'Post Pandemic' - On the roads

[Franco Cozzo]

Thought this could be an interesting thing to talk about, not sure if this is isolated to just Melbourne but anyone else noticed how nuts people are behind the wheel these days? Seems to have kicked off 'post pandemic' with a **** tonne of road rage and various accidents happening on an increased scale.

I don't think I've ever seen the attitudes on the road this bad in my 12 years on the road, I'm not exactly known for abiding by all the road rules but I don't bring the intimidation or nasty attitude to other commuters as I go about my commute and I generally be courteous.

Tends to be by people in high vis clothing tailgating and driving like knobs, and I suspect a bit of the 'concreters breakfast' of 2x iced coffees and the glass BBQ, but they're not the only culprits.

I'm a regular on Sydney Rd, Campbellfield these days and some of the stuff you see is wild and its not just the typical northern suburbs drivers.

Driving in ‘angry goggles’

Researchers say reduced public transport use and greater car use may be causing drivers to feel traffic is worse and become more frustrated. Cost-of-living pressures may be harming mental health, remote workers are more glued to their phones and working while driving, or there may simply be more burnout.

Transport Accident Commission chief executive Tracey Slatter is aware community members and authorities are reporting an increase in poor driving, “and while we haven’t seen any empirical evidence of this, we are very concerned at the tragic increase in road deaths this year”.

Director of the Australian Association of Psychologists Inc, Carly Dober, said as well as stress, anxiety or overwhelm possibly affecting people’s driving, many are still coming to terms with the pandemic and feeling “angrier”, which could be playing into it.

“Also, it could be modelled behaviour. There are reports of more aggressive driving and its one of those things that if we start noticing it, we can kind of conform; not necessarily endorsing it but starting to mirror what broader community members are doing,” she said.

The mood outside the car impacts how people perform in it, says Dr Amanda Stephens, senior research fellow at the Monash University Accident Research Centre. Some drivers depersonalise other people in cars, she says.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/v...19-p5edje.html

Have we got any people here who tend to walk or cycle? Have you noticed increased aggression from people on the roads directed towards you or is this isolated to Melbourne?

[Toiler]

I believe society as a whole is tending to reduced empathy levels and this reflects badly in driving - this trend (if true) is not going to be good for our society as a whole either.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Toiler

I believe society as a whole is tending to reduced empathy levels and this reflects badly in driving - this trend (if true) is not going to be good for our society as a whole either.

I reckon you're on the money, people are ruthless now,

The effect on the roads is probably a symptom of something deeper in society, its just playing out behind the wheel.

[Citroënbender]

My take on it, is fear lies at the root. Australians are big on embracing rather shapeless fears.

Push people to really articulate what they’re afraid of, and watch them lash out.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

The effect on the roads is probably a symptom of something deeper in society, its just playing out behind the wheel.

my wife sees it in the schools too now. Schoolkids have always been little ****s, but the level of disrespect, selfishness, and the ability to sit down and shut the **** up, has reached a new level post-covid :(

[Sprintey]

I can imagine. Was talking to a recent ex-teacher in a surf carpark not long into covid - for him it was the last straw, he was within 5yrs of retirement, could afford to go, he had seen it all in the classroom, and it was his moment to just go 'yep, that's me done'. He was now in a better place I reckon heaps of people who could said "that's enough," during or after the pandemic so it becomes that marker between one age and another.

Just out of interest, heres a doco "the age of easy money" which describes the era we've just left:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjwFWz5AqVw

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by simon varley

my wife sees it in the schools too now. Schoolkids have always been little ****s, but the level of disrespect, selfishness, and the ability to sit down and shut the **** up, has reached a new level post-covid :(

There’s a reason why there are Facebook groups dedicated to teachers discussing how to leave teaching and what similar jobs they can easily transition into. There’s a reason why uni students are teaching classes alone.
Teaching has always had bad parts, but it also had some pretty sweet benefits to help make people put up with the bad parts of the job.
Now school executives expect more and more work from teachers but give them no extra time to do the work, some people making the decisions have no educational experience but have business management experience so for them the business side is important and the education side is second, students are horrible, the parents are worse and the pay hasn’t kept with inflation.
I’ve had a lot of connections to the education industry and I can say I hear about so many people leaving it wanting to leave.


On the topic of roads and driving, I’ve noticed there’s so many people who have to get around all traffic then as soon as they push to the front they drive below the limit.
I use to see this occasionally but now I see it several times a week. Sometimes several times a day. Self-centred driving is just the norm now.

[kevino]

Good point on the empathy

Here on the Gc many of our crashes are juveniles in stolen cars or drug affected people

I try to imagine that each person that chops me in traffic is on ice/ meth and just let it go

When I m driving a higher vehicle I can virtually predict the choppers and changers

I think internet use on phones is seriously changing our personalities

Lol including mine

[Sprintey]

I notice the roads around G-Town in non peak hours are really nice with lower traffic volumes in non-peak hours compared to the crazy squish that was 2017,18,19. Quite enjoy that.

You see erratic driving often, I can't differentiate between before pandemic and post pandemic for that. Young one is in pre-peak tradey hour and he reckon's it's busy, with the roadworks on the town's southern side being most frustration.

Empathy: you are spot on with this, it has reduced measurably. This has happened within myself as well, as a consequence of how the pandemic played out for vulnerable people.

I also realised with the disobedience shown in the pandemic, rules were optional. Having trouble with this one as I always respected them, but this might explain some of the driving behaviour shown. Eg

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-06-...oyed/101196302

See? No one gives a sht. If I give the Sprint an extra squirt on a quiet country road, who cares?

People are getting squeezed and angry - seen it before in WA minerals boom 1 - everyone was under the pump so much that other tradies would want to go you for the right to be next at the fuel bowser. 5 cars going through on the red arrow. This current squeeze, especially in Eastern Australia, is greater than I've ever seen: 500,000+ extra people pa to compete for and suppress wages, to buy housing; just as locals - particularly young locals - are impoverished by interest rates, energy costs, rent costs and a recovery in house prices to insane levels relative to income. It's surprising the young Aussies (any racial group) are not banding together and (edit: don't want to incite anything...), let alone doing some risky driving. Rising homelessness among Australians, wtf: this should never happen in this country. But I suspect we're not "in this country," anymore - it's something else now.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Tends to be by people in high vis clothing tailgating and driving like knobs, and I suspect a bit of the 'concreters breakfast' of 2x iced coffees and the glass BBQ, but they're not the only culprits.

Have observed same. Ute drivers always seem so impatient, angry, and looking for confrontation.

[Jack91]

I think everyones just really angry in general.
We all know the reasons. Started in late 2019.
And it'll get worse.
And so it should.
I just hope it becomes directed at the right people and not amongst society.
But alas, people are dumb.

[Rallye Sport]

We notice it as soon as get into town from rural/ country trips. Theres even a landmark we comment on as we pass "Get ready for the knobs"

I don't know if its happening more but the vehicles doing it have changed. Its usually 4wd's now, jacked up, blow off valve and silver insulation half way up the windsceen. Drivers are wearing a Tapout T-shirt and apparently pretty dangerous after spending a week in Thailand and watching some underground kickboxing matches.

I see it in the Mrs Corolla a fair bit, not so much my Falcon or classics.
Maybe its our different driving styles. Enough said

[BENT_8]

Ive certainly noticed it but not sure it stems from post pandemic as such but more in line with interest rate rises/cost of living increases over the past 12-18 months, people just arent happy being unable to enjoy life as they had in the past.

Another thing I notice is the correlation betwwen the price of fuel and driving speeds, when ULP hits $2/l people slow down to 10k under and when youre driving to a schedule it pushes stress levels even higher.
I was asked to return to coach driving 3 weeks ago from a 5 week abscence due to the massive influx of work and even in that brief 5 week period it seems as though things are worse, not sure if thats a reflection of those around me, my work load or a bit of both.

[bangm001]

We were made to drive into work (Health care professional) during the pandemic. They even gave us free city car parking! During this time the roads were relatively quiet here in Adelaide, and driving into the city a breeze. Now is a different story.

About 2 years ago i opted to ride my bike into work as the car commute was taking me approx 45 minutes to drive 6-7kms. I'm now riding my bike daily and enjoy it alot. I don't have to ride on any roads (a few back streets until I get onto a dedicated bike trail into the city here in Adelaide). I havn't looked back. I can get in and out of work in about 13-15minutes door to door from my work now! The GT and Typhoon are now garage queens.

[blueoval]

I think its a combination of a lot of things. The fact that its post pandemic is just a marker we can probably agree on collectively to pin point in time where things started to go down hill.

I put it down to the following issues in no particular order:
- Interest rates increasing putting mortgage stress on people
- Work loads have increased with little to nothing in return for the extra efforts
- Lack of housing availability to buy or rent
- Living arrangements due to lack of housing.
- Lifestyles that were more abundant now are no longer affordable in current financial climate
- Health issues & deaths of individuals/family members have risen
- Pressure to make sure a roof if kept over ones heads is higher than ever before
- Seeing high profile people living a certain life not seeming to struggle while you are trying to make ends meet
- Social Media
- Trying to maintain a lifestyle to 'keep up' with other friends
- Really disliking your job
- Having to deal with delusional people on the roads while you are struggling to get to work
- Disappointment with inept governments not assisting those in actual need
- Apathy for fellow man
- Family break downs (i.e. Divorce/separation)

Now I know a lot of these can be argued for or against. But I have noticed there is a dark attitude creeping in based on the people around me and what I have read online. Not all of it is like this, but I have noticed a trend of it is more apparent than pre-pandemic.

[fordomatic]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I think its a combination of a lot of things. The fact that its post pandemic is just a marker we can probably agree on collectively to pin point in time where things started to go down hill.

I put it down to the following issues in no particular order:
- Interest rates increasing putting mortgage stress on people
- Work loads have increased with little to nothing in return for the extra efforts
- Lack of housing availability to buy or rent
- Living arrangements due to lack of housing.
- Lifestyles that were more abundant now are no longer affordable in current financial climate
- Health issues & deaths of individuals/family members have risen
- Pressure to make sure a roof if kept over ones heads is higher than ever before
- Seeing high profile people living a certain life not seeming to struggle while you are trying to make ends meet
- Social Media
- Trying to maintain a lifestyle to 'keep up' with other friends
- Really disliking your job
- Having to deal with delusional people on the roads while you are struggling to get to work
- Disappointment with inept governments not assisting those in actual need
- Apathy for fellow man
- Family break downs (i.e. Divorce/separation)

Now I know a lot of these can be argued for or against. But I have noticed there is a dark attitude creeping in based on the people around me and what I have read online. Not all of it is like this, but I have noticed a trend of it is more apparent than pre-pandemic.

Best post in this thread and best post i've read in a while, exactly my thoughts, you put it into words perfectly.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Best post in this thread and best post i've read in a while, exactly my thoughts, you put it into words perfectly.

Dunno
Most shirty drivers drive Thailand specials / ute men

Funny the drivers of Ram Silverado seem ok

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by fordomatic

Best post in this thread and best post i've read in a while, exactly my thoughts, you put it into words perfectly.

Was just about to post the same.

A very observant post and in general shows how screwed human society is. But isn't it great to be alive!?

Originally Posted by blueoval

I think its a combination of a lot of things. The fact that its post pandemic is just a marker we can probably agree on collectively to pin point in time where things started to go down hill.

I put it down to the following issues in no particular order:
- Interest rates increasing putting mortgage stress on people
- Work loads have increased with little to nothing in return for the extra efforts
- Lack of housing availability to buy or rent
- Living arrangements due to lack of housing.
- Lifestyles that were more abundant now are no longer affordable in current financial climate
- Health issues & deaths of individuals/family members have risen
- Pressure to make sure a roof if kept over ones heads is higher than ever before
- Seeing high profile people living a certain life not seeming to struggle while you are trying to make ends meet
- Social Media
- Trying to maintain a lifestyle to 'keep up' with other friends
- Really disliking your job
- Having to deal with delusional people on the roads while you are struggling to get to work
- Disappointment with inept governments not assisting those in actual need
- Apathy for fellow man
- Family break downs (i.e. Divorce/separation)

Now I know a lot of these can be argued for or against. But I have noticed there is a dark attitude creeping in based on the people around me and what I have read online. Not all of it is like this, but I have noticed a trend of it is more apparent than pre-pandemic.

[Sprintey]

Actually one time we really did notice poor driving behaviour was most recent run back to Vic from the West, especially on the Western Hwy after dark - all of a sudden, no one knew how to use high beams properly! We were irradiated and some of the fools kept them on even after we had raised our beams (initally a flash) to tell them to stop. Never seen it as bad as that particular run. I'm getting nuclear spotties for next time.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I think its a combination of a lot of things. The fact that its post pandemic is just a marker we can probably agree on collectively to pin point in time where things started to go down hill.

I put it down to the following issues in no particular order:
- Interest rates increasing putting mortgage stress on people
- Work loads have increased with little to nothing in return for the extra efforts
- Lack of housing availability to buy or rent
- Living arrangements due to lack of housing.
- Lifestyles that were more abundant now are no longer affordable in current financial climate
- Health issues & deaths of individuals/family members have risen
- Pressure to make sure a roof if kept over ones heads is higher than ever before
- Seeing high profile people living a certain life not seeming to struggle while you are trying to make ends meet
- Social Media
- Trying to maintain a lifestyle to 'keep up' with other friends
- Really disliking your job
- Having to deal with delusional people on the roads while you are struggling to get to work
- Disappointment with inept governments not assisting those in actual need
- Apathy for fellow man
- Family break downs (i.e. Divorce/separation)

Now I know a lot of these can be argued for or against. But I have noticed there is a dark attitude creeping in based on the people around me and what I have read online. Not all of it is like this, but I have noticed a trend of it is more apparent than pre-pandemic.

This is a great post - thanks,

Correct in that I'm using 'pandemic' as a point in time to pick where there was a shift in attitudes, I'm not pointing the finger at how it was handled but more about the big shift thats happened with things going down hill in attitudes/experiences/living standards.

Not sure the last time anyone was in Melbourne CBD but its gone to ruin as well, I've been a regular in the seedy parts with all the violence over the years and it hasn't phased me but just walking around the normal parts during the day like Elizabeth/Flinders intersection is basically a no-go zone, you've got bulk junkies and hobos controlling the area.

Its an extension of what you're talking about, it hasn't recovered to what it was prior to the pandemic.

[Sprintey]

Yes, knowing peeps high up in the CBD/office space/hotels/accom area things are not quite the same in tenancy as well. Maybe this contributes?

[T3rminator]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Not sure the last time anyone was in Melbourne CBD but its gone to ruin as well, I've been a regular in the seedy parts with all the violence over the years and it hasn't phased me but just walking around the normal parts during the day like Elizabeth/Flinders intersection is basically a no-go zone, you've got bulk junkies and hobos controlling the area.

.

Was taking a stroll in the heart of the cbd about 3 Sundays ago. I think they have moved on, it was pretty clean. Even the notorious spot next to Flinders station entrance was clear. Did however run into 10,000+ protesters , maybe they scared them off for the day!

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I think its a combination of a lot of things. The fact that its post pandemic is just a marker we can probably agree on collectively to pin point in time where things started to go down hill.

I put it down to the following issues in no particular order:
- Interest rates increasing putting mortgage stress on people
- Work loads have increased with little to nothing in return for the extra efforts
- Lack of housing availability to buy or rent
- Living arrangements due to lack of housing.
- Lifestyles that were more abundant now are no longer affordable in current financial climate
- Health issues & deaths of individuals/family members have risen
- Pressure to make sure a roof if kept over ones heads is higher than ever before
- Seeing high profile people living a certain life not seeming to struggle while you are trying to make ends meet
- Social Media
- Trying to maintain a lifestyle to 'keep up' with other friends
- Really disliking your job
- Having to deal with delusional people on the roads while you are struggling to get to work
- Disappointment with inept governments not assisting those in actual need
- Apathy for fellow man
- Family break downs (i.e. Divorce/separation)

Now I know a lot of these can be argued for or against. But I have noticed there is a dark attitude creeping in based on the people around me and what I have read online. Not all of it is like this, but I have noticed a trend of it is more apparent than pre-pandemic.

Great post and when you look at many of those points, they can pretty much all be attributed to financial stress with the biggest increase to households being the price of the roof over their heads, be it either mortgage or rent, both are the result of interest rate rises.

Rates go up, mortgage/rent goes up, people have to work harder to service it whilst trying to retain the 'keeping up' lifestyle they've had for too long.
So they work harder and become slaves to the job, the job becomes the enemy, they become run down from the stress and their health suffers, they hardly see the family and when they do its all negativity and worry and eventually it leads to relationship breakdowns.

We've had it too good for too long, some people have never lived through tough times and dont know how to or refuse to adapt.

[portokatsiki]

People have become more selfish and don't care about doing the right thing on the road and consider others. Workplaces are becoming like the roads more and more. It's a product the government's are pushing for.

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

We've had it too good for too long, some people have never lived through tough times and dont know how to or refuse to adapt.

The thing is though, Australia with it’s massive mineral wealth, it’s ability to be totally self-sufficient and it’s relatively small population shouldn’t be in this position to begin with…
Governments (of both persuasions) have completely sold us down the sh itter!..
The old “fair go” mentality that Australia was built on, has long disappeared..
The annihilation of small businesses with excessive taxes/mandates/red tape’s whilst kowtowing to foreign owned multinationals that pay minimal tax and take all profits offshore… And like the sheep we are, we’ve naively let it happen!
We “should’ve” been the envy of the world!
It’s no bloody wonder that Australian society has evolved into a dog eat dog mentality…
And God help the generations that follow us!

[Citroënbender]

Even if it began at a glacial pace, this all progressed by majority vote; if a majority of people were too daft/lazy/greedy then they have got what - ultimately - they voted for. Experiencing hardship should not be a prerequisite for developing insight or empathy.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Even if it began at a glacial pace, this all progressed by majority vote; if a majority of people were too daft/lazy/greedy then they have got what - ultimately - they voted for. Experiencing hardship should not be a prerequisite for developing insight or empathy.

It stems from a disinterest in politics, we're culturally similar to Russians in that we don't want to have anything to do with it, so our politics is always 'someone else's problem' and that's why we get the results we have now as there's a mentality that people don't want to know, talk about or get involved.

If anyone here reads books - this was published in 1964:

https://www.booktopia.com.au/the-luc...143202813.html

Horne's intent in writing the book was to portray Australia's climb to power and wealth based almost entirely on luck rather than the strength of its political or economic system, which Horne believed was "second rate". In addition to political and economic weaknesses, he also lamented on the lack of innovation and ambition, as well as a philistinism in the absence of art, among the Australian population, viewed by Horne as being complacent and indifferent to intellectual matters.

Big demographic shift happening in Melbourne and Sydney over the past 20 years too,

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

if a majority of people were too daft/lazy/greedy then they have got what - ultimately - they voted for.

this is why I continue to say that the universal franchise is bs. as long as the populist parties pander to the lowest common denominator, all we will ever get is short-termism, and self-interest. having the power to vote is a responsibility not a right, and should have more of an entry ticket than just having survived for 18 years

and before anyone ask - no, I don't have an answer. just a series of questions

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

The thing is though, Australia with it’s massive mineral wealth, it’s ability to be totally self-sufficient and it’s relatively small population shouldn’t be in this position to begin with…
Governments (of both persuasions) have completely sold us down the sh itter!..
The old “fair go” mentality that Australia was built on, has long disappeared..
The annihilation of small businesses with excessive taxes/mandates/red tape’s whilst kowtowing to foreign owned multinationals that pay minimal tax and take all profits offshore… And like the sheep we are, we’ve naively let it happen!
We “should’ve” been the envy of the world!
It’s no bloody wonder that Australian society has evolved into a dog eat dog mentality…
And God help the generations that follow us!

Spot on Charlie, I'm old enough (just) to have been a little kid running around in the country QLD of my ancestors that was this 'fair go' society complete with the cane trains still running down the main street of Nambour. My grandfather passed away after going down to help the '74 Brisbane flood victims, put total strangers ahead of himself and worked so hard (cane farmer too, so you know he could work hard) to the extent his heart went. That was what people did. The landscape was full of great aunties, uncles, many cousins distantly related too, everyone knew each other and would lend a hand. What a magnificent country that was to come to as my mother brought us kids home from overseas where dad was from. We had 8 or 9 auto manufacturers at that time too! If you look at wealth/resources per capita back in 1971 it was Australia, Canada - then daylight. We had a truly diversified economy too then, strong agriculture, strong mining, strong industry and tertiary, lessened but still strong on the financial services. Now we are about 89th on the economic diversity index, slightly behind Uganda (lol). If a political party came along that restored that caring and strong Australia, I'd vote for it.

[Sprintey]

And before going back to the driving, here's a good wrap of the situation many Australians are facing, perhaps contributing to the darkness being noticed. Mark Bouris is the well known home loan guru, so he would have an opinion on the current state of things that would be close to the coal face:

https://www.news.com.au/finance/econ...7c3bdce1723cef

Never seen anything like it either. I worry for our young ones, trying to set up home ownership in such an environment.