Why is Ford really giving up on Falcon and Territory?

drz250 · 06-06-2016, 11:36 PM

I have been wondering why Ford is actually stopping the manufacture of Falcons and Territorys.

People say it's because not enough people are buying them but I see plenty of Falcons and Territorys on the road.
In fact I have 3 Falcons and a Territory. The Terry was bought new and the Falcons were near-new.

So I don't understand why Ford would stop building such a great car?

It doesn't make sense. What is your opinion?

Crazy Dazz · 06-06-2016, 11:52 PM

What you say is actually quite true, but the problems facing the Falcon & Terry are broadly twofold:

Firstly, its just much cheaper to make things in Asia (or even SA, etc.) That's why plans to build the Focus here were nixed. So local manufacturing is ending.

The second, and perhaps major issue, is that they are really only sold here (and in a few limited export markets.)
There are plenty of cars available here that sell far less than the Falcon. But the difference is that they are sold all over the world. Its all about volume. Building cars that only sell in one small market just isn't profitable.

Windsor220 · 06-06-2016, 11:53 PM

This has been talked about to death on this forum. They dont sell enough. Falcon would be lucky to sell 500 a month. Commodore which has been completely updated only sells 2500 a month. The majority of people dont want large sedans anymore. The Territory still has a place but the factory cant survive just selling them. It will be replaced by an imported model.

While you still buy Falcons and enjoy them most people have moved on to other things.

**Fordman1** · 07-06-2016, 06:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drz250

I have been wondering why Ford is actually stopping the manufacture of Falcons and Territorys.

People say it's because not enough people are buying them but I see plenty of Falcons and Territorys on the road.
In fact I have 3 Falcons and a Territory. The Terry was bought new and the Falcons were near-new.

So I don't understand why Ford would stop building such a great car?

It doesn't make sense. What is your opinion?

Umm.

It's because the ROI doesn't work.

The plant needs very volune of 100,000 to make it feasible.

**sierra63** · 07-06-2016, 07:02 AM

I also thought a contributing factor was the costs associated to meet growing emissions standards for the inline six...., just to add to the low production and non exportation...

madmelon · 07-06-2016, 07:57 AM

Production in Australia for most manufactured goods simply doesn't add up because the scale of things here just doesn't make sense. Most facilities here are set up at a scale 1/5th, 1/10th (or less) of what things are done elsewhere in the world, especially China. That means fixed costs and R&D must be supported by a smaller volume and as such, per unit cost is higher. On top of that, manufacturing wages here are significantly higher than most of the rest of the world, further adding to the per unit cost. Competing against Asia also brings the problem of OHS and Environmental factors, which in many Asian countries aren't even considered, let alone regulated.

On the consumer side of things, realise that Australians are typically unpatriotic when it comes to country of manufacture. The vast majority of Australians do not care where their goods are manufactured- they almost exclusively look at the price and the 'value', making a decision based on those things. When it comes to 'premium' purchases, where a consumer here wants to stand out from the crowd, brand goes to the top of the list. When it comes down to it, Ford, Holden and Toyota are not premium brands and never will be. The products they make here are not typical of what the majority of the rest of the world consumes either- Large cars are simply a small proportion of the global market.

For Ford and Holden, there is an additional factor: they're American companies. Don't underestimate the power of the United Auto Workers Union to influence the product decisions of Ford and GM. Falcon and Commodore going to the rest of the world in preference to a US made product would, generally speaking, cost US jobs. Falcon and Fairlane could have easily replaced the pathetic Crown Victoria in US and Mid-East decades ago. Likewise the Commodore and Statesman with the terrible Chev Caprice and Lumina. The inward-looking nature of the US parent companies plus UAW influence means the really big scale manufacturing that is necessary for profitability was never going to happen in Australia.

Moby Vic · 07-06-2016, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by madmelon

Falcon and Fairlane could have easily replaced the pathetic Crown Victoria in US and Mid-East decades ago.

Hey now! I've been driving one for 15 years. It's a real workhorse, and its simplicity contributes to great reliability. Ford abandoned retail pretensions with it around 2000--it was a great fleet car.

But the rest of your post was spot on.

tranquilized · 07-06-2016, 08:19 AM

It's because they don't advertise them isn't it?

drz250 · 07-06-2016, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tranquilized

It's because they don't advertise them isn't it?

I think some of Ford's advertising has been great for the Falcon but I can't remember the last time I saw a Falcon ad on TV.

A long time ago but the best one was for the BA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeKFXvzPdeA

Surely people know they exist by now though right? Any Australian that hasn't heard of a Ford Falcon would have to be living under a rock.

tranquilized · 07-06-2016, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drz250

I think some of Ford's advertising has been great for the Falcon but I can't remember the last time I saw a Falcon ad on TV.

A long time ago but the best one was for the BA: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PeKFXvzPdeA

Surely people know they exist by now though right? Any Australian that hasn't heard of a Ford Falcon would have to be living under a rock.

I was joking... Has nothing to do with advertising, or unions

**Charliewool** · 07-06-2016, 08:21 AM

Greedy trade union movement was the root cause of the demise of our local auto industry.

Franco Cozzo · 07-06-2016, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Greedy trade union movement was the root cause of the demise of our local auto industry.

Or having neighbours who will work for a bowl of rice a month and federal governments who are a bunch of cucks to multinational companies.

ZZZZZZZZ!

minheim · 07-06-2016, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Greedy trade union movement was the root cause of the demise of our local auto industry.

The root cause is lack of economy of scale and our distance from markets; together with the fact that none of our manufactures were locally owned. Germany has higher wages than Australia and provides greater government assistance.

**Giant Cranium** · 07-06-2016, 08:32 AM

Can't remember I watched tv that had adds. The world has moved and unfortunately people buy cars on colour, reverse cameras and cuteness. They don't want a large car that they see as thirsty, old because they grew up in one or what gets them home drunk. They ain't cool to the general public and oldies want something easy to get into. That's what led my grandfather from 45 years of Falcons to a Hyundai

drz250 · 07-06-2016, 08:41 AM

Couldn't they just keep making them anyway? I understand they are not selling that many of them but surely they could downsize the operation and become a niche almost upmarket brand similar to Jaguar.

**Giant Cranium** · 07-06-2016, 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drz250

Couldn't they just keep making them anyway? I understand they are not selling that many of them but surely they could downsize the operation and become a niche almost upmarket brand similar to Jaguar.

Do you run a business or have ever been involved in one? That is a business plan to bankruptcy.

drz250 · 07-06-2016, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giant Cranium

Do you run a business or have ever been involved in one? That is a business plan to bankruptcy.

Are you really the Batman?

galaxy xr8 · 07-06-2016, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drz250

Are you really the Batman?

Are you really the Hulk ???
3 Falcons and a Territory ?.

fgpsi · 07-06-2016, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by galaxy xr8

Are you really the Hulk ???
3 Falcons and a Territory ?.

dont forget the C63 AMG

Spammy · 07-06-2016, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drz250

Couldn't they just keep making them anyway? I understand they are not selling that many of them but surely they could downsize the operation and become a niche almost upmarket brand similar to Jaguar.

Are you aware that JLR sold just under half a million cars last year? Whilst they appear niche they still have scale that makes sense (only just).

They also have upmarket appeal...ford falcons less so.

Spammy · 07-06-2016, 08:58 AM

Of the circa 1 million cars sold in Aust last year 99.5% wern't Falcons.

new2ford · 07-06-2016, 08:59 AM

Apart from the declining market for these two models in Australia, isn't the underlying reason "One Ford" - the standardised international models/design platforms dictated from USA? Which basically means Dumbed-down Ford, nothing exceptionally good here folks, move on now.

tranquilized · 07-06-2016, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by new2ford

Apart from the declining market for these two models in Australia, isn't the underlying reason "One Ford" - the standardised international models/design platforms dictated from USA? Which basically means Dumbed-down Ford, nothing exceptionally good here folks, move on now.

This is pretty much spot on. "One Ford" may have saved ford motor company but it killed Ford Australia which couldn't exist without ford motor company anyway...

Trump · 07-06-2016, 09:09 AM

The market spoke with its (and their financiers) wallets ages ago. When it came to Ford, they got sick of firstly, the "they all do that" response and the general poor attitude from the dealer network and secondly, a perceived lack of quality from the local product.

In Holden's case, they were their own worst enemy, yes they were selling a shedload of Commodore's but on razor thin margins a lot of the time. Not only that, the abomination known as the Cruze should not have been built here. It drained them of funds they didn't have. They are still moving 2500 units a month, but they are a far cry from the halcyon days of 6000+ units a month.

Toyota didn't have to close up manufacturing here, but with Ford and Holden gone, their component costs would have gone up and amortizing the costs across the range would have sliced their margins. So they decided to get out before the red ink started flowing.

kaniSS · 07-06-2016, 09:28 AM

Wages mate. Our wages are too high. Why would you build something for 60k + Super if you can build it for 10k?

XWGT · 07-06-2016, 09:39 AM

Actually the reason has nothing to do with Australia
Ford globally wanted to stream line its product lines. This allows for much more cost effective manufacturing and logistics, support and admin.
As the CEO said, Boeing dont make different 747s for different countries. Ford no longer makes local small market vehicles.
So they have created a line up of vehicles they think will appeal to 90% of their markets that they can manufacture cheaply and support locally.
Falcon could have doubled its sales and it still wouldnt have survived. Its a global decision not a local one.

Spammy · 07-06-2016, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XWGT

Actually the reason has nothing to do with Australia
Ford globally wanted to stream line its product lines. This allows for much more cost effective manufacturing and logistics, support and admin.
As the CEO said, Boeing dont make different 747s for different countries. Ford no longer makes local small market vehicles.
So they have created a line up of vehicles they think will appeal to 90% of their markets that they can manufacture cheaply and support locally.
Falcon could have doubled its sales and it still wouldnt have survived. Its a global decision not a local one.

But this ignores the fact that somebody in Australia (who probably isn't planning to buy a car anyway) thinks that Ford should still be making XD Falcons with bench seats and 3 on the tree gearshift.

Vesper Martini · 07-06-2016, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XWGT

Actually the reason has nothing to do with Australia
Ford globally wanted to stream line its product lines. This allows for much more cost effective manufacturing and logistics, support and admin.
As the CEO said, Boeing dont make different 747s for different countries. Ford no longer makes local small market vehicles.
So they have created a line up of vehicles they think will appeal to 90% of their markets that they can manufacture cheaply and support locally.
Falcon could have doubled its sales and it still wouldnt have survived. Its a global decision not a local one.

This sums it up for me, if somehow they managed to double or triple the Sales it wouldn't matter the end was already decided. the Government's knew this so were correct to pull out funding for a lost cause.

Cars are produced on Platforms these days, shared across models and even different makes. Ford & Holden Australia bucked the Global trend.

Toyota I'm not sure about - it has to be just about cost for them.

GT450 · 07-06-2016, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XWGT

Actually the reason has nothing to do with Australia
Ford globally wanted to stream line its product lines. This allows for much more cost effective manufacturing and logistics, support and admin.
As the CEO said, Boeing dont make different 747s for different countries. Ford no longer makes local small market vehicles.
So they have created a line up of vehicles they think will appeal to 90% of their markets that they can manufacture cheaply and support locally.
Falcon could have doubled its sales and it still wouldnt have survived. Its a global decision not a local one.

I couldn't have put it better myself XWGT ,we are part of the world we are not the world itself as some on here would believe. We are still going to be able to buy some great Fords so the sooner we stop asking why we cant have a Falcon and embrace the future the sooner we will stop getting these mind numbing questions. Ford in Australia has changed it has not died.
GT450

**FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0** · 07-06-2016, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drz250

I have been wondering why Ford is actually stopping the manufacture of Falcons and Territorys.

People say it's because not enough people are buying them but I see plenty of Falcons and Territorys on the road.
In fact I have 3 Falcons and a Territory. The Terry was bought new and the Falcons were near-new.

So I don't understand why Ford would stop building such a great car?

It doesn't make sense. What is your opinion?

Because Ford Aus lose money on manufacturing in this country.

Q.E.D.