The curtains go down for Holden

[Franco Cozzo]

When Holden’s intention to buy score shrunk to 8 per cent, Holden executives were clearly worried. When the score eventually shrunk to 4 per cent, there was disbelief – but the data turned out to be true.

In the end, fewer Australians wanted to buy a new Holden than at any other time in its history.

Holden’s ageing model line-up didn’t help. But having wrapped itself in the Australia flag for more than 70 years, Holden suddenly stood for nothing. And buyers could sense it a mile off.

Had Holden hit the panic button, used straight-talking ads, and got its volumes up to a viable level a little sooner, it might not have ended this way.

https://www.caradvice.com.au/912429/...fter-72-years/

Probably didn't take a genius to realise that once you peg your brand so hard to being 'Australia's own' then got rid of the Australian part that the writing was on the wall.

They built a cult of personality around the Commodore for years and let everything else flounder or offered cheap ****ty cars with their badge on it from Daewoo.

It's a good article though covering a lot that went on from 2013 to now.

Also the Toyota CEO who came out of retirement to turn the brand around, then threw in the towel before he had to make the unpopular announcements - what an absolute joke

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.caradvice.com.au/912429/...fter-72-years/

Probably didn't take a genius to realise that once you peg your brand so hard to being 'Australia's own' then got rid of the Australian part that the writing was on the wall.

They built a cult of personality around the Commodore for years and let everything else flounder or offered cheap ****ty cars with their badge on it from Daewoo.

It's a good article though covering a lot that went on from 2013 to now.

Also the Toyota CEO who came out of retirement to turn the brand around, then threw in the towel before he had to make the unpopular announcements - what an absolute joke

Sad to see the name disappear. They made some bl**dy good cars back in the 60s 70s and 80s. Long live the GTR, Sandman, SS, GTS and Monaro's of those era's.
Lost interest in Holden after the last WB.

[Citroënbender]

Curtains come down. Hookers go down.

Not sure if I’d laud the classic Holden era as good, but lovably iconic and mostly fixable anywhere. Good for the days when ordinary people travelled more adventurously by car.

And I still think the Government should find a way to take the name back off a multinational, and store it in case we ever have a local car industry again.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Curtains come down.

Not sure if I’d laud the classic Holden era as good,

I would.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.caradvice.com.au/912429/...fter-72-years/

Probably didn't take a genius to realise that once you peg your brand so hard to being 'Australia's own' then got rid of the Australian part that the writing was on the wall.

They built a cult of personality around the Commodore for years and let everything else flounder or offered cheap ****ty cars with their badge on it from Daewoo.

It's a good article though covering a lot that went on from 2013 to now.

Also the Toyota CEO who came out of retirement to turn the brand around, then threw in the towel before he had to make the unpopular announcements - what an absolute joke

It was a mercy-killing in the end. There was nothing on offer that would make you think about parting with cash.

[roKWiz]

At one point like Ford, they had quite the offering of trucks too.

You could buy, Bedford, Isuzu, Chev C series in various GVM ratings as well as the bus division which so many local bus bodies were built on, (custom coaches manufacturing co) CCMC being one I remember the most.
Still see a couple getting around as motorhome conversions.

Never really understood why they both would pull out of the heavy vehicle market.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Sad to see the name disappear. They made some bl**dy good cars back in the 60s 70s and 80s. Long live the GTR, Sandman, SS, GTS and Monaro's of those era's.
Lost interest in Holden after the last WB.

I'm not big on the old stuff, quintessential Holden for me is 3.8L Ecotec, LSx engined stuff and a good LWB platform (Statto/Caprice) but that is probably due to my age

I'll always maintain that the 3.6L Alloytec is a boat anchor but apparently it responds really well to forced induction.

What I do like about Holden was how they adopted the engines and electronics from their US parent company, from my perspective from an aftermarket repair the diagnostics on Commodores was much easier and more readily available than the Falcon, there was no issues pulling information out of them with a scanner and they all worked with all the functions.

The Falcon on the other hand is an orphan in the Ford family, it didn't share electronics or engines with Ford global (aside from Ecoboost) - pain in the *** to program, scan, pull information from.

Had a $5000 scanner costing me $2000 a year in updates that was a paper weight with a Falcon, having to borrow another shops one which still couldn't do everything - they don't spend money figuring out the diagnostics on an orphan that's unique in Australia/NZ market regardless of how much you pay for it. Having to get programming done at a Ford dealership 20km down the road and ferrying cars backwards/forwards.

Said scanner could pull live data from the Lebonator and do programming functions and that car has the electronics of a microwave

No drama with a Commodore - uses the same electronics and engines as the stuff in the USA,much cheaper to develop aftermarket diagnostic software for.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

It was a mercy-killing in the end. There was nothing on offer that would make you think about parting with cash.

The ZB Commodore looks like a good car - on the second hand market!

[smoo]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

And I still think the Government should find a way to take the name back off a multinational, and store it in case we ever have a local car industry again.

The Chinese are probably already onto it as another way to flip the bird to the gullible round eye.
Holden can be MG Mark 2. Instead of aging boomers in 2020 buying the new Chinese crap they think come out of the motherland with the nostalgic feeling of the ‘70s, the flat peak hat, diff welded mang mang **** off we’re full brigade can buy ‘Holdens’ in twenty years time with cheap CCP backed finance.

[csi20]

Barnsey https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...8&id=821994907

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by FairmontGS

It was a mercy-killing in the end. There was nothing on offer that would make you think about parting with cash.

The Acadia is (in my opinion) a capable vehicle, but was far too late to the Party.
Also the ZB (I won't call IT a commodore 'cause It Isn't) is also a capable vehicle.
They'll both be great S/H buys in a couple of years time i reckon..

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by hayseed

The Acadia is (in my opinion) a capable vehicle, but was far too late to the Party.
Also the ZB (I won't call IT a commodore 'cause It Isn't) is also a capable vehicle.
They'll both be great S/H buys in a couple of years time i reckon..

Agree on the ZB. I'd own the 4 cylinder FWD version. I've seen 2018/19 15k km examples for ~ $20k now. Raving bargain.

[BENT_8]

I was walking through the Elizabeth shopping centre the other day and noticed a Hyundai display in one of the shops, then i noticed the name...Peter Page Hyundai.
For those not familiar, Peter Page Holden was an institution when it comes to Holden dealers, been on the corner of Elizabeth way and a constant supporter of local sport for half a century and whilst im sure the sporting association will continue, seeing it a Hyundai dealer puts a full stop on Holdens presence in the Elizabeth area.

[CyberWasp]

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by hayseed

The Acadia is (in my opinion) a capable vehicle, but was far too late to the Party.
Also the ZB (I won't call IT a commodore 'cause It Isn't) is also a capable vehicle.
They'll both be great S/H buys in a couple of years time i reckon..

Except if you want parts for them. GM can’t be trusted to give a damn about parts supply. There are no business ethics there. Now they have bailed, it will be about doing everything for as cheap as possible. There are already screwing people on warranty from all reports. Dealers put claims into HQ and they are being rejected, unless it’s a clear manufacturing fault. If they think it’s not their problem they will just reject it. They don’t need to worry about burning potential customers any more.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'll always maintain that the 3.6L Alloytec is a boat anchor

A brand new, clean sheet design with a new production plant in Port Melbourne (I rode past it yesterday). And it was mediocre. I remember how underwhelmed the media was when the Alloytec was released. Hence why I was so livid in 2007 when Ford announced they were going to dump the superior Barra engine and replace it with an imported V6.

Back on topic. I still cannot believe GM is gone from Australia.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Except if you want parts for them. GM can’t be trusted to give a damn about parts supply. There are no business ethics there. Now they have bailed, it will be about doing everything for as cheap as possible. There are already screwing people on warranty from all reports. Dealers put claims into HQ and they are being rejected, unless it’s a clear manufacturing fault. If they think it’s not their problem they will just reject it. They don’t need to worry about burning potential customers any more.

They contacted me at work about making some stuff for them to keep their parts supply going but they didn't want to pay the going rate

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They contacted me at work about making some stuff for them to keep their parts supply going but they didn't want to pay the going rate

Do you mean you don’t want to supply parts for less than it costs to make? What’s wrong with you

[lra]

Originally Posted by smoo

Instead of aging boomers in 2020 buying the new Chinese crap they think come out of the motherland with the nostalgic feeling of the ‘70s, the flat peak hat, diff welded mang mang **** off we’re full brigade can buy ‘Holdens’ in twenty years time with cheap CCP backed finance.

As an aging boomer in 2020, I am one of the many who can distinguish the difference between a MGB,C or F, and a MG SUV Joke Car.
It would be the Gen Ys and other younger car 'drivers' who think there is a similarity, and not even know what the initials 'MG' refer to.

As for a 2040 Holden EV from China, it won't be the rusted on Holden fans buying them, they will all be dead, and not be aware of such heresy.
Soccer, Bat-pies, Pandas and Holden ****-boxes for true blue 'Strayans.

[lra]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Except if you want parts for them. GM can’t be trusted to give a damn about parts supply. There are no business ethics there. Now they have bailed, it will be about doing everything for as cheap as possible.

I recently bought a pair of 'genuine' tail-lights for my CV8, just for when I hope I don't need to use them.
Pontiac GTO lights made in Korea ............ and I was gullible enough to think they were left-over spare Holden lights.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They contacted me at work about making some stuff for them to keep their parts supply going but they didn't want to pay the going rate

I heard it was cheaper to buy the rights to 'They all do that' from Fraud than acknowledge a fault..

[MITCHAY]

A lot of events and decisions occurred to get to this point but the mismanagement is just unbelievable.

How on earth they thought they could get away with swapping out the locally built volume seller and slapping the badge on an import while not having a fresh line up ready is beyond comprehension

In all honesty though we were very lucky Holden survived the GFC when Pontiac got the axe because by all accounts they wanted Holden to go at the same time. How they spun that I will never know but it gave us some more if not borrowed time to get the VF.

Though I have read a few articles that say Holden wanted to design and build different models to cater for the market shift. We can speculate how well that would have worked out but I guess it would have done better than what has occurred.

They reckon they have dozens dealers for GMSV which is quite crazy as I wouldn't have any confidence in GM at all given what has happened.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I heard it was cheaper to buy the rights to 'They all do that' from Fraud than acknowledge a fault..

You’ve just seeded in my mind “Holden - The Musical”. They All Do That would be one of the standout songs from the final act.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

And I still think the Government should find a way to take the name back off a multinational, and store it in case we ever have a local car industry again.

Or as I put forward to a number of union organisers I know, The unions could have saved production very simply, yet no one at any union would look at the idea, wanting GovCo to pay the way.

Simple math shows, that at the final attempt to sell Holden off by GM to PSA, it would cost approximately $43 to $45 per union member in Australia to buy the brand, based on the 1.5 million members figure from Unions Australia.

If you were to take it at the same number of members at time of announcement of production ceasing, value at the time by GM was $172 million, that would equate to $114 to $116 dollars. Pretty cheap investment strategy to secure union members future.

The Australian Unions ownership by its members would have been a ground breaker for Industrial relations, OH&S, management etc.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

A brand new, clean sheet design with a new production plant in Port Melbourne (I rode past it yesterday). And it was mediocre. I remember how underwhelmed the media was when the Alloytec was released. Hence why I was so livid in 2007 when Ford announced they were going to dump the superior Barra engine and replace it with an imported V6.

Back on topic. I still cannot believe GM is gone from Australia.

The GM propaganda at the time stated they bench-marked the very best V6's from Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

In typical GM fashion, they bench-marked then figured out how to make it cheaper. What was supposed to be a all-new, clean sheet world class engine, turned out to be a utter disappointment.

I remember at the time when the Alloytec debuted in the VZ Commodore, the SV6 with the premium version of the new V6 was put head to head with the BA MK II XR6. The consensus was that the Barra 182 was smoother and more refined with a sweeter note to it compared to the Alloytec 190. And that was before launched the BF with the improved Barra 190.

To put that into context, Ford with their old warhorse with major roots back to 1988 and 1960, was a superior engine to the multi million dollar clean sheet design. As a Ford man in that era, I always loved the idea of that.

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

They built a cult of personality around the Commodore for years and let everything else flounder or offered cheap ****ty cars with their badge on it from Daewoo.

That's it in a nutshell.
They ran the Commode as their Hero Car, then sold re-badged Isuzus, Nissans, Toyotas, Suzukis, Opels, Daewoos, and Chevys, often mixing and matching. Models came, were heavily promoted, then simply disappeared. At times I couldn't even remember what models they were selling.
They could have leveraged their brand loyalty into a strong market position across multiple segments. Instead they ruined their reputation with a succession of substandard models and almost psychotic name flipping.

Their advertising when they decided to quit Australian Manufacturing, was a master-stroke of self-immolation. Most punters would not have known or cared, so Holden ran ads to remind them.

TBH Ford hasn't done much better, especially with the PowerShart fiasco, but they have been saved by the Ranger.

[roKWiz]

[Syndrome]

Day 1 in Australia for 'Life after Holden'

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

The GM propaganda at the time stated they bench-marked the very best V6's from Honda, Nissan and Toyota.

In typical GM fashion, they bench-marked then figured out how to make it cheaper. What was supposed to be a all-new, clean sheet world class engine, turned out to be a utter disappointment.

I remember at the time when the Alloytec debuted in the VZ Commodore, the SV6 with the premium version of the new V6 was put head to head with the BA MK II XR6. The consensus was that the Barra 182 was smoother and more refined with a sweeter note to it compared to the Alloytec 190. And that was before launched the BF with the improved Barra 190.

To put that into context, Ford with their old warhorse with major roots back to 1988 and 1960, was a superior engine to the multi million dollar clean sheet design. As a Ford man in that era, I always loved the idea of that.

SAAB used a 2.8L variation of it with a turbo - model code is LP9, it was also manufactured in Port Melbourne.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine

Realistically that's what Holden should have used in it's performance variation like the SV6, it would have made about 20KW less than the LSx engines not to dethrone their 'king' (on paper)

Considering they gave turbo technology a crack in the 1980s with the RB30DET I don't see why they overlooked it.

The biggest problem is HF V6 lacks lowdown torque, you can even feel this in the SIDI Commodores like VEII/VF, nothing under 4500 RPM then it starts moving at a proper rate.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

SAAB used a 2.8L variation of it with a turbo - model code is LP9, it was also manufactured in Port Melbourne.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_High_Feature_engine

Realistically that's what Holden should have used in it's performance variation like the SV6, it would have made about 20KW less than the LSx engines not to dethrone their 'king' (on paper)

Considering they gave turbo technology a crack in the 1980s with the RB30DET I don't see why they overlooked it.

The biggest problem is HF V6 lacks lowdown torque, you can even feel this in the SIDI Commodores like VEII/VF, nothing under 4500 RPM then it starts moving at a proper rate.

The High Feature V6, as it was known to those involved with the engine, know that the Turbo used for SAAB was only suitable for front-wheel-drive applications.

When the engine program was approved by GM-Powertrain, Riccardo and Bosch in 1999, it was decided that St Catherine's would handle all of North America's production requirements with Holden to get the remainder, thus bumping up the production volumes to make the construction of the new engine plant in Port Melbourne viable.

Holden would get the NA V6 for RWD
It would also produce turbo variant for SAAB
And it would produce a direct-injection version for Fiat

However SAAB was on death's door
And the GM-Fiat relationship ended acrimoniously which is still being fought

https://www.axios.com/general-motors...daa36ac1a.html

Therefore the HFV6/Alloytech group of engines never achieved the technical/production & sales/performance/profit goals set out in 1999 (at least in Australia).

Total balls-up!