Deciphering a Red-Light Offense

[Crazy Dazz]

Not really interested in any debate, just wondering if anybody knows how to decipher the wording of a Red-light Camera Offense (WA)?

What it says is as follows:
Phase: RED
Phase Duration: 1.26
Last Phase: AMBER
Last Phase Duration: 5.06
Elapsed Time: 0.00

Now to the best of my belief and recollection, I would never blatantly run a red, but it appears I have slipped up.

So I am assuming the "phase duration" means that it was Red for 1.26 seconds before I triggered it?

Rather Blatant if so...

[Captain Stubing]

In Qld the amber light duration is approximately 3 seconds. If WA lights stay amber for 5 secs before going red, then your assumption would be correct.

[uniacidz]

Notice depending on intersection, amber phase can be longer in NSW

Larger the intersection, longer the phase.





Sent via HTC Velocity + [HolicsROM v1.3] [SWEEP2WAKE]

[uniacidz]

Notice depending on intersection, amber phase can be longer in NSW

Larger the intersection, longer the phase.





Sent via HTC Velocity + [HolicsROM v1.3] [SWEEP2WAKE]

[xisled]

Red for 1.26 seconds previous colour was Amber and it was Amber for 5.06 seconds.

[Silver Ghia]

Here in Vic the amber phase duration is dependent also on the speed limit.

The higher the speed limit, the longer the amber phase.

But I think the OP wants to check if his interpretation as follows is correct, which I think it is.

So I am assuming the "phase duration" means that it was Red for 1.26 seconds before I triggered it?

The question I have though, is where on the intersection would the OP be when it is triggered? Ie. where he would be in the intersection when the 1.26 sec duration was taken?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Not really interested in any debate, just wondering if anybody knows how to decipher the wording of a Red-light Camera Offense (WA)?

What it says is as follows:
Phase: RED
Phase Duration: 1.26
Last Phase: AMBER
Last Phase Duration: 5.06
Elapsed Time: 0.00

Now to the best of my belief and recollection, I would never blatantly run a red, but it appears I have slipped up.

So I am assuming the "phase duration" means that it was Red for 1.26 seconds before I triggered it?

Rather Blatant if so...

They way I read that is your were pinged 1.26 secs after the red. which as you Say would be rather Blatant?

Were you turning, sitting in the intersection waiting for traffic for traffic to clear?
If so it depends if your rear wheels were in the intersection.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

They way I read that is your were pinged 1.26 secs after the red. which as you Say would be rather Blatant?

Were you turning, sitting in the intersection waiting for traffic for traffic to clear?
If so it depends if your rear wheels were in the intersection.

I agree with your interpretation, Bevsta. The only thing that doesn't make sense in that list of data is the "Elapsed Time: 0.00". What is that referring to? And why is it important to list?

Depending on what this referring to, it could change the interpretation significantly.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

I agree with your interpretation, Bevsta. The only thing that doesn't make sense in that list of data is the "Elapsed Time: 0.00". What is that referring to? And why is it important to list?

Depending on what this referring to, it could change the interpretation significantly.

The photo shows me just into the intersection. I assume elapsed time = 0.00 refers to the time between triggering the device and the photo, ie it was practically instantaneous.

I should also explain that its a turning arrow, I was turning right, and it also shows the speed of my vehicle as 38kph.

It's the intersection near home, I use it all the time, and its a PITA. Its the route towards the freeway, so there is always a massive line of cars. The Green is incredibly short and of course there is always some numbnuts who sleeps through most of the green.
I was kinda hoping I could argue that it was orange when I started turning.
BUT the numbers seem to show that I had 5 seconds of Orange, and that I am well into the Red.
Rather stupid on my part it seems.
(Although its only a rear photo, so it could be my wife driving)

[Mercury Bullet]

What's the fine worth?

Probably $2k in WA now, I got my rego papers last friday and nearly fell off my chair.

[blackf6]

Get the rubber gloves and lube out.

[arronm]

WA. Probably crush your car for that. 1.2 seconds into red. Hooning for sure.

[STINKY NINJA]

Gas chamber...

[5thFordWA]

If you want the full story, and if its likely to be a court case, why wouldn't you, then request to look at all the photos of the incident. I had to a few years back (in WA) when I was forced to drive off around a corner after I had stopped at a red light because a truck was sideways behind me trying to stop and he ended up still going through the intersection, so I was lucky not to get obliterated.
Got a red light infringement notice, went to the Wellington St police centre, and was given copies of 2 photos which ended up justifying my position and the charges were dropped. Might have cost me a few dollars to get them, but it was accepted practice to request the photos.
Anyway, at that time they used to take 2 photos, one exactly at the time the light went red, and one exactly one second later. This allowed them to calculate speed and to evaluate the relative movement of the vehicles. I don't know if they still do this these days, but it might clarify your situation, for better or worse!

Cheers.

[ozrunner]

I've always wondered about this issue and can anybody answer.

When and how are these cameras triggered, ie is it by a pressure detection at the white line ?

For instance, do they only trigger if you cross the white line when its already turned red meaning you are naughty and done ?

Would they trigger and also be done if you entered under amber but then it then turns red when you were basically through etc ?

[arronm]

It's a loop in the road after the white line.

[ozrunner]

Thanks arronm

So I take it that means you would actually have to go through a red to trigger the camera by this loop line ,which I assume must be very close to the white stop line.

[ljf12]

I don't know if it is still the same now but around 10 years ago my wife was fined, the light was amber when she entered the intersection, you did not have to run a red light to be charged.

[ljf12]

I have just done a bit of reading, all info states that the light has to be red when you cross the line. Either the rules have changed or my wife was telling porkies.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by ljf12

I have just done a bit of reading, all info states that the light has to be red when you cross the line. Either the rules have changed or my wife was telling porkies.

The actual fine is 'disobey traffic signal'. There is no differentiation between amber and red, since you're meant to stop on amber if safe to do so.

In the case of the OP, not a chance with that pic. Cop it and move on (or blame your wife and move on miserably for the rest of your life :p)

[NTF6]

Originally Posted by ljf12

I don't know if it is still the same now but around 10 years ago my wife was fined, the light was amber when she entered the intersection, you did not have to run a red light to be charged.

Still the same here in the NT, you can be fined for trying to beat a red light by entering an intersection on the amber!

[Magna]

Originally Posted by ljf12

I don't know if it is still the same now but around 10 years ago my wife was fined, the light was amber when she entered the intersection, you did not have to run a red light to be charged.

unbelievable but apparently true in Victoria as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vy8u8dzTzSg

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

I think you guys in the last few posts have not read the entire thread. Quick interpretation of the road rules is (and this is in my words, so no bush lawyers required):

You must stop on an amber unless unsafe to do so.

You must stop on a red.

(in the above cases, stop also means not enter the intersection beyond the relevant control line)

You can be fined for either or both of these, but you are unlikely to have a happy snap for the former as it is very difficult for a camera to interpret the circumstances. You are most likely to get pinged for this by a copper using his/her discretion (ie taking into account the circumstances)

The latter is most likely going to be a happy snap situation as a camera doesn't need to know the circumstances, it just needs to know you have passed the control line.

I am amazed at the number of people who still think that an amber means speed up to get through before the lights go red.

Hope that sums up the (off topic, really) discussion.

[Crazy Dazz]

[Mercury Bullet]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

image

Wanneroo Rd and Hepburn Ave...I hate that intersection. There's a fixed speed camera there too, I got done for 8km/h over there last year because I used to accelerate slightly on amber if I didn't feel I could stop.

So many idiot drivers on pole position fall asleep and miss the turning arrows too. It's a bloody long wait for the next greens. I totally understand Dazz's frustration with the intersection.

[EBSXR6]

Assuming there is not a problem with the camera. There is a camera near where I work in Clayton (Vic) and they have been there checking the camera 4 times in the last fortnight that I have seen.

[irvinnie]

In NSW it differentiates between red and amber lights as seperate offences. (Disobey red light and disobey Amber light) There is no defence to a red light but for disobeying an amber light there is a proviso written into the offence that you must be able to safely stop before the line to commit the offence of disobeying it. I can't imagine other states and territories also not having the same provisions otherwise how can you be expected to stop when the light turns Amber a metre before you enter the intersection?

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by irvinnie

In NSW it differentiates between red and amber lights as seperate offences. (Disobey red light and disobey Amber light) There is no defence to a red light but for disobeying an amber light there is a proviso written into the offence that you must be able to safely stop before the line to commit the offence of disobeying it. I can't imagine other states and territories also not having the same provisions otherwise how can you be expected to stop when the light turns Amber a metre before you enter the intersection?

Sounds correct, To my knowledge the camera will only get you on the red.

But a cop has the discretion to get you on an orange if the deem you could have stopped.

[STEALTHY]

Originally Posted by irvinnie

In NSW it differentiates between red and amber lights as seperate offences. (Disobey red light and disobey Amber light) There is no defence to a red light but for disobeying an amber light there is a proviso written into the offence that you must be able to safely stop before the line to commit the offence of disobeying it. I can't imagine other states and territories also not having the same provisions otherwise how can you be expected to stop when the light turns Amber a metre before you enter the intersection?

You wouldn't be able to stop in 1 metre at the speed limit. Thats the whole reason the camera's wont ping you for that. But an officer has discretion and can easily see if you've had ample time to stop and are just too lazy to follow the law.

[ozrunner]

All good info.

Crazy Dazz it would seem you goofed from that pic so blame the missus

In WA the amber to my knowledge doesn't mean you have to stop on it but be prepared to stop as the red is coming next.

Maybe the same in other States but most of our major intersections have a set of amber lights before the actual intersection that also start flashing when the amber light starts so they warn you that you need to prepare to stop and there is enough distance to do so.

My questions related to the scenarios where you have already past this warning set when they and the actual lights turn amber and in many cases unless you hit the picks hard you may stop well over the white line etc so its safer to carry on.

Hence my question whether this would activate the camera, which doesn't appear to be the case as you entered the intersection under an amber not a red and any time details shown on the infringement would obviously show this.