since June 30 and 131 had had more than three offences since July 1, 2011.

Mr Lewis found there were not enough signs to indicate a reduced speed limit because of the roadworks.

He recommended VicRoads ensure roadworks near speed cameras had "conspicuous signage".

But the police defended the signs.

"Victoria Police remains concerned in relation to the poor driver behaviour and excessive speed used by some motorists travelling through high-risk areas such as roadwork zones," it said.

"The signage did meet legal requirements and there were no errors with the speed camera itself."

michelle.ainsworth@news.com.au

[DJR-351]

"Recidivist"......now there is a new word of the day for me......

re·cid·i·vist

Noun...
A convicted criminal who reoffends, esp. repeatedly.

Adjective...
Denoting such a person: "recidivist male prisoners"; "women are rarely recidivist".

Synonyms...
repeater

[2011G6E]

They put "conspicuous signage" where the speed camera vans here in Queensland.

...well...they put a small sign of about 30 cm on a side, hanging on a little frame off to the side of the road, either tucked up under the front bumper of the van/four wheel drive near the gutter, or more usually hidden in long grass, facing directly towards the road so you can only read it from the side as you drive past...

...other than that, they're very "conspicuous"...


I sit religiously on the speed limits through roadworks...I don't want to have to stand up in court and explain why I ran over that roadworker, or explain to my insurance company after a bingle, why I was doing 20 or 30kph over the lower limit at roadworks...
Of course, a week or so back on my motorbike I did do 90kph through a 40kph roadworks zone.
Then again, in my defence I did have an Emerald Carrying Company b-double fuel tanker about five meters behind me, so I was kind of reluctant to hit the brakes at the lower speed zone and diplomatically decided to let him dictate what speed I should do...

[Lardman]

If that many people are caught speeding and "blatantly disregarding the law" as they say, isn't that a sign that the law itself is stuffed?

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Lardman

If that many people are caught speeding and "blatantly disregarding the law" as they say, isn't that a sign that the law itself is stuffed?

I always wonder that...they set up on, say , one of the big motorways down near Brisbane or the Gold Coast on a weekend, and say proudly that they caught "2000 speeding motorists!" or whatever.
I want to ask them "How many extra accidents were there over that period of time?".

If the answer is "Well...none actually...", then doesn't that suggest the speed limit ought to be looked at?

[MAD]

It's all a massive joke these days.
It's all about finding new ways they can skim the bank accounts of thousands under the guise of "safety".

[prydey]

clearly, driving a motor vehicle is a very difficult task

[The FOMOCO]

Originally Posted by MAD

It's all a massive joke these days.
It's all about finding new ways they can skim the bank accounts of thousands under the guise of "safety".

I couldn't agree more in Adelaide there is no signs at all as you go past the Toyota Camry with " safety" camera Hidden inside with the black as!! tinted windows it looks Too Dark to be Legal. its all about$$$$$ Revenue .I am not saying this because i speed and have been pinged by them . I haven't There "sneaky" little tactics are just annoying. I just cant help but think if safety is the reason why are they "sneaky" about it. Why not be up front a nice big sign say 1 meter long on the footpath saying warning safety camera ahead "save lives" and "check your speed now driver" But no that doesn't happen they should be Banned .

[MAD]

If that many people got fined in that space of time, at those levels; Clearly there was something wrong with the signage.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by MAD

If that many people got fined in that space of time, at those levels; Clearly there was something wrong with the signage.

That's what I'd suspect...surely that many people can't all deliberately break the speed limit through roadworks all at once...

I've seen roadworks on the highway where the speed zone sign on your side of the road is turned aside, but the one on the other side of the road (up here they put the signs on both sides of the road approaching the road works area) is still turned so you can read the speed.
I always wonder if I should slow down, or has the sign on my side been turned around deliberately and you can do normal road speed...or has it been accidentally moved and the other one on the other side of the road should be taken notice of...or what...

In a situation like that...say one sign blew down and you didn't notice the one on the opposite side of the road...you could easily get fined for "speeding" when you honestly believed you weren't doing anything wrong.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by MAD

If that many people got fined in that space of time, at those levels; Clearly there was something wrong with the signage.

what is the normal volume of traffic on that road in that timeframe? i'd say 1000 drivers would be a very low percentage.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by prydey

what is the normal volume of traffic on that road in that timeframe? i'd say 1000 drivers would be a very low percentage.

987 infringements in 73 minutes is one every 4.4 seconds. How low a percentage would you assume that is?

[EDManual]

Originally Posted by EVLKNEVL

987 infringements in 73 minutes is one every 4.4 seconds. How low a percentage would you assume that is?

haha, year not a low %! perhaps 1 out of 5 cars!? 20% Thats how many should have huge fines and lose their licence for causing massive damage and killing all the roadworkers!
Who'd bet there were no roadworks at this spot, and it was a 1 KM past the roadworks!

Makes me sick seeing signs when theres roadworks like "you may not see us, but think of us" WHY!!! You are not there, we are not going to KILL YOU! Who cares about you?! Seriously... I Have eyes! I can see there are no roadworks, and you are NOT THERE! ;-D!!! haha

Having been again (just back a week) to Europe (Switz and France) the roadworks are a bit of a laugh! I love it!
France : Lines going nowhere, no warnings just trucks blocking one side of the road, and you make your way around the other side of the road when no ones coming. I was considering this as being odd and perhaps dangerous when compared to having a 20kmh sign and people holding up lollipops everywhere, and as its in a way not nannied, you have to think hard and be careful. No problems.
I know an almost cheif of police of Paris (Father of my brother in laws girlfriend )...yep, you probably wont believe me :-), anyway he was saying its all about personal responsibility in france. He was shocked at the rules in Australia... In france basically making decisions yourself keeps you thinking and being smart. Thats the French ideal apparently!

[hedgehobb]

All I know is every single time I enter a 40km/h roadworks zone, a semi-trailer instantly appears on my *** and stays exactly 1/4 of an inch off my rear bumper.

[Silver Ghia]

Maybe if the signs are set up and regulated in a way that will gain more respect from drivers, drivers will obey them more.

-Not set up a long way before and/or after the actual roadworks.
-Signage should be at frequent intervals along the speed restricted zone.
-Signage at the end saying 'End Roadworks' with the normal speed limit sign (this is commonly missing, making the driver wonder if the speed is back to normal or not).
-Removal or covering of speed limit signs when the contractors have moved on to another work site, or knocked off for the day.

[roberts]

seems to me that the hidden fixed cameras under the bridge people where traveling under where changed to 40kmh from 80 due to road works

[jpblue1000]

If the described road is where im thinking it is there have been major roadworks there for along time, and its a well signposted 80K zone. every time I travel along that part of the road the left lane sits at 80K maybe a bit slower while the right lane is taken up by those who knio wbettrer and travel at the original speed limit, 100km/h+
Im guessing the roadworks have been there so long people don't care or think they are above the law then can disregard the speed limit.
Easy pray for the revenue raisers.

JP

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

If the described road is where im thinking it is there have been major roadworks there for along time, and its a well signposted 80K zone. every time I travel along that part of the road the left lane sits at 80K maybe a bit slower while the right lane is taken up by those who knio wbettrer and travel at the original speed limit, 100km/h+
Im guessing the roadworks have been there so long people don't care or think they are above the law then can disregard the speed limit.
Easy pray for the revenue raisers.

JP

It was 100 along there a few weeks ago with roadworks finished, there must have been a temporary roadworks happening there at the time which reduced it to 40.

[dom_105]

The real travesty is that evidently not enough was done to slow drivers down through what must be a dangerous part of road.

The fines indicate a deficiency to properly protect those working along that part of road.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Maybe if the signs are set up and regulated in a way that will gain more respect from drivers, drivers will obey them more.

-Not set up a long way before and/or after the actual roadworks.
-Signage should be at frequent intervals along the speed restricted zone.
-Signage at the end saying 'End Roadworks' with the normal speed limit sign (this is commonly missing, making the driver wonder if the speed is back to normal or not).
-Removal or covering of speed limit signs when the contractors have moved on to another work site, or knocked off for the day.

From what i've seen on all the road works in our region (and there's been a lot of them the last couple of years) they pretty much stick to that.
First, they do actually have to be set up a long way before, with plenty of notice...especially to avoid stuff like having them just over the rise of a hill or around a corner or something. It gives people...big trucks especially...time to slow down. If they do.
Second, they do indeed seem to have the signs regularly along the roadworks to give you a prompt what speed you need to be doing.
Third, they could use some improvement on this point...quite often they miss out on the "end roadworks" sign or it's fallen over or doesn't have a return to normal speed limit sign, leaving you guessing.
Fourth, they're pretty good at this too...the very slow signs will be gone/covered up, and if there's a changed lane or series of witches hats/bollards along a new lane or something, it will have a different limit at night/when not working...say, 60kph during actual work, and 80 during off times.

[Auslandau]

Just to put it in perspective where it was ..... There was a road works sign at the start that's slowed people to 40 k's into a single line and was sign posted and fair enough. Problem was after the road works the lane went back to 3 lanes and there was not another sign for approx 500 metres. Just before this sign they had a speed camera but the distance between the finished road works and the 80 k zone was deemed way too far and the camera was set up in no mans land. They deemed it very unfair ..... The police didn't. It was a good outcome for those who got caught. Doing 25 over (loss of licence area) was done by the majority as the signage was confusing after the road works.

[EVLKNEVL]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Just to put it in perspective where it was ..... There was a road works sign at the start that's slowed people to 40 k's into a single line and was sign posted and fair enough. Problem was after the road works the lane went back to 3 lanes and there was not another sign for approx 500 metres. Just before this sign they had a speed camera but the distance between the finished road works and the 80 k zone was deemed way too far and the camera was set up in no mans land. They deemed it very unfair ..... The police didn't. It was a good outcome for those who got caught. Doing 25 over (loss of licence area) was done by the majority as the signage was confusing after the road works.

Based on that set of circumstances, it seems like about 987 drivers exercised discretion. They had realised that they were a long way past the "hazard" that the temporary speed limit was there to serve, and that normal driving could be safely resumed. Stacked up against reality and common sense, by and large those drivers behaved reasonably. Stacked up against legislation on the other hand, those drivers are all guilty and should all pay substantial fines and lose points off their licenses (or indeed lose their licenses altogether).

As lawful and politically correct it would have been for the police to punish all those motorists for using their discretion, I'm relieved that common sense prevailed in this instance.

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Just to put it in perspective where it was ..... There was a road works sign at the start that's slowed people to 40 k's into a single line and was sign posted and fair enough. Problem was after the road works the lane went back to 3 lanes and there was not another sign for approx 500 metres. Just before this sign they had a speed camera but the distance between the finished road works and the 80 k zone was deemed way too far and the camera was set up in no mans land. They deemed it very unfair ..... The police didn't. It was a good outcome for those who got caught. Doing 25 over (loss of licence area) was done by the majority as the signage was confusing after the road works.

Going by this description there could have even been the possibility where the roadworks traffic management (who closed the lanes and put up the signs the way they were) and the ring road traffic management (who readjusted the speed cameras to 40kph) conspired to see how many drivers they could nab.

Which is why I suggested earlier that there should be stricter requirements when setting up roadworks traffic controls, so that drivers will respect the roadworks speeds more.

[Auslandau]

Yep. And that's the point. Everyone has said yes, by the letter of the law, they were speeding but common sense says it should have been better sign posted after the roadworks and the 80 zone should have been in affect way earlier where it was safe to do so instead of so far after. To plonk a camera where it was was deemed as not appropriate which is a good outcome for common sense. Something that is lacking in the speed camera debate

[Gaz]

If it's anything like road works in WA it's gone from 100km/h to 40/60km/h and the whole section of road is separated by ADR approved crash barriers.

Yep, lets make our only major north route a 40/60kmh affair, for 10km's when the works are on the other side of a crash barrier. I could handle it being 80km/h for changed conditions but halving the limit is retarded.

[Ben73]

I have a few problems with roadworks
1. Starting the lower speed 300 metres plus before any work is being done.
2. Leaving up very slow speed limits at 3am when the road is in it's normal condition and all workers are home in bed.
3. Having stupidly low limits because they are building something off to the side of the road while the road is in it's normal position.

Worst one I ever saw was the 100 zone on the Golden Hwy dropped to 40kmh for more than 20km.
Reason was there were small work sites every 4 or 5kms apart. By small worksites I mean a few cars parked on the side of the road as they were playing around with a cable about 10m off the side of the road.
No I didn't do 40 the whole time, I just slowed down as I approached workers. It's not that hard to use common sense really.

[neptune blue]

If it wasn't for the complaints to the Neil Mitchell program on 3aw the fines would have stood
Even the speed camera ombudsman thought it was unfair and recommended the fines be withdrawn but the police dug their heals in initially.
A victory for the common man
Power to the people !

[buggerlugs]

I got done again during the week. Another 3 points and $330.00 down the gurglar. Running out of points rapidly. Pumped the tyres up on the Malvern Star dragsta this arvo in anticipation................

[SPArKy_Dave]

Here's a podcast, of the 3aw radio show, where everyone called in complaining about the fines -

http://media.mytalk.com.au/3AW/AUDIO...eilpodcast.mp3

http://www.3aw.com.au/blogs/neil-mit...726-2qojy.html

[hedgehobb]

So common sense doesn't prevail until I complain? That's Australian common sense!