Holden is offering your money back if you don't like its new Epica

[csv8]

Holden is offering your money back if you don't like its new Epica mid-sized car, the cheapest six-cylinder car on the market. By TOBY HAGON.



Holden is offering a radical money-back guarantee - believed to be an Australian first - on its new mid-sized car, the Epica.

During 2007, private buyers who purchase the Korean-made replacement for the Vectra will be able to hand it back within 30 days and fewer than 1500 kilometres on the odomoter if they are dissatisfied with the vehicle.

There are, of course, various terms and conditions, including ensuring the car is undamaged. Plus, you have to provide proof you have purchased (or will purchase) a new vehicle of equal or greater value than the Epica you're handing back.

But, for the most part, the money-back offer is a way of potentially "sealing the deal" against more established competitors, the most obvious of which is the Epica's prime target, the popular and well trusted Toyota Camry.

"We haven't really been in this segment for some time," says Holden executive director of sales, marketing and aftersales, Alan Batey, referring to the recent decision to discontinue the European-sourced Vectra.

"We don't believe the (mid-sized) market is going to grow, so we have to conquest buyers [from other brands].

"This offer is a unique and differentiated marketing tool to launch the new nameplate in this highly competitive mid-size segment."

Batey says other General Motors brands around the world have used a money-back offer as part of their marketing pitch.

He is expecting only a handful to be returned.

"If we use the GM experience, very few - fewer than 1 per cent - will be returned."

The Epica arrives as the most affordable six-cylinder car on the market.

Underneath, however, the Daewoo-made mid-sized car shares some basic componentry with Daewoos up to 10 years old.

That said, its starting price of $25,990 only gets you a 2.0-litre, in-line six-cylinder engine, which needs lots of encouragement to move the 1.5-tonne Epica body.

Holden is quick to point out that the engine was designed by Porsche.

Despite the apparent pedigree, using more expensive premium unleaded petrol, the underwhelming engine musters just 105kW of power.

To put that in perspective, the recently updated Holden Astra gets a new 1.8-litre engine with 103kW of power, just 2kW less than the bigger-engined, six-cylinder Epica.

But the Epica uses a miserly 8.2 litres of fuel per 100km, which will form a large part of the car's tough sales pitch.


This is interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gobes32]

Once again Holden have proved they are the masters of marketing.

[Mongoose]

Why dosent Holden just dump the commonwhore and start selling only Korean cars?

[LUXO_8]

Originally Posted by Mongoose10

Why dosent Holden just dump the commonwhore and start selling only Korean cars?

the commodore isnt korean????.....had me fooled
thats a joke guys.....ha...ha and all that

the Vectra kind of had its nieche marcket......buyers that would only buy a european car and wouldnt be seen dead in an aussie car... im not too sure how well the "replacement" will seat with those buyers...

[Fordmuscle1965]

the commodore isnt korean????.....


YET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Dave_au]

Guys get over the Korean thing. Many of you sit there and pride yourselves on Ford's extensive list of Eurofords. Daewoo and Holden will probably outlast Ford given the apparent future plans.

Guess what boys and girls, their priced out of the market for perceived value. The people buying these Korean sourced Holden's couldnt give a stuff about where the car is made, they just want something cheap to get from A to B.

Holden wants to make it's profits by moving a large number of inexpensive cars, Ford's trying Holden's old strategy of selling a lower number of Euro cars at a higher price. Guess what, I have significant doubts on whether this strategic plan will be successful.

[AuFairlaneV8]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Guess what boys and girls, their priced out of the market for perceived value. The people buying these Korean sourced Holden's couldnt give a stuff about where the car is made, they just want something cheap to get from A to B.

Holden wants to make it's profits by moving a large number of inexpensive cars, Ford's trying Holden's old strategy of selling a lower number of Euro cars at a higher price. Guess what, I have significant doubts on whether this strategic plan will be successful.

The problem for the ford strategy is that the koreans are getting closer and closer to euro build quality and in many cases better reliability. Admittadly european cars still have a better reputation but the belief that euro is better is slowly fading away.

[ads]

Originally Posted by Dave_au

Guys get over the Korean thing. Many of you sit there and pride yourselves on Ford's extensive list of Eurofords. Daewoo and Holden will probably outlast Ford given the apparent future plans.

Guess what boys and girls, their priced out of the market for perceived value. The people buying these Korean sourced Holden's couldnt give a stuff about where the car is made, they just want something cheap to get from A to B.

Holden wants to make it's profits by moving a large number of inexpensive cars, Ford's trying Holden's old strategy of selling a lower number of Euro cars at a higher price. Guess what, I have significant doubts on whether this strategic plan will be successful.

Seems to me that Ford likes to follow Holden a lot in the marketplace, apart from some sparks of brilliance such as the ZF auto, XR6T, BA etc. Only now are they starting to hop on the euro import bandwagon, whereas Holden has now jumped off it. I personally think, and I think the overall media message is, that Holden seems to be in a better position than Ford at the moment. I mean, Holden might be bleeding build quality good will on the korean product but at least they're making money. Ford is losing sales and doesn't have a lot of brand image out there beyond the usual faithful.

The core market: i.e. people who generally know nothing about cars, have gone off Ford due to build quality and fuel consumption issues with Falcon. The average punter doesn't notice that their falcodore can pull a hairpin at 70 k's in the wet, but they do notice when the airbag light stays on because some nit wit didn't wire the car properly.

By the time Ford thinks to export, as Holden is already doing, it might be too late. Ford America are idiots, they'll consolidate and do some crap like update the crown victoria and build it in Australia. You can already see it; Tom knows and he's buttering up Ford Australia for losses of jobs and independance. You guys have too much faith in FoMoCos corporate strategy; they've screwed things already and they'll probably continue to.

Two things Ford Australia: build quality and fuel consumption. That's all Ford engineers can do, they already have a ripper chassis and I6 engines. And maybe stoke the fires under the GT, god knows I'll need something to store in a shed up country way before we all start driving lincoln towncars.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by ads

I mean, Holden might be bleeding build quality good will on the korean product but at least they're making money.

Nope....

Holden lost lots of money in 2005, and will announce another loss for 2006 soon. Who knows what 2007 will hold for them ?

VE is not doing the volume they budgetted for !!

[ltd]

Originally Posted by ads

The core market: i.e. people who generally know nothing about cars, have gone off Ford due to build quality and fuel consumption issues with Falcon. The average punter doesn't notice that their falcodore can pull a hairpin at 70 k's in the wet, but they do notice when the airbag light stays on because some nit wit didn't wire the car properly.

By the time Ford thinks to export, as Holden is already doing, it might be too late. Ford America are idiots, they'll consolidate and do some crap like update the crown victoria and build it in Australia. You can already see it; Tom knows and he's buttering up Ford Australia for losses of jobs and independance. You guys have too much faith in FoMoCos corporate strategy; they've screwed things already and they'll probably continue to.

Couple of things, Ford is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition on Fuel consumption; they spent the last two models researching and developing methods to overcome just such a thing. As for build quality, it is constantly improving so I would suggest that Ford are improving there too. You are right about the average punter, but one external influence outside fords control is that camry represents a great alternative to the ford. Is ford worried? I don't think so. Remember their car is at the end of its life cycle, they'd be more worried about their car at the beginning of its life cycle much the same as the VE has not been the sales success envisioned.

Your second point, that Ford america will screw us is ridiculous. What Ford America is trying to do is get rid of the town car line as it only sells 3000-3500 per month. This volume in the American market is untenable. In Australia, fords mainstay car is lucky to sell that many a month across all platforms, let alone one like LWB.

The crown Vic has equally sad numbers, and Ford are eager to get something with more european flair as per the tastes of people changing toward a more sophisticated look such as our cars. That's why they have focus groups going over the Australian car ie BF and Orion to see if they like it. Apparently, it has been roundly well received, especially by police.
You may also recall what I said about the town car, allow me to elaborate. The Town Car for America will be based on an Orion chassis and will undoubtedly share over 80% of Orion, but may have an American flavour to ease the transition to market. An aussie LWB may have the same panels as the falcon (like the BA), yet may prove successful in its own rite. This experiment has been tried before with the AU LWB, and most people when asked about AU say they liked the fairlane and not the SWB.
I don't think after lessons learnt that Australia is set to have an ugly LWB foistered upon us by ford, so this my friend will mean new jobs for Australia, and Ford would automatically rise up the pecking order of vehicle sales.

[ads]

Originally Posted by ltd

Couple of things, Ford is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition on Fuel consumption; they spent the last two models researching and developing methods to overcome just such a thing. As for build quality, it is constantly improving so I would suggest that Ford are improving there too. You are right about the average punter, but one external influence outside fords control is that camry represents a great alternative to the ford. Is ford worried? I don't think so. Remember their car is at the end of its life cycle, they'd be more worried about their car at the beginning of its life cycle much the same as the VE has not been the sales success envisioned.

Your second point, that Ford america will screw us is ridiculous. What Ford America is trying to do is get rid of the town car line as it only sells 3000-3500 per month. This volume in the American market is untenable. In Australia, fords mainstay car is lucky to sell that many a month across all platforms, let alone one like LWB.

The crown Vic has equally sad numbers, and Ford are eager to get something with more european flair as per the tastes of people changing toward a more sophisticated look such as our cars. That's why they have focus groups going over the Australian car ie BF and Orion to see if they like it. Apparently, it has been roundly well received, especially by police.
You may also recall what I said about the town car, allow me to elaborate. The Town Car for America will be based on an Orion chassis and will undoubtedly share over 80% of Orion, but may have an American flavour to ease the transition to market. An aussie LWB may have the same panels as the falcon (like the BA), yet may prove successful in its own rite. This experiment has been tried before with the AU LWB, and most people when asked about AU say they liked the fairlane and not the SWB.
I don't think after lessons learnt that Australia is set to have an ugly LWB foistered upon us by ford, so this my friend will mean new jobs for Australia, and Ford would automatically rise up the pecking order of vehicle sales.

Well, ltd, I provided the speculation and you've provided some facts that have shot down a couple of my ideas in burning flames. A few counterpoints, however,

- Ford is not leaps and bounds ahead in consumption. They are still narrowly worst in class for most real world comparisons. Ford likes to quote nice round 10.2 L/100km ADR figures but in the majority of comparos the ford is last in fuel consumption, in sixes and especially 8's (Fords V8's are woeful fuel consumption wise). But they have improved, definately, in the order of 1 - 1.5 L/100km, which I agree is significant.

- Before you say best in class performance, I'll say it again. The average punter isn't very performance literate, their vocab is limited to "6 cylinder power". They don't know what kW or Nm or 0 to 100 lm/hr is, or they don't care. All they want is boogie, and aurion, falcon, commodore and magna all have it in spades these days.

- We won't be driving lincolns, but Ford America would be too proud to just hand over their entire large car real wheel drive architecture design to Australia wouldn't they? I'd be surprised if Ford America decided to proceed with such a brilliant idea, given their previous track record.

- Build quality may be happening in broadmeadows but it hasn't happened in public perception.

Cheers, ads.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by csv8

Despite the apparent pedigree, using more expensive premium unleaded petrol, the underwhelming engine musters just 105kW of power.


This is interesting !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The interest stopped here for mine, 1500kg car with 105kw of what...
A Hyundai Accent would have have a better ratio of performance..

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

The interest stopped here for mine, 1500kg car with 105kw of what...
A Hyundai Accent would have have a better ratio of performance..

Yeah I just saw that. The 2.0L engine is actually quite decent on paper it would seem - comparable to the old Nissan SR20DEs in the Pulsar SSS, although obviously the Pulsar SSS was a 1.1 Tonne car.

[AuFairlaneV8]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

The interest stopped here for mine, 1500kg car with 105kw of what...
A Hyundai Accent would have have a better ratio of performance..

yeah you would be hoping it has plenty of torque, which I doubt for a 2litre 6

[bathurst77]

Whats the problem with the Korean thing anyhow? Get over it.

Ford and GMH have been selling cars built in Japan and other asian countries such as Thailand in oz for a long time.
And in the 80s Ford had the festiva in oz which was a badge engineered KIA.
OR was it Ok then coz ford were doing it, but bad now coz its gmh?

besides KIA and Hyundai are ok cars if you just want basic whitegoods type "mum-to-the-shops" cars, which is what a hell of a lot of people want.
whats wrong with giving people what they want? Not everyone is an enthusiast.

[Fordmuscle1965]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Whats the problem with the Korean thing anyhow? Get over it.

Ford and GMH have been selling cars built in Japan and other asian countries such as Thailand in oz for a long time.
And in the 80s Ford had the festiva in oz which was a badge engineered KIA.
OR was it Ok then coz ford were doing it, but bad now coz its gmh?

besides KIA and Hyundai are ok cars if you just want basic whitegoods type "mum-to-the-shops" cars, which is what a hell of a lot of people want.
whats wrong with giving people what they want? Not everyone is an enthusiast.

I guess the difference between Ford and holden is that Ford at least will stick with its own loyalties when it comes to models, most ford products, true are probably not made here on our shores and you could argue about a ute being renamed a mazda, but the majority of cars on their line up wear the ford badge all over the world, where-as holdens korean influence wear badges from just about everywhere. Pontiac, Chev, Daewoo, Holden, just to name a couple, same cars different badge. Go to the UK Chev Website you'd think you were visiting a Kia website, Where-as most if not all of the product at the Ford site is genuine Ford product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[joolz]

Originally Posted by Fordmuscle1965

I guess the difference between Ford and holden is that Ford at least will stick with its own loyalties when it comes to models, most ford products, true are probably not made here on our shores and you could argue about a ute being renamed a mazda, but the majority of cars on their line up wear the ford badge all over the world, where-as holdens korean influence wear badges from just about everywhere. Pontiac, Chev, Daewoo, Holden, just to name a couple, same cars different badge. Go to the UK Chev Website you'd think you were visiting a Kia website, Where-as most if not all of the product at the Ford site is genuine Ford product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If it comes to the locally built Holden and Ford you will find that the Holden is getting to a piont of only assembled in Australia (Holden opt to go offshore for over 50% of components) Where as Ford is the opposite.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by joolz

If it comes to the locally built Holden and Ford you will find that the Holden is getting to a piont of only assembled in Australia (Holden opt to go offshore for over 50% of components) Where as Ford is the opposite.

Not for long. I'd put my money on ford doing the same with the Orion when it's released.

[MethodX]

Originally Posted by Fordmuscle1965

I guess the difference between Ford and holden is that Ford at least will stick with its own loyalties when it comes to models, most ford products, true are probably not made here on our shores and you could argue about a ute being renamed a mazda, but the majority of cars on their line up wear the ford badge all over the world, where-as holdens korean influence wear badges from just about everywhere. Pontiac, Chev, Daewoo, Holden, just to name a couple, same cars different badge. Go to the UK Chev Website you'd think you were visiting a Kia website, Where-as most if not all of the product at the Ford site is genuine Ford product!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GM is GM, doesnt matter what division it is.

As Ford rebadges products from its other divisions.

[Fordmuscle1965]

Originally Posted by MethodX

GM is GM, doesnt matter what division it is.

As Ford rebadges products from its other divisions.

Like What!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mazda Ute and?

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Fordmuscle1965

Like What!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mazda Ute and?

BT50 is badged as a Ford Ranger, as is the Escape. Focus and Mazda product have more than a passing resemblence in respect of chasis and mechanicals. Mazda do a lot of engineering for Ford and quite frankly, often improve the Ford product, which Ford then takes back and puts in its cars. Mazda is not alone in this of course, as Volvo does a similar thing etc. Yes it is a two way street and a lot of Ford engineering goes to these manufacturers as well.

Anyway case in point is Mazdas experience with direct injection and turbo charging the duratec engines and the next gen of Ford sixes for the new Mazda 6. Expect that technology to move over to Euro Fords in the next generation.

Even before Ford had the shares in Mazda they have now, Mazda has always been a source of engineering for Ford and here in Australia, badge swapping has been going on for thirty odd years. Heck they even share the same spare parts distribution in Australia. Made a lot easier by the number of parts they both share in their cars.

The fact we don't hear a lot of this was more to do with the "Not made here syndrome in Ford US" that killed the logical and very profitable exchange of technologies and engineering between brands around the world. GM did the same, but has been faster to learn its mistake. I only read the other day that Subaru US is about to churn out a 100000 Toyota Camry's for the US market starting this year. Why? Because Toyota own shares in Subaru. saw a production plant that they owned that was under capicity and did something about it. Ford have to think the same way to survive.

The key difference now is that Mazda source a lot of components from around the world, which wasn't always the case. My supposedly Japanese Mazda 6 has at parts from at least three countries that I have identified already. In that sense they are already ahead of Ford Australia in making their cars more profitable.

For better or worse, Ford is just playing catchup with Holden on this one.

Dan

[Gobes32]

Has anyone here drove an Epica? It would be interesting to have their point of view, that's all.

[DirtyHarry]

What I can't quite understand is why GM chooses to actually build different, and inferior, vehicles in Korea to what they produce elsewhere.


Take the European built Corsa (Barina), Astra, and Vectra for example. Three good cars, with one common problem - price.


So OK, I can kind of understand why GM dropped the Corsa/Barina and Vectra from the Australian markets, and replaced them with the Korean cars. But why do they have to build a POS like the current Barina in their Korean factory - why not just tool up and produce the vastly superior Corsa?


Same goes for Epica. I haven't driven one and I haven't read any reviews, but I would be surprised if it's as good as the Vectra. In any event, why produce two totally different mid sized cars?


The Corsa is built in countries diverse as Germany, Spain, Argentina, Brazil, Mexico, Columbia and India, as is the Astra. AFAIK the Vectra is only manufactured in Germany. I don't know why.


Maybe it's got something to do with the regulatory authorities in Korea and they have to design cars, as well as produce them at the former Daewoo plant. It just seems like a very inefficient way to build a car that people are not particularly thrilled about.


I guess Ford should just be thankful that GM don't produce Corsa, Astra and Vectra in Korea, and send them here.

[Bucket]

Theres a saying in Sales...Bulls#it baffles science. In this case I think its true...

Masses of Australians will flock to holden dealerships after seeing the slogan on Telly

"The new Holden Epica...Go incredibly slowly"

IMHO...Power is a saftey issue...You need to have enough of it for things like Overtaking etc...105Kw and a 1.5T Car (ok so it might have slightly better torque) isnt enough for obvious reasons.

[ltd]

OK, some have outlined the problem here and I'll reiterate it for you.
Cars made in foreign countries such as the Ford Focus are made to exacting standards for the head company. The cars are designed to meet certain criteria such as ANCAP etc, and are merely built to certain specifications.
The cars that Holden are making are designed and built in Korea for Korean standards; ergo the Barina failed ANCAP, as it was not designed for it.

Cars like the epica are designed with the criteria of being cheap enough and competitive enough for foreign markets to swoop people into a market which they would ordinarily ignore. Cheap is not always the best, and cheapening a product such as the commodore will not always guarantee sales.

Furthermore, I think Ford have done the right thing with their approach to not trying to outbid Holden on the commodore, as such a car could polarise opinion and in the end look very cheap and nasty. Regardless of the commodores pedigree, it is starting to be perceived as a Korean brand and will therefore ultimately lose sales to Toyota, and perhaps Ford should the Orion be as good as it is supposed to be. Remember, Holden lost the export deal to the USA on fuel economy, and this time next year the VE runs the risk of looking very dated and suffering fledgling sales whilst still trying to recoup their 1 billion dollars spent on the VE. If their margins are 20%, they need to sell over 5 billion dollars worth of the VE to break even, which also means they cannot spend big until they have the VE paid off so effectively, their hands are tied to anything new for atleast 4 years.

Interesting times ahead indeed.

[FASTXR]

The Epica was driven and reviewed in the auto section of the Sunday Telkegraph yesterday (can't find a link anywhere), and to put it bluntly received less than glowing praise.

I too did a double-take when I saw it was a 2 litre 6 cylinder putting out 105kw, and thats on PULP!

Still, like others have said, there's a lot of people out there to whom price is everything and who are probably ignorant of the fact of where the vehicle actually comes from.

[Sledgehammer]

Originally Posted by csv8

Underneath, however, the Daewoo-made mid-sized car shares some basic componentry with Daewoos up to 10 years old.!!

That pretty much sums it up.

[AlbertM]

Epica or Epikack? Both make me throw up.

[GRNKPR]

id like to see the conditions and how hard it would be too get your moneyback,as when you trade in the car is whisked away as you are signing paperwork for your new one ,bet thay wouldnt be that quick to give ya moneyback

[Bens_ELXR6]

Originally Posted by GRNKPR

id like to see the conditions and how hard it would be too get your moneyback,as when you trade in the car is whisked away as you are signing paperwork for your new one ,bet thay wouldnt be that quick to give ya moneyback

Read the 1st post. Because I think somwhere in there he said one of the "Terms" is:
Must have less than 1500kms on it, no more than 30 days old... AND you must have proof, or have a receipt that you are buying a car from holden, the same price, or more expensive.

Therefor, catching people in with the "money-back guarantee" then locking them in with them. Its almost like a life-sentance for not reading the fine-print :P lol

Cheers,

Ben