Today is 10 years since the announcement that shook Australia & destroyed an industry. And killed Holden.

[Syndrome]

When I posted the five year thread at that stage the last Australian made car had rolled off the end of the assembly line months ago. The assembly plants were in the process of being dismantled. And Holden were seeing early warning signs that the Opel Commodore was not selling in the anticipated numbers.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11472229

Now it is ten years and the decision by Ford to end local production turned out worse than expected. Although Ford didn't kill the Holden brand, they contributed to it's demise. As I drive the streets of Melbourne I regularly see locations were former Holden dealers were located are now either selling other brands or are empty and derelict. That was not expected in 2013.

Plus the domino effect of former tier 1 suppliers going bankrupt (Ajax Fasteners, MacKay Rubber etc). And those who are still going have scaled back their local operations (I met with NSK a few weeks ago who told me how much their business has downsized since 2016).

If it was only possible to get the former assembly lines to

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

When I posted the five year thread at that stage the last Australian made car had rolled off the end of the assembly line months ago. The assembly plants were in the process of being dismantled. As I drive the streets of Melbourne I regularly see locations were former Holden dealers were located are now either selling other brands or are empty and derelict. That was not expected in 2013.

Plus the domino effect of former tier 1 suppliers going bankrupt (Ajax Fasteners, MacKay Rubber etc). And those who are still going have scaled back their local operations (I met with NSK a few weeks ago who told me how much their business has downsized since 2016).

Nothings gonna change while we have politicians making their own self interested agreements behind our backs.

[janddbone]

I came on to find a thread like this. A national shame and sad day.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Nothings gonna change while we have politicians making their own self interested agreements behind our backs.

Politicians didnt have much to do with it. We werent buying enough Fords, so they committed less and less to development and updates, so we bought even less. Once one manufacturer went, the critical mass wasnt there to support sourcing components here, and soon all the dominos start to fall. It's easy to say the government of the day were responsible for Holden walking away, but they had committed to a long term future under the previous government, then came cap in hand wanting even more. That was never going to fly.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by b0son

Politicians didnt have much to do with it. We werent buying enough Fords, so they committed less and less to development and updates, so we bought even less. Once one manufacturer went, the critical mass wasnt there to support sourcing components here, and soon all the dominos start to fall. It's easy to say the government of the day were responsible for Holden walking away, but they had committed to a long term future under the previous government, then came cap in hand wanting even more. That was never going to fly.

Thank you for your in depth answer but don't recall saying politicians made the decision for the manufacturers.
I just know because of them it may never return.

[Wretched]

On the flip side - Toyota Australia expanded their R&D facilities, transformed their old assembly buildings into a centre of excellence, hydrogen R&D, a test track and numerous other facilities. They've hedged their bets on innovation and engineering rather than just one dimensional assembly.

[FairmontGS]

They were making cars that only a few wanted. And what most people wanted was readily available from OS suppliers.

[rare ss]

I'm still waiting for these cheap imported cars we were promised..

My kingdom for a decently priced sedan that's fun to drive

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Thank you for your in depth answer but don't recall saying politicians made the decision for the manufacturers.
I just know because of them it may never return.

I don't think that "they" will never return because of our politicians alone. It has a lot more to do with our relatively high wages & other (govt) on-costs, which make it unviable to manufacture here.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Wretched

On the flip side - Toyota Australia expanded their R&D facilities, transformed their old assembly buildings into a centre of excellence, hydrogen R&D, a test track and numerous other facilities. They've hedged their bets on innovation and engineering rather than just one dimensional assembly.

Toyota was the only Aussie automaker which was financially viable post-GFC.

Both Ford & Holden were at the mercy of their US parents. Ford weren't permitted to build any LHD cars & therefore gain any real export marketing opportunities. GMH had huge export markets & were exporting more than 50% of there total production, but GM (US) took that off them during the GFC, replacing Aussie-built RWD cars with their FWD rubbish in those markets, leaving Holden the crumbs.

Toyota had no such constraints.

Result being that both had not enough volume sales to exist in such a small market.

Dr Terry

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

I don't think that "they" will never return because of our politicians alone. It has a lot more to do with our relatively high wages & other (govt) on-costs, which make it unviable to manufacture here.

Dr Terry

FFS !!!!.......never said that either.

[Warrenk]

GM caused the demise of Holden, not any other factor. GM were pulling out of the right drive market worldwide, so Holden were on borrowed time once the decision about the RH drive markets was made at the GM corporate office.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by b0son

Politicians didnt have much to do with it. We werent buying enough Fords, so they committed less and less to development and updates, so we bought even less. Once one manufacturer went, the critical mass wasnt there to support sourcing components here, and soon all the dominos start to fall. It's easy to say the government of the day were responsible for Holden walking away, but they had committed to a long term future under the previous government, then came cap in hand wanting even more. That was never going to fly.

They did 100%. The gradual reduction in tariffs, and the fact they never reviewed the need to keep them once the demand started to wear off, was essentially the biggest nail that lead to the demise.

That was the no 1 reason the local industry is now dead. Tariffs keep them viable. Once the tariffs had dropped to next to nothing was when the industry essentially died, it just took years for it to happen.

[rare ss]

Originally Posted by b0son

Politicians didnt have much to do with it. We werent buying enough Fords, so they committed less and less to development and updates, so we bought even less. Once one manufacturer went, the critical mass wasnt there to support sourcing components here, and soon all the dominos start to fall. It's easy to say the government of the day were responsible for Holden walking away, but they had committed to a long term future under the previous government, then came cap in hand wanting even more. That was never going to fly.

Seeds were sown long before the Libs getting the blame for the exit of GMH and the end of local manufacturing from Ford

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Button_car_plan

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

FFS !!!!.......never said that either.

When you said "I just know because of them it may never return.". I took "them" to be the politicians.

If that's not what you meant, I apologise & have no idea what you meant.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Warrenk

GM caused the demise of Holden, not any other factor. GM were pulling out of the right drive market worldwide, so Holden were on borrowed time once the decision about the RH drive markets was made at the GM corporate office.

I don't agree. The withdrawl from RHD markets didn't happen until around 2018/19, while the destruction of Holden's export markets was fully 10 years earlier, during the GFC.

Dr Terry

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They did 100%. The gradual reduction in tariffs, and the fact they never reviewed the need to keep them once the demand started to wear off, was essentially the biggest nail that lead to the demise.

That was the no 1 reason the local industry is now dead. Tariffs keep them viable. Once the tariffs had dropped to next to nothing was when the industry essentially died, it just took years for it to happen.

Tariffs alone wasn't going to be enough on their own, considering all of the other overheads they had to endure. Look at some of the ridiculous charges like high electricity costs & local govt rates, which have soared in recent years.

Dr Terry

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Dr Terry

Tariffs alone wasn't going to be enough on their own, considering all of the other overheads they had to endure. Look at some of the ridiculous charges like high electricity costs & local govt rates, which have soared in recent years.

Dr Terry

Are they also not politically made costs?

We had some of the cheapest electricity prices in the world not long ago. Now we have some of the most expensive, because of green driven agendas.

[Dr Terry]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Are they also not politically made costs?

We had some of the cheapest electricity prices in the world not long ago. Now we have some of the most expensive, because of green driven agendas.

Yes they are politically made costs, but not added by the same politicians that were blamed for the exit of Holden (Hockey, Abbott etc).

All of the others costs (rates, electricity etc. etc.) have been added by all 3 levels of Govt. (federal, state & local).

Dr Terry

[DFB FGXR6]

I remember where and when I heard the news Ford had decided to call it quits.

It was a Thursday morning, and I was mowing at my biggest client's property, in the front yard and listening to the local ABC talkback while I worked. As soon as the presenter said "breaking news, Ford have........", I knew exactly what was coming. And sure enough, that's what played out.

[XR Martin]

Didn't they do it just before Bathurst weekend?

[FTE217]

Cheez there was heaps of factors that contributed to the fall of Manufacturing here of the main 2.
Be it US run, Ford more so.
Not keeping up with the market trends.
Band aid remidies like the Daewoo partneship for Holden.
Ford EU product too expensive.
Sub standard product till they finally pulled their finger out all too late.
The last couple of gens by both were brilliant cars, if only they did that years before especially Ford.
Unions.
Not being pro active enough for Export Ford looking at you compared to Holden.
Government.

Dr Terry, Holden selling 50 to Export ? yer that so.
I knew ME was buying V8 commodores but it wasn't massive volumes, the G8 to US was a bomb.
What am I missing here ?

[arm79]

Originally Posted by rare ss

I'm still waiting for these cheap imported cars we were promised..

My kingdom for a decently priced sedan that's fun to drive

They are here... But with no Falcodores to provide the standard ratio of pricing and value against they just set the price as what is probably should have always been.

I was always told it cost as much to build a Corolla as it does a Falcon. But the only way a Corolla can make money is economies of scale and a much lower profit margin. Now they are simply making acceptable profit margins.

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

They did 100%. The gradual reduction in tariffs, and the fact they never reviewed the need to keep them once the demand started to wear off, was essentially the biggest nail that lead to the demise.

That was the no 1 reason the local industry is now dead. Tariffs keep them viable. Once the tariffs had dropped to next to nothing was when the industry essentially died, it just took years for it to happen.

Flipside question... Would the cars had been as good as they were if they had industry protection?

The reduction in tariffs was designed to foster competitiveness and engineering excellence. They were as good as they were because they had to compete with the world. But if they were the only thing affordable on the market there was a great chance they would be poorly developed lacklustre vehicles.

Pommie car manufacturing is a testament to that.

And say I that owning 2 piece of **** lemon BF vehicles.

[XRtowcar]

We should have been building Rangers but the free trade agreement with Thailand killed us.
We gave them free access and they gave us 40% taxes on imports to Thailand.

[CyberWasp]

Yes, Ford had the Territory all lined up to be exported to Thailand after the signing of the Free Trade Agreement.
Then Thailand slapped Tariffs on the import of vehicles with engines over 3.0lt.

Who makes deals like this and says or does nothing.

All this country has ever needed is a government that actually works for the best interests of its people. I don't know who they work for but it not the people that vote here. Both sides are the same.

[whynot]

There are a number of reasons why the Australian car industry died off; cost of local labour, high local indirect costs (e.g. electricity, taxes), one-sided trade agreements, and so forth.

Part of the problem is also the fragmentation of the market. To the point that if there was a factory producing Toyota Hilux - the most popular vehicle in 2022 by some margin - it would be struggling with low production volume.

Over the last 40 years of my working career, I have seen so much of Australian manufacturing shipped offshore. The reason is simple, excessive cost, which pulls down other secondary industries. But, I am at a loss as to how to prevent protective structures designed to foster Australian manufacturing from being held captive by various interest groups.

[Franco Cozzo]

Go read the productivity commission submissions from all the local automotive component suppliers dated around 2001/2002, they're available online, it gives you a serious insight into the issues with the free trade agreements with Thailand and some of the bull**** that went on with South Korea/Thailand/China.

The South Pacific Tyres submission is interesting.

[bungarra]

Ford and GM were trying to get out of manufacturing since the mid 70's and

Ford Australia: The Cars and the People That Built Them and Holden: Our Car 1856–2020 have information on the attempts to get out Australian manufacturing way before they ended.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by CyberWasp

Yes, Ford had the Territory all lined up to be exported to Thailand after the signing of the Free Trade Agreement.
Then Thailand slapped Tariffs on the import of vehicles with engines over 3.0lt.

Who makes deals like this and says or does nothing.

All this country has ever needed is a government that actually works for the best interests of its people. I don't know who they work for but it not the people that vote here. Both sides are the same.

Well said. Exactly what I was getting at.