Are Hybrids the new BMW?

[Crazy Dazz]

As in "Bought Mostly by Bankers"?

Had someone in our FB group ask people to "recommend a Hybrid". No other criteria, just "hybrid".
When I asked why that was their only criteria, they replied "its better for the environment". They weren't impressed when I pointed out that NOT buying a new car was better for the environment.

And of course we had to have some smug git recommend their $100k+ Lexus.
(I spent a good while searching fb for the "punch me in the face" button.)

As a technological exercise, hybrids are great. But how do you explain to these boobs that at best, they are only as green as their final fuel economy. A modest car with a small economical engine that uses 5l/100 is still better than a hybrid that uses 6.
And then you have to factor in the extra pollution caused mining, refining, and manufacturing the batteries and electrical components.

And if you really want to be clean'n'green, run your car on ethanol or LPG.

[oldel]

Hybrids are bought by econobox toyota buyers that care about nothing except for reliable cheap transport.

Don't be that guy that tells people the car they want is wrong for *reasons* in real life. I say stuff here but in real life I say nothing. We all know small SUVs (small hatchbacks with a huge price upgrade only for a liftkit), people that buy cars based on the LCD and appleplay/streaming services and dual cab thai trucks are the "new BMW".

In other words, no one cares about a car anymore, fun police came out and the result is a lounge on wheels that is cheap to run (hybrid) or something that makes them look interesting, outdoorsy and tough, ie aspirational in the lifestyle way (own a thai truck because at any second I could go bush and camping - but never do) is the only criteria now.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by oldel

Hybrids are bought by econobox toyota buyers that care about nothing except for reliable cheap transport.

Don't be that guy that tells people the car they want is wrong for *reasons* in real life. I say stuff here but in real life I say nothing. We all know small SUVs (small hatchbacks with a huge price upgrade only for a liftkit), people that buy cars based on the LCD and appleplay/streaming services and dual cab thai trucks are the "new BMW".

In other words, no one cares about a car anymore, fun police came out and the result is a lounge on wheels that is cheap to run (hybrid) or something that makes them look interesting, outdoorsy and tough, ie aspirational in the lifestyle way (own a thai truck because at any second I could go bush and camping - but never do) is the only criteria now.

As much as I agree with most of what you said, the same can be said about the try hards who bought all their XR6T, GT, SS, GTS, and any other performance car that never went near a track or the equivalent. All these high horsepower cars (ICE and EV) are pointless when they're rarely (if ever) used in the way they were intended for.

We were one of those people who bought a soft roading SUV not because we would use it for soft roading but because it made loading and unloading of the kids and their paraphernalia a lot easier for the missus and i.

I wouldn't say no to a decent PHEV hybrid, unfortunately said decent ones are aspirational at best. I could deal with a Panamera 4S hybrid each day

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

As in "Bought Mostly by Bankers"?

Had someone in our FB group ask people to "recommend a Hybrid". No other criteria, just "hybrid".
When I asked why that was their only criteria, they replied "its better for the environment". They weren't impressed when I pointed out that NOT buying a new car was better for the environment.

And of course we had to have some smug git recommend their $100k+ Lexus.
(I spent a good while searching fb for the "punch me in the face" button.)

As a technological exercise, hybrids are great. But how do you explain to these boobs that at best, they are only as green as their final fuel economy. A modest car with a small economical engine that uses 5l/100 is still better than a hybrid that uses 6.
And then you have to factor in the extra pollution caused mining, refining, and manufacturing the batteries and electrical components.

And if you really want to be clean'n'green, run your car on ethanol or LPG.

I do agree with the LPG statement, a technology never developed properly with the best systems being aftermarket rather than factory developed.

I know the BMW comment wasn't specific to BMW.
but an interesting comparison to show how a diesel can be done properly
I have 2 large diesel SUVs , Territory Co2 usage is 236 grams/km compared to the X5s 164.0 grams/km.

an FGX falcon uses 225 grams/km

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

I do agree with the LPG statement, a technology never developed properly with the best systems being aftermarket rather than factory developed.

I know the BMW comment wasn't specific to BMW.
but an interesting comparison to show how a diesel can be done properly
I have 2 large diesel SUVs , Territory Co2 usage is 236 grams/km compared to the X5s 164.0 grams/km.

an FGX falcon uses 225 grams/km

I loved my EcoLPI car. That was epic. Shame it came so late in the piece. If they did a FGX G6E EcoLPI, I'd have bought one in a heartbeat.

Your maths on CO2/km is interesting. Running on pure coal generated power, our cars use about 150 grams/km. Realistically, its closer to under 100 grams/km.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by kypez

I loved my EcoLPI car. That was epic. Shame it came so late in the piece. If they did a FGX G6E EcoLPI, I'd have bought one in a heartbeat.

Your maths on CO2/km is interesting. Running on pure coal generated power, our cars use about 150 grams/km. Realistically, its closer to under 100 grams/km.

didn't know that, so thought id check if there were any ice cars running 100grams/100 to see if Daz's argument about getting a small car running 5L/100 stacks up

a Fiesta ST only manages 144

https://www.caradvice.com.au/compare...0-ford-fiesta/

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

didn't know that, so thought id check if there were any ice cars running 100grams/100 to see if Daz's argument about getting a small car running 5L/100 stacks up

a Fiesta ST only manages 144

https://www.caradvice.com.au/compare...0-ford-fiesta/

The easiest way to get an engine to emit less emissions is to use less fuel. The other, more complicated method is what manufacturers are doing these days with Direct Injection, Turbos, etc. I think we're reaching the limits of cost effective efficiency in the combustion engine world, there is only so much we can push the boundaries of Physics/Chemistry without some level of electrification.

I believe the diesel Fiesta went below 100grams/km but that wasn't offered here locally (or it was for a short while and was discontinued).

[kypez]

The fact is that these people want to buy new cars. If we all just kept what we had, the economy wouldn't really move forward. So its a choice that if you want to buy something new, why not make it something that is eco-friendlier.

A straight out combustion engine, Hybrid or EV will need mining, etc. Difference with the latter two is the emissions are reduced across the lifespan of the cars. Those will then become available in the secondhand market for others to enjoy the benefits (and no, just like an ICE doesn't died as soon as its out of warranty, batteries don't died the day warranty runs out for a Hybrid/EV). People are getting hundreds of thousands of kilometers on batteries. More than many do with ICE as well.

Ask the Taxi industry what they think of Hybrids. They LOVE them. They use a lot less than our LPG Falcons would. Thats saying something.