Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV impressions

[whynot]

The lease is up on the Ford Territory and I have replaced it with a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV. Ok, I know this is a Ford Forum, but I thought there might be some interest in what it is like to drive with this technology. Does it make financial sense? No. But, it was a toy that I wanted to play with, and that is a good enough excuse for me.

The basics. The PHEV mechanicals fits inside a standard Mitsubishi Outlander. It has a 12kWh battery bank under the floor (about 9.6kWh usable), 60 kW electric motors front and rear, and a petrol engine rated at 89kW connected to a generator. The battery has enough energy to drive the car about 52 km under perfect conditions. However, turn the air conditioner on and the range drops dramatically to around 37km (or worse depending on how hot it is).

Unlike the Tesla, it is not going to win any traffic light drags. In fact, it is probably as slow as the diesel Territory off the mark, and only slightly faster to 100kph. For a normal take off, the throttle needs a decent push (for my liking), but once rolling the acceleration is OK and very linear. As long as the power draw stays under 60kW, it will accelerate on battery. Acceleration is eerily quiet, with just a far off electric whirl, almost like the noise from inside an electric train. Above 40 kph, road and wind noise overtakes the sound from the electric motors. Sitting on the highway at 100kph, the combination of road and wind noise is, to my ears at least, louder than the inside of a diesel Territory. It is quite happy to cruise at 100kph on the highway just in battery mode (while there is still juice left).

If you have a Honda inverter electric generator, you’ll get the idea of how the petrol-generator combination works in the Outlander. Under Wide Open Throttle, the petrol-generator kicks in with a single note roar. Sort of sounds like a sewing machine on full revs. As the throttle closes, the engine cuts back to a moderate, almost indistinguishable hum. And, if it can, the petrol engine throttles down and turns off. If the battery is flat and the engine is left to its own devices, it cuts in and out while driving in peak hour traffic. Occasionally, one pulls up at the lights and the engine is burring away at full bore. It then shuts down, and when the light turns green, one moves off in almost complete silence. There are two buttons on the centre console. One tells the engine to recharge the battery. In this mode the engine runs at low speed, but flaring to higher revs when called on to provide additional power. The other mode is a charge hold mode. In this mode the petrol engine-generator does most of the work, leaving the battery charge as is. Unlike an engine connected to a mechanical gearbox, the engine revs do not rise and fall as the car works its way through the gears. Instead, the engine picks its revs to suit the power demand at the time. The revs rises to one set point and holds it – delivering constant power – until it is called to go to another rev set point.

On battery, I can get to work and nearly all of the way home. The engine only cuts in a few times, mainly because I want more acceleration when climbing up hills from rest. Fuel consumption into work is around 0.8l/100km of petrol, plus electricity around 20 kWh/100km. I haven’t had a clear run back to home yet, but I drain the battery around 10km from home and it then costs me around 3l/100km of petrol (total average for the trip).

For the sparkies amongst us, the vehicle requires a 15Amp socket outlet. Current draw is around 13.3A. It has a soft start system, which takes around 10 seconds after being turned on before it draws any current. For the first few minutes, it is only drawing around 5 Amps (I should put a tong tester on it sometime). While I haven’t sat and watched it, by 30 minutes later, it is drawing full current. It takes around 5 hours to reach full charge, tapering off the charging rate as the battery approaches full. The PHEV has an onboard timer that can be set to draw power at the cheapest rates for those on Time of Use tariffs. It is quite happy with interruptible tariffs.

In my case, the PHEV is parked in the carport. The first concern is that the charging lead costs $1,000 to replace! And, knowing the neighbourhood that I live in, having someone take the lead (even as a souvenir) is a concern. There is no way to “lock” the lead to the vehicle or the wall. My temporary solution is to mount the charge controller in a jiffbox to make it harder for a random to just pinch it. As electric cars become more popular, there is going to be real issues with people pinching charging leads (especially at $1,000 a pop), just like there are issues today with people stealing GPS navigators out of cars. The manufacturers really need to get their head around this concern and move the electronics so that a simple (and cheap to replace) 15A extension lead will suffice to charge a car. Or, somehow, make the lead lockable to the car.

The nicest complement about the PHEV is that it does not look like an electric vehicle. It is just as bland as any other Japanese SUV. Steering is OK. It could do with more feedback, but tracks reasonably straight. Suspension is very stiff (to control the extra weight) and it bounces around on surfaces that the Territory would just glide over. Driving position is not as good as the Territory, seating is very upright and lacking support. Nor is the handling. On the open road, the Territory wins hands down for refinement, driver comfort, and drivability.

Around town, it is a slightly different story, particularly in peak hour traffic. The Outlander PHEV is almost silent. In fact, 99% of the objectionable noise is coming from the other cars and trucks sharing the road with you. The Adaptive Cruise Control works well. Haven’t triggered the Forward Collision Mitigation, yet. The ergonomics of the central display is a nightmare.

In terms of build quality, I have not spotted one fault or flaw. It is exceptionally well screwed together. Lots of attention to detail. There is some interesting technology on the car as well. For example, the air conditioner compressor is electrically driven. If the engine is cold, there is a water heater for internal cabin heat. The battery pack has its own liquid cooling system. A timer can be set to electrically cool/heat/demist the cabin; all done in silence.

The PHEV is a fascinating insight into where automotive technology is heading. One thing is for certain, the automobile is not dead. Nor is it going to die when oil eventually runs out. The future for the automobile and the automotive industry is now more exciting than it ever was.

[XR6Runner]

The real question, does it do a burn out?

[whynot]

Originally Posted by XR6Runner

The real question, does it do a burn out?

Would you believe it could pull the skin of a rice custard?

Err, no. Unfortunately, no burnouts. For starters, it has full time AWD.

Electric motors produce their maximum torque from rest. Apparently, the front and rear electric motors in the PHEV have slightly different gearing ratios to give a better spread of acceleration across the speed range. That means less low down urge out of the PHEV.

But, it doesn't mean that electric vehicles cannot be fast

http://www.topgear.com/au/videos/electric-shocker

[harrymaxson]

Originally Posted by whynot

Would you believe it could pull the skin of a rice custard?

Err, no. Unfortunately, no burnouts. For starters, it has full time AWD.

Electric motors produce their maximum torque from rest. Apparently, the front and rear electric motors in the PHEV have slightly different gearing ratios to give a better spread of acceleration across the speed range. That means less low down urge out of the PHEV.

But, it doesn't mean that electric vehicles cannot be fast

http://www.topgear.com/au/videos/electric-shocker

charged battery,4wd lock on, eco off and smash the throttle to the floor. wont be too many cars around that will get near you from a standing start

[harrymaxson]

My wife also has the PHEV, which replaced her 04 Territory. Why?

She is a mobile dog groomer, and daily tows a 1100kg dog grooming salon. She averages 8.05l/100klm while towing. The improved low down torque is what allows these figures to be achieved. 130000 klms on it now and nothing has broken. as an urban tow vehicle, it is great. As a touring vehicle towing a poptop caravan, forget it. battery lasts about an hour tops, and then you are averaging about 15l/100klm. But when you finally get to the van park (after many fuel stops, 40 litre tank doesnt go far at 15l/100klm) you can plug in and charge for free to do your local sight seeing. I would love a Tesla, but that money buys lots of petrol!

[Franco Cozzo]

Awesome to hear about these things, out of curiosity whats the life on the battery bank and how much over the counter for a new battery bank? Whats involved in changing it out?

Are there any slow charge options when its plugged into the wall rather than fast charging it? As fast charging significantly reduces the life of batteries.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Awesome to hear about these things, out of curiosity whats the life on the battery bank and how much over the counter for a new battery bank? Whats involved in changing it out?

Are there any slow charge options when its plugged into the wall rather than fast charging it? As fast charging significantly reduces the life of batteries.

Hi Damo,

Plugging it into a 15A socket is the "slow charge" option. Looking at some of the charge curves I have seen on the internet, it starts in slow charge mode, then moves to a charge rate around 3.2kW/h, and then tapers off to a trickle charge in the final part of the charge. A fast charge occurs at the charging station and will take it to 70% charge in 30 minutes, before dropping into trickle charge mode.

Battery has a five year/ 130,000 km warranty. Design life is 65% capacity after ten years. If one can believe the internet chat ... apparently, the battery bank is grouped into 3 X 4KW cells. By design, one set cops the most work and one set is worked very little. The set that does the most work has the shortest life. The idea is that if battery performance is down, swapping out the first 1/3 will restore most of the capacity. Changing the entire battery bank costs around $12K and takes 2 hours. A good home mechanic should be able to do the battery swap.

The other point to keep in mind is that the price of batteries is falling. In ten years time, I would expect replacement batteries to be half the cost they are today and will have significantly more capacity. It is quite possible that someone will do a battery swap on the PHEV in 10 years time for the equivalent price of a new ZF gearbox and have a 24kWh battery bank as a replacement.

[malazn mafia]

How do I tell if a power socket is 15A? Lucky enough to have a standard 240v power socket in my car space. Wouldn't mind free motoring lol

[Cashie]

Thanks for taking the time to provide a review on your PHEV. Sounds what I was expecting.

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How do I tell if a power socket is 15A? Lucky enough to have a standard 240v power socket in my car space. Wouldn't mind free motoring lol

It will have a large earth pin/socket on it.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

How do I tell if a power socket is 15A? Lucky enough to have a standard 240v power socket in my car space. Wouldn't mind free motoring lol

15A plug has a big earth pin, its huge.

[Franco Cozzo]

What sort of voltages are we talking about here with the battery bank? Because some hybrids are doing around 600V and there is currently no training for apprentice auto electricians going through today about the dangers of these vehicles.

This is something you don't want your back yarder, mechanic or apprentice fiddling about with a test light or uninsulated tools if hybrids start rolling into their shops after the warranty period expires.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

What sort of voltages are we talking about here with the battery bank? Because some hybrids are doing around 600V and there is currently no training for apprentice auto electricians going through today about the dangers of these vehicles.

This is something you don't want your back yarder, mechanic or apprentice fiddling about with a test light or uninsulated tools if hybrids start rolling into their shops after the warranty period expires.

Yeah, I agree. There are a new set of safety challenges with the electric electric vehicles. While the high DC voltage is an issue, the bigger concern is the fault current that these batteries can generate. A short circuit with a spanner in the wrong spot will produce a really big ball of plasma. However, using proper insulated tools combined with a good work practice and it should not be an issue. But, to keep a sense of perspective, petrol and LPG are just as dangerous in inexperienced hands.

Interestingly, the Qld Electrical Safety Act has a specific clause that excludes electric vehicles from the Act.

[Franco Cozzo]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkJjt_Peg0

Electric E36 BMW, 850ftlb torque at the wheels.

They go for a spin in it too and comment, its alright to watch.

Originally Posted by whynot

Yeah, I agree. There are a new set of safety challenges with the electric electric vehicles. While the high DC voltage is an issue, the bigger concern is the fault current that these batteries can generate. A short circuit with a spanner in the wrong spot will produce a really big ball of plasma. However, using proper insulated tools combined with a good work practice and it should not be an issue. But, to keep a sense of perspective, petrol and LPG are just as dangerous in inexperienced hands.

Interestingly, the Qld Electrical Safety Act has a specific clause that excludes electric vehicles from the Act.

Even things like arcing out when connecting up battery bank etc, the flash from it or hazards associated with high voltage, AFAIK there is nothing in regulation in Victoria at the moment, that was last year at TAFE during the end of my apprenticeship schooling.

Kangan Institute was running a course for Nissan mechanics for the Nissan LEAF and they did a short course in Hybrids before the government cut heaps of funding to TAFE and the teacher got let go.

There is nothing covered in the course for auto electricians which is scary. Also what about emergency services? If the fire fighter needs to cut you out and cuts through some wires carrying high voltage etc.

The problem with common sense is whats common sense for me as an ex auto electrician won't be common sense for someone else, I can see it when I pop the bonnet on peoples cars and see some odd DIY wiring jobs or wiring done by LV mechanics with good intentions but poor execution due to lack of knowledge/training in that area and thats only with 12V, worst case scenario you set your car on fire.

With 600V worst case scenario is your death and this is where the Government is going to have to step in before this technology becomes mainstream and sort out legislation, regulation and training requirements before we get casualties.

This problem will probably start occuring in 15-20 years time when the technology picks up and becomes standard and we've got AFF members swapping out battery banks and changing wiring to make their cars faster.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkJjt_Peg0

This problem will probably start occuring in 15-20 years time when the technology picks up and becomes standard and we've got AFF members swapping out battery banks and changing wiring to make their cars faster.

Yeah, agree with the sentiment ... but it is not unlike ICE fitted with airbags and other toys is without safety risks either. We are just going to have to pick up a new set of skills, just like our grandfathers did when they moved from steam to ICE.

Found these instructions about how to work safely with a PHEV. It looks like a Dutch version translated to English using Google. But, there is enough there to get the general idea of the challenges with large battery banks.

http://insideoutlander.boards.net/th...tch-mitsubishi

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVkJjt_Peg0

Electric E36 BMW, 850ftlb torque at the wheels.

They go for a spin in it too and comment, its alright to watch.



Even things like arcing out when connecting up battery bank etc, the flash from it or hazards associated with high voltage, AFAIK there is nothing in regulation in Victoria at the moment, that was last year at TAFE during the end of my apprenticeship schooling.

Kangan Institute was running a course for Nissan mechanics for the Nissan LEAF and they did a short course in Hybrids before the government cut heaps of funding to TAFE and the teacher got let go.

There is nothing covered in the course for auto electricians which is scary. Also what about emergency services? If the fire fighter needs to cut you out and cuts through some wires carrying high voltage etc.

The problem with common sense is whats common sense for me as an ex auto electrician won't be common sense for someone else, I can see it when I pop the bonnet on peoples cars and see some odd DIY wiring jobs or wiring done by LV mechanics with good intentions but poor execution due to lack of knowledge/training in that area and thats only with 12V, worst case scenario you set your car on fire.

With 600V worst case scenario is your death and this is where the Government is going to have to step in before this technology becomes mainstream and sort out legislation, regulation and training requirements before we get casualties.

This problem will probably start occuring in 15-20 years time when the technology picks up and becomes standard and we've got AFF members swapping out battery banks and changing wiring to make their cars faster.

Silly question, but why does an EV car need to run such high voltages? Can't 12 or 24Volt at some insane amps get a high torque motor kicking with ease?

[whynot]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Silly question, but why does an EV car need to run such high voltages? Can't 12 or 24Volt at some insane amps get a high torque motor kicking with ease?

Running at a higher voltage reduces resistive losses in the cables, so the conductor size can be smaller for the same power transfer. The voltage chosen is a tradeoff between the additional expense for the higher voltage and the additional expense (and weight) of thicker conductors for lower voltages. I think the voltage in the PHEV is around 300V direct current (DC).

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Silly question, but why does an EV car need to run such high voltages? Can't 12 or 24Volt at some insane amps get a high torque motor kicking with ease?

Originally Posted by whynot

Running at a higher voltage reduces resistive losses in the cables, so the conductor size can be smaller for the same power transfer. The voltage chosen is a tradeoff between the additional expense for the higher voltage and the additional expense (and weight) of thicker conductors for lower voltages. I think the voltage in the PHEV is around 300V direct current (DC).

whynot covered it really well, basically:

If you have high voltage you have less current, if you've got low voltage with huge current you need huge wires.

Imagine how many amps you'd need at 12V instead of 300V and how thick the wires would have to be to deal with that much current?

[Windsor220]

I've driven a few of these and they seem ok. Bit strange at first. Actually going to the intro course for it in a couple of weeks so will be interesting to find out the specs.

[The Yeti]

Thanks for the review

I replaced my wife's 07 territory with a 2013 MY14 ES and liked it so much I got an 2014 MY15.5 AWD LS as my work car and like your review it's not one for dragging at the lights but in every other aspect it's a great 7seat family car

[GASWAGON]

Finally a manufacturer has produced and EV in a SUV/Wagon package.......I am VERY interested.

[Bossxr8]

How can you handle the look of the thing. One of the most boring, bland designs I have seen lately. Mitsubishi styling has been a massive fail of late.

But in saying that it they have done well to price it where they have. Even cheaper than a Holden FvOLT which is much smaller and 2wd.

[whynot]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

How can you handle the look of the thing. One of the most boring, bland designs I have seen lately. Mitsubishi styling has been a massive fail of late.

But in saying that it they have done well to price it where they have. Even cheaper than a Holden FvOLT which is much smaller and 2wd.

Pitty that FOA haven't got access to this technology. Rip out the existing drive train out of a Territory and replace it with bits and pieces from 2014 Ford Focus Electric. Say, 107kW electric motors front and rear, sling in the 23kWh battery bank under the floor, and put an eco-tech motor in the front coupled to a generator. That is what Mitsubishi have done.

http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/trim/electric/

[timeout]

Originally Posted by whynot

Pitty that FOA haven't got access to this technology. Rip out the existing drive train out of a Territory and replace it with bits and pieces from 2014 Ford Focus Electric. Say, 107kW electric motors front and rear, sling in the 23kWh battery bank under the floor, and put an eco-tech motor in the front coupled to a generator. That is what Mitsubishi have done.

http://www.ford.com/cars/focus/trim/electric/

They were working on one. Google project amber or
See this http://rvcs-prodweb.dot.gov.au/pls/w...TERRITORY+2+EV

[Wretched]

Good to see Mitsubishi doing this. Finally we (AU) get this technology in something useable at a decent price (Lexus RX450h is beyond the means of many).

I was very skeptical initially of the plan but I have read a few positive reviews of it. I'd be keen to drive something like this for a week to see how it goes.
So much win with other makes introducing this into their range.
thanks for the review.

[zilo]

Great positive revue...pity it's not a Ford.

Mitsubishi have stated that they are embarking on a global emphasis to electric/hybrid cars.

So much so that north American manufacturing has stalled all petrol based engine manufacturing....

Is anyone at Ford...or Holden for that matter listening?

Missed the boat.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by zilo

Great positive revue...pity it's not a Ford.

Mitsubishi have stated that they are embarking on a global emphasis to electric/hybrid cars.

So much so that north American manufacturing has stalled all petrol based engine manufacturing....

Is anyone at Ford...or Holden for that matter listening?

Missed the boat.

Ford have a whole range of Hybrids and plug in electric vehicles in the US, but considering electric vehicles and hybrids sell 2 fifths of bugger all in Australia, Ford are wise to not bother with them, at least until they start selling in numbers greater than hundreds per year.

The Holden Volt is selling in single digits.

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Ford have a whole range of Hybrids and plug in electric vehicles in the US, but considering electric vehicles and hybrids sell 2 fifths of bugger all in Australia, Ford are wise to not bother with them, at least until they start selling in numbers greater than hundreds per year.

The Holden Volt is selling in single digits.

Actually doesn't Ford US sell nearly as much hybrids as Toyota in the US?

[GASWAGON]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Actually doesn't Ford US sell nearly as much hybrids as Toyota in the US?

And also how many of these new Mitsi's are selling in the U.S???

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Actually doesn't Ford US sell nearly as much hybrids as Toyota in the US?

Toyota have sold a million hybrids in the US in the last ten years .

you might want to check that statement....

[lamborghinifan]

So with an average of about say 20kWh/100 this would roughly equate to about $6 bucks a 100km in recharge costs (using approx 30c/kWh)? Enough to justify the outright cost of vehicle? Unless you can couple it to a solar system it still would add up, but the disadvantage is that the time you'd like to charge would be when you get home at night. Off peak supply would make sense providing your local energy provider allows it. Would be good to see theme beginning to make provision for this tech.