5000th RAM

[jstanovic]

Here's a bit of light reading, the tax workings on Commercial Vehicles in Thailand. Apparently one requirement to be a commercial vehicle over there is rear leaf springs and rear drum brakes.


http://www.apu.ac.jp/rcaps/uploads/f...m=auto,-274,46

[Brazen]

That’s great info, always wondered why drums were on 60k utes. Its a Thai tax rule.

Surprised they don’t have a export version with discs, especially with the big loads at higher speeds people tow in Australia compared to the rest of Asia

Incredibly rare to see things like caravans in Asia. Whereas here every second grey nomad is towing a block of flats at highway speeds.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by jstanovic

Here's a bit of light reading, the tax workings on Commercial Vehicles in Thailand. Apparently one requirement to be a commercial vehicle over there is rear leaf springs and rear drum brakes.


http://www.apu.ac.jp/rcaps/uploads/f...m=auto,-274,46

That was part of the local parts lobby to protect those established local industries,
they were pretty much considered compulsory to met local content rules.

Makes our former local protection rules look like chicken feed.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

That’s great info, always wondered why drums were on 60k utes. Its a Thai tax rule.

Surprised they don’t have a export version with discs, especially with the big loads at higher speeds people tow in Australia compared to the rest of Asia

Incredibly rare to see things like caravans in Asia. Whereas here every second grey nomad is towing a block of flats at highway speeds.

Don't forget that most heavier trailers and caravans also have their own
braking systems so the braking load is not substantially greater than on
unbraked trailers.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Well I guess he could have said spark ignition engine instead

Which would be more accurate if it has flex fuel capability but semantics.

Was going with the spirit (excuse pun) of the American conceptualization of the engine Everyone remember to spell words like 'visualisation' with the correct 's' today

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The 7.3 looks to be a $2K premium over the 6.2 gasoline engine but way
less than the 6.7 Powerstroke diesel that are usually a $10K premium.
Add to that the extra cost of services and maintenance and plenty of buyers
are looking for a much simpler gasoline powered truck. It's back to basics.

Imagine that by 2029 (just before the predicted end of the world) people will be dropping these Ford motors into 200 Series LandCruisers after the diesel is up for 8 injectors, again.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That was part of the local parts lobby to protect those established local industries,
they were pretty much considered compulsory to met local content rules.

Makes our former local protection rules look like chicken feed.

They were chicken feed. That's why we don't have an industry any more.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

That’s great info, always wondered why drums were on 60k utes. Its a Thai tax rule.

Surprised they don’t have a export version with discs, especially with the big loads at higher speeds people tow in Australia compared to the rest of Asia

Incredibly rare to see things like caravans in Asia. Whereas here every second grey nomad is towing a block of flats at highway speeds.

The us ranger has rear discs.

[BENT_8]

So lets just clarify, the US company which makes the Ranger provides its local market with a rear disc versions, but good old Australia only gets drum brakes due to a deal with the Thai Government to get tax breaks for supporting local industry, Australian's then snap them up providing the manufacturer with handsome profit margins and all this whilst our own auto manufacturing industry was being thrown to the wolves...

[hayseed]

The Chinese Foton Dualcab has Discs on all 4 corners..

[BENT_8]

Don't worry guys, you know that 3.5t trailer hanging off the back that you're legally allowed to tow, well its got brakes, so as long as you've correctly adjusted that $200 brake controller you bought through Ebay, the trailer should stop your $60k Thai special.

You couldn't script this ****.

Well, you could if it meant as a manufacturer you we're saving more $10 dollar.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

That was sedans & wagons only (1986 - 34 years ago).

The Falcon ute & van still had rear drums up to 1992 XF. The XG ute & van was the first commercial series to get rear discs. That's around 28 years ago.

Dr Terry

I think you will find that's 1993, my 93 XF has drums still, I like them.

[jpd80]

How odd that it doesn’t seem to be a major problem
on our roads except for say, people that want to make
this into more than it is.

Most owners will never tow anywhere near the limit and
those that do must understand that being aware of the
regulations and obligations are on them.

Don’t know about the rest of you but most of the crew cab
Utes I see are used as cars and aren’t normally seen towing
Save for the odd jet ski or builders trailer.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Don't worry guys, you know that 3.5t trailer hanging off the back that you're legally allowed to tow, well its got brakes, so as long as you've correctly adjusted that $200 brake controller you bought through Ebay, the trailer should stop your $60k Thai special.

You couldn't script this ****.

Well, you could if it meant as a manufacturer you we're saving more $10 dollar.

The amount of times I've seen caravans locking up their brakes on slow braking applications, usually while they are still in the caravan park.

[jpd80]

I wonder if someone will take up the challenge of converting F Series and matching HSV’s Ram output, it might be an easy way out for Ford to “help” a local shop over the hard bits....

Most of the conversion work is limited to the cab, a removable unit on the bigger utes. Perhaps there’s an opportunity to build export units in the states as LHD and do the conversions at the plant on a mini conversion line.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by jpd80

How odd that it doesn’t seem to be a major problem
on our roads except for say, people that want to make
this into more than it is.

It is a big deal. Everyone on the road benefits with these things having better brakes. Whether it’s kids on their bikes, pedestrians crossing roads and other people in other cars.

When these things hit, it’s not like being hit by a Yaris. They do a lot of damage. And with the top two selling cars in the country now being 2.2 tonne leaf spring, drum brake utes and with now a rising road toll all aspects needs looking at.

Emphasis should always be on safety and adequate towing performance, not prioritising a Thailand taxation loophole

[naddis01]

Pedders Ranger disc brake conversion supposedly stops 14m sooner than the standard drums when loaded at GVM travelling at 100km/hr...

https://www.pedders.com.au/product-r...r-px-pxii-4wd/

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Don’t know about the rest of you but most of the crew cab
Utes I see are used as cars and aren’t normally seen towing
Save for the odd jet ski or builders trailer.

Perhaps head down to a caravan park and you'll find dozens of Thai specials parked next to big vans, I've been to two parks in the past fortnight and seen plenty.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Perhaps head down to a caravan park and you'll find dozens of Thai specials parked next to big vans, I've been to two parks in the past fortnight and seen plenty.

I'm looking at half a dozen right now.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

The amount of times I've seen caravans locking up their brakes on slow braking applications, usually while they are still in the caravan park.

no doubt due to having a non proportional brake controller or the setting still wound up from travelling on the highway. wouldn't matter what kind of brakes the car had, drum, disk or otherwise.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It is a big deal. Everyone on the road benefits with these things having better brakes. Whether it’s kids on their bikes, pedestrians crossing roads and other people in other cars.

When these things hit, it’s not like being hit by a Yaris. They do a lot of damage. And with the top two selling cars in the country now being 2.2 tonne leaf spring, drum brake utes and with now a rising road toll all aspects needs looking at.

And that has more to do with risk taking than any perceived deficiency in rear drum brakes on utes. Heck. around 45% of fatalities last year were SVAs into stationary objects. The top factors were speeding, alcohol, fatigue and inattentiveness.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Brazen

It is a big deal. Everyone on the road benefits with these things having better brakes. Whether it’s kids on their bikes, pedestrians crossing roads and other people in other cars.

When these things hit, it’s not like being hit by a Yaris. They do a lot of damage. And with the top two selling cars in the country now being 2.2 tonne leaf spring, drum brake utes and with now a rising road toll all aspects needs looking at.

Emphasis should always be on safety and adequate towing performance, not prioritising a Thailand taxation loophole

so how about banning old vehicles then? anything older than 10years needs to be scrapped?

I'm with jpd on this. its making a mountain out of a molehill because its good to knock the ford products on a ford forum. I'm sure the braking ability passes ford's internal testing. i'm yet to read a review where the braking performance is said to be not good enough, or any feedback on caravan forums where the brakes are criticized.

this thread is about the RAM. It is possible to be positive about a car without turning it in to a contest, or putting down a rival. RAM certainly has its pro's, but in 1500 guise, rear axle weight limit isn't one of them.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by prydey

no doubt due to having a non proportional brake controller or the setting still wound up from travelling on the highway. wouldn't matter what kind of brakes the car had, drum, disk or otherwise.

or maybe not maintained or set up properly.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

so how about banning old vehicles then? anything older than 10years needs to be scrapped?

I'm with jpd on this. its making a mountain out of a molehill because its good to knock the ford products on a ford forum. I'm sure the braking ability passes ford's internal testing. i'm yet to read a review where the braking performance is said to be not good enough, or any feedback on caravan forums where the brakes are criticized.

this thread is about the RAM. It is possible to be positive about a car without turning it in to a contest, or putting down a rival. RAM certainly has its pro's, but in 1500 guise, rear axle weight limit isn't one of them.

The 1500 does have a decent limit on towing, I hope people discover the benefits of fifth wheel goose neck trailering as it’s much safer than towing with a regular hitch.

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by naddis01

Pedders Ranger disc brake conversion supposedly stops 14m sooner than the standard drums when loaded at GVM travelling at 100km/hr...

https://www.pedders.com.au/product-r...r-px-pxii-4wd/

There's a little bit more to it than just stopping distance I'd say. Not getting as much brake fade would be a benefit.
I doubt they put discs into every road car to save 14mm on stopping distance.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by prydey

so how about banning old vehicles then? anything older than 10years needs to be scrapped?

I'm with jpd on this. its making a mountain out of a molehill because its good to knock the ford products on a ford forum. I'm sure the braking ability passes ford's internal testing. i'm yet to read a review where the braking performance is said to be not good enough, or any feedback on caravan forums where the brakes are criticized.

Rob, with all due respect, vehicles built prior to the introduction of airbags passed testing at the time, vehicles built after the introduction of airbags that didn't feature them passed testing too, same goes for ABS, DSC etc. etc.
No ones saying they don't meet the standard, the question is, why does a 60k vehicle built in 2020 and sold in our market still feature them when the same vehicle sold in the manufacturers home market gets discs.
If there is no advantage, why have them at all?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

Rob, with all due respect, vehicles built prior to the introduction of airbags passed testing at the time, vehicles built after the introduction of airbags that didn't feature them passed testing too, same goes for ABS, DSC etc. etc.
No ones saying they don't meet the standard, the question is, why does a 60k vehicle built in 2020 and sold in our market still feature them when the same vehicle sold in the manufacturers home market gets discs.
If there is no advantage, why have them at all?

US Colorado also has four wheel disc brakes and I think that's why the
Ranger got them. The US Ranger is considered more like T6 version 1.5
and was given upgrades to carry it for three years as it will be getting the
next gen Ranger a lot later than ROW markets. It also hints that Bronco
will probably have four wheel disc brakes too...

Hilux and Tacoma still have drum brakes as it was a decision to carry on
with the existing platform. If Toyota does it then it must be right, right?

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by Ben73

There's a little bit more to it than just stopping distance I'd say. Not getting as much brake fade would be a benefit.
I doubt they put discs into every road car to save 14mm on stopping distance.

Also the park brake is much more efficient with drum brakes and probably a better all round package when tow ratings are getting up so high

[jpd80]

This will be the new whinge now that the diesel Ranger Raptor has been "cured"....
never mind that some larger vehicles still have drum brake rears, let's just kick the Ford.

[naddis01]

Originally Posted by Ben73

There's a little bit more to it than just stopping distance I'd say. Not getting as much brake fade would be a benefit.
I doubt they put discs into every road car to save 14mm on stopping distance.

14mm