A query from Franco

[Franco Cozzo]

Good evening ladies, gents, he/him, they, her/she, spaceships, non binaries, LGBTIQIAXYZ+, unicorns and ASIO - I’d like to begin by acknowledging the Traditional Owners of the internet on which we meet today. I would also like to pay my respects to trolls past and present.

A friend of mine is moving to the NT and has asked me for some advice on buying a 4x4, the budget is $12,000 and we're going to go out car shopping soon (my favorite kind of shopping).

Now, I'm thinking there are a few forks here where they can go:

Real 4x4 (ie Landcruiser/Patrol)
Claytons 4x4 (Thailand special)

Then within those two forks we've got diesel and unleaded engines.

Given the budget is low, its going to put us square in 20+ year old vehicle territory for the real deal and probably around 10-15 on the Thailand specials.

Now that they're going to the NT the first thing that come to my mind was Landcruiser and Patrol - but the unleaded variations because of the budget, so 80 or 100/105 series with 1FZFE I6 or GQ/GU Patrol with TB45/TB48 I6

For this budget it seems we may be able to get an early 4L V6 Hilux of the 2005 onwards model and the rest are the diesel variants with many more kilometers for the spondoolies.

Method to my madness is that given the cars are so old, its probably better to cop the circa 100% increase in fuel costs but the benefit is that they're cheap to fix when they start acting up compared to CRD engines.

Also I figure that location means that parts availability and local repair knowledge on the Toyota/Nissan 4x4s is going to be better than anything else.

I'm not sure if they plan on going on mad desert expeditions but I'll find out, I imagine that fuel availability in whoop whoop means unleaded would be off the cards.

Recap of requirements:

4x4 non negotiable
$12,000 budget

Any automotive advice and general commentary on everything 4x4 would be appreciated.

Thanks

[arronm]

Did the 2500HP barra have a budget of 12K. If so thats the issue.

[Giant Cranium]

4.0l V6 hilux. Those things go for ever

[Olbucko]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Good evening ladies, gents, he/him, they, her/she, spaceships, non binaries, LGBTIQIAXYZ+, unicorns and ASIO - I’d like to begin by acknowledging the Traditional Owners of the internet on which we meet today. I would also like to pay my respects to trolls past and present.

You forgot to include LGBTIQIAXYZ-, somebody or something may be offended

[Franco Cozzo]

Also add one to the serious 4x4 list - Suzuki Jimny (2008-2012 fits in budget).

Yes it seems laughable but its actually a serious 4x4:

https://www.caradvice.com.au/15112/2...sierra-review/

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also add one to the serious 4x4 list - Suzuki Jimny (2008-2012 fits in budget).

Yes it seems laughable but its actually a serious 4x4:

https://www.caradvice.com.au/15112/2...sierra-review/

Even though you failed to use my correct pronoun (your highness) I'll still reply anyway since it's you.


Have to say my Jimny is fantastic off road, but that's where it ends.
Horrible at highway speeds, horrible on windy roads, horrible with cross winds, horrible at carrying heavy loads, but amazing offroad and for innercity parking.

It is a simple car and I hear the older ones are still pretty reliable.
The short wheel base helps in some of those tricky off road situations.
My mate in his highly modified 'Argentina special' dual cab is scratching his rock sliders, smashing his towbar and tool box into the ground while my 100% stock Jimny is going over the same spots on road tyres with no issues.
Well until you come to water. The lower overall height means it's more likely to drown compared to a taller 4x4.


At work we had Prados for most of the time and they were very reliable. We had diesel but I'm sure the petrol is just as good. I'd buy one with my own money.
I wouldn't buy a Pajero, Colorado, Rodeo, Hilux or Trailblazer which are the other 4x4's we have at work.
Hilux was reliable too but the Prado was nicer overall to drive.
We've had both the previous shape and the current shape Prado. The previous shape should be pretty much in that price range now.

[hayseed]

If you're in No real Hurry ?
Start getting around the Auctions...Or Let a few Dealers Who Wholesale a lot of their Trade ins what you Want. sit back & wait..

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by hayseed

If you're in No real Hurry ?
Start getting around the Auctions...Or Let a few Dealers Who Wholesale a lot of their Trade ins what you Want. sit back & wait..

There's a bit of a move on but they're oldskool, want to scope out some dealerships, maybe we can get to the auctions too.

[IanC]

Originally Posted by hayseed

If you're in No real Hurry ?
Start getting around the Auctions...Or Let a few Dealers Who Wholesale a lot of their Trade ins what you Want. sit back & wait..

The problem with the auctions is that you don't get a chance to have a test drive. Also dealers use the auctions to get rid of old crap that they don't want on their lot and which would give them a lot of warranty costs. Best bet is to buy private. That way you get a decent test drive and you get to meet the previous owner which can tell you a lot about how the vehicle has been treated.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by IanC

The problem with the auctions is that you don't get a chance to have a test drive. Also dealers use the auctions to get rid of old crap that they don't want on their lot and which would give them a lot of warranty costs. Best bet is to buy private. That way you get a decent test drive and you get to meet the previous owner which can tell you a lot about how the vehicle has been treated.

The only thing is though.
On a Tight Budget You'll get far more bang for your Buck at an auction. $12k at Auction will get you something that Retails for $16-17K or $14-15K at a Private sale....

I've bought a heap of stuff out of the Auctions over the last 30 odd years, & have had far more good luck than bad doing It..

But to each His own....

[XR Martin]

Pajero or Pathfinder not an option?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Pajero or Pathfinder not an option?

I've added Pajero and Challenger - not sold on Pathfinder or Navara, have worked on a few and they've got timing chain issues among other dramas.

Challenger seems very good value for money

[MDS69]

Prado or Pajero.

[fordomatic]

Pajero, for touring can't go past them and more reliable than a Toyota or Nissan (i've had them all). I had an NP Pajero 10 years ago and flogged the absolute crap out of it for two years straight and never had a single issue besides a few noisy pullys because i drowned it a few times. Was such an awesome 4x4 for what it was. They are always really cheap too, i'd stick with the petrol though.

[BENT_8]

Yep, i'd go the Pajero, my Nephew bought an 02 model recently, 1 owner 3.5l V6 with 210k's, drives like new, runs perfect, body is mint in the blue duco, he paid $5k and gets around the same mileage with the 5sp auto as I get with the SY.
To get the equivalent in a Prado would set you back twice as much and then some.
My Wife keeps pointing them out and suggesting we get one to replace the Terri when the time comes, a later model VRX with 3.8l would be a nice bit of kit.
I also like the look of the petrol 100 series but it'd need to be on gas.

I did a bit of research into the Paj and I believe anything pre 05 is non common rail if looking at the 3.2l diesel versions.

[Franco Cozzo]

Gonna try steer them away from diesel, the exception being the Challenger as it only comes in diesel - has 2.5L Triton CRD which isn't too bad aside from sounding like a truck.

We've moved Pajero (3.8L V6) and Challenger to the top of the list so far to inspect, they seem much cheaper and better value than Toyota and Nissan - there's a few at dealerships around the price we're looking, Challengers are PB model around 2011.

Of course there are a heap of GU Patrol about in the price range with the boat anchor 3L ZD30 diesel engine grenade

[Sprintey]

We've been fanging our beach surf trips in a 4.0L V6 120 Series Prado, that's a good car. Very reliable drivetrain.

If the Paj is half the price though...

Smaller stuff - Suzuki Grand Vitara with petrol 4 or V6? Dunno about maintenance costs but running will be less and they are supposed to be pretty capable.

Land Battleship: Can you pick up a nice 80 4.5L I6 for this? I've seen good clean auto 105s with the 4.5 petrol in the 12 range.

Offbeat: FJ73 mid wheelbase with FRP roof. Had one of those in petrol auto and it was great. 7-10k? And probably a future classic. Also smaller so more nimble in the scrub. Otherwise I'd go an FJ62 Sahara auto myself for the nostalgia. You even get an inclinometer on some of them

[Sprintey]

Oh yeah and don't forget to Barra swap every one of those recommendations

[Jack91]

Ive got a 1fzfe 80 series cruiser. The donk is bulletproof. They were built for a 1 million km life cycle before rebuild.and it shows. Theyre heavy on juice of course but the 1hz (base diesel) isnt much better and is deathly slow. For your budget youll get a decent 1fzfe (dont touch the earlier 3f) in an 80 or 100 series or a 1hz 80. A later 1hd might be in the budget but itd be rooted or need work and forget about the 1hdft.
1hzs need timing belts every 100k i think, and injector pump failure is common and very exxy.
1fz's buggest Achilles heel is their fuel usage. Theyre even easier to work on than the 1hz. Fuel filter is the only thing that can be a nightmare if the previous owner installed it like a bastard.
The 5 speed box is common to be lacking synchro assistance. Id say 90% of manual owners have to double clutch down if its got decent kms on it. However the autos are tough as nails and perform well.
My petrol is a 1997 and has no o2 sensors or cat converters (factory, passed rwc like that) so ive basically got an old school donk with really basic efi.

If reliability is the key, youre between the 1hz 80 series, 1fz 80 or 100 series or a 12ht 60 series but i doubt you are looking at them. The only good patrol to get is a td42 gu which is not in budget. The tb42 (or tb45, cant remember) is not quite as tough as the 1fz but uses the same amount of fuel. Autos in them are also pretty tough. A mate of mine pushes 40+ pounds through a td42 and manualised auto on 35s with no issues.
Anything other than a patrol or landcruiser and youre kidding yourself in every aspect. The only reason someone buys a prado or pajero is because they cant afford the real thing.
Haters gun hate.

[Jack91]

In terms of offroad (im bored and on holidays and sleeping pattern is rooted), lower spec 80s were still part time 4x4, which is becoming a common swap from us gxl or higher spec owners in pursuit of better economy. However all the way up to the ti gu patrols are part time 4x4. Patrol rear lsds also have a habit of actually working. 80 series rear lsds are crap. 80 series front diffs are weaker than the gu aswell, but we are talking really really serious offroad and 37 inch plus tyres for that to come into play.

[Crazy Dazz]

Forget anything with a Toyota badge on it.
Toyotas dominate this market, and for good reason. But that also means they are damn expensive to begin with and hold their value exceptionally well.
$12k is unfortunately bargain-basement in the large 4x4 department, which means any Toyota will be a wreck for that money.

Nissan Patrols, either GQ or GU, are superb, IF you can get the old skool 4.2l diesel or TD. Don't get sucked into the "diesels are expensive to fix" myth. These engines are literally cast iron and damn near indestructible. Ours is now over 400kk and still tonking along. They are literally a truck/bus engine, and built to last.
Try to avoid the 3.0L 4 cylinder EFI diesels. They weren't nicknamed "Grenade Motors"for nothing. (They ironed out many of the bugs over the years, but you're more likely to be looking at older ones.)
Unfortunately the big 6's are getting quite rare.

Personally, I would never buy a petrol in that age bracket. The engines just don't have the longevity of their diesel cousins, and their economy is woeful.
Yes, diesel versions are more expensive. There's a reason for that.
If all you care about is price, buy a Great Wally.

Realistically, in your price range, you are probably better off looking at a Ute.
One of the few smart things Holden ever did was selling rebadged Isuzus. Good, solid, commercial vehicles, with very robust diesels.
The pick of the bunch is the Isuzu J engine, and in particular the 4JB1. The richest bloke I know still drives a Rodeo, precisely for this engine. It also opens up the possibility of a Jackeroo if that appeals.
(Last I heard they are still making this engine in China.)
Depending on whether they want a dualie or single, etc, $12k will get a 6~7yr old Colorado, or if you can't stand the badge just look for a D-Max.
NB: The D-Max and the Rodeo/Colorado from around 2003 onwards, are Thai specials. You need to go back to the TF series for a Japanese model.

[davenl5l]

Go the toyota 105 petrol 10k will get a good one quite often with extras . Done 70,000klm's in mine was showing 327k when i got it ,unleaded is avail most places and quite often you can get it when the diesel has run out

[roKWiz]

Build the GMC with the 6BT and sell it to him, sounds like he might be carrying a lot of stuff.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Build the GMC with the 6BT and sell it to him, sounds like he might be carrying a lot of stuff.

GMC Sierra was sold in 2014 unfortunately, it's the only car Ive regretted selling

[Franco Cozzo]

Also I don't want to direct them to go too old, I'd prefer to keep it around early 00s at the oldest and upwards - no bloody 2H diesel 60 series Land Cruiser that won't get out of the driveway with an incline

There's a nice FZJ105R GXL Cruiser on the market with 1FZFE close to budget but it's got mid 250,000km on the clock.

A couple of GU Patrols with TB45 I6 too.

All the patrols and cruisers in budget appear to be private sale, were going to do dealerships first, then I'll talk to them see if they're keen on a few house calls.

Patrol doesn't seem to be as highly priced as the Toyota stuff.

[Jack91]

Put a couple of litres of salt water in the tank of a diesel and a petrol and then tell me how tough diesels are. Ive got both and the diesel 'image' of reliability is the biggest lie out there.

[ozpacman]

Originally Posted by Jack91

Put a couple of litres of salt water in the tank of a diesel and a petrol and then tell me how tough diesels are. Ive got both and the diesel 'image' of reliability is the biggest lie out there.

Congratulations Jack 91! This may well be the the most ridiculous post on this thread so far.

Last time I checked, all my diesels had fuel filters. Cut the handle half-way through on your axe and you'd probably effect its reliability as well. The question would be, just like pouring some salt water into your fuel system, why would you do that?

Lay it on me mate, I've got broad shoulders!

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Congratulations Jack 91! This may well be the the most ridiculous post on this thread so far.

Surely it's the first reply, what Barra?

[Cav]

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/for...e/under-15000/


Yeah OK it's AWD rather than 4x4; and it is diesel


The Territory is the best kept secret in Australia.

[Jack91]

Originally Posted by ozpacman

Congratulations Jack 91! This may well be the the most ridiculous post on this thread so far.

Last time I checked, all my diesels had fuel filters. Cut the handle half-way through on your axe and you'd probably effect its reliability as well. The question would be, just like pouring some salt water into your fuel system, why would you do that?

Lay it on me mate, I've got broad shoulders!

Yeah nice. Think you missed the point there champ. I've never heard of bad 91 from servos blowing engines. Even dealers are flogging extra filters because the smallest bit of crap and its game over. I have one in my ranger and run fuel doctor aswell when in the outback with it, and youll find a LOT of people do the same with the newer diesels.
Relativity? Well, i use my 4wds, and its not uncommon for my filler neck to be submerged in muddy water. I have extended breathers but many dont.
Oh wise man, tell me what makes diesel superior in terms of reliability? Cos the only people i know swapping from petrol to diesel are in td42s, 12hts or 6bts. Ls and barra though...