Potential NSW L and P speed limits changed

[buddy92]

I'm finding it weird they can do 110 just because they have a adult in the car but P platers are stuck at 90km.... Adult or not the car is still going to re-act the same.

[MWTB]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I find it ironic that the same people who advocate driver discretion when talking about speed limits find it acceptible that L platers should be able to do speeds to match the rest of us.

I suppose all L platers should be able to do 255k/hr now as long as they believe it is safe to do so on a lonely freeway with no one else around...

Statistics show that learner drivers under instruction are far less likely to have an accident than a driver under 25 years old on their own.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Well I'm in Victoria and I did 110km/h on my Ls and I'm still alive.

Unfortunately for some.

Your missing the point, i dont have a problem with L platers doing 110 in a 110 zone, but some of us would have you believe that us experienced drivers should be able to do 110+ at our discretion.
With the topic of this thread in mind, it would therefore be acceptable for L platers to use the same discretion to prevent getting in anyones way.

Would you, when on your L's in a 110 zone feel safe if someone came up on you doing 140?
This is no different to the current situation where L platers are doing 80 and everyone else is approaching doing 110 isnt it?

For the record, i believe this new approach to L platers is actually positive, so long as everyone is content doing 110.

[Hayden1]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

I find it ironic that the same people who advocate driver discretion when talking about speed limits find it acceptible that L platers should be able to do speeds to match the rest of us.

I suppose all L platers should be able to do 255k/hr now as long as they believe it is safe to do so on a lonely freeway with no one else around...

Am I sensing obvious sarcasm? I hope I am.
According to you it must be a mystery how everyone else in this country has learnt how to drive while being allowed to do the same speeds as other full licensed drivers. I don't understand your irony nor do I believe it is SAFE to do 255km/h (or any speed in a piece of machinery that can weigh a couple of tonne) anywhere!
It's not speeding that is the major danger, nor is it the vehicle they are driving. It is the driver behind the wheel who makes the decisions on whether they follow the law or not. Relevence? Well the fact that learners are limited to a certain speed means they aren't able to learn how a vehicle behaves at higher speeds.
I don't understand how it is unacceptable for a learner to have the same rights on our roads as a fully licensed driver. How else are they going to learn? They aren't forced to do the speed, only if they are comfortable.

edit-
Sorry mate I saw your new post. I think you better word your posts better next time, or I better read them better. Now that I understand your previous post I think it has no relevance to this topic.

[Djrystofer]

Originally Posted by 82XD393.3v

now they need to do something with the oldies that drive up to 40kmph below the speed limit on the highways

Couldn't agree more.
Almost rear ended some old lady in a Corolla doing 75 in the OVERTAKING LANE a couple of weeks ago, and yes I know, should've had eyes on the road at all times.

But who expects a car to be doing 75 in the right lane? You shouldn't have to worry about that sort of thing.

[metalphreak]

You aren't allowed on the freeway in WA for the first phase of Ls (6months). Everything's changed in the last ten years though since I got my license. You should learn to operate a car in surface streets first then progress to highways.

[Keladry]

I never understood the 80km/h limit for learners in some states. It's proven that L platers have the lowest crash rate because they're supervised, surely it's better to practice those high speeds with someone else than by yourself for the first time? It's dangerous on one lane roads to have cars doing so much below, and on multi-lane roads the learner would basically have to stay in the left lane and so can't practice changing lanes.

[Gaz]

I think they at least corrected the issue WA had years ago... Could do 100km/h on your L's. Get your P's and you were limited to 80.

[noflac52]

Speed disparity has been proven to be one of the most dangerous thing on freeways. When vehicles travel at or near the same speed the danger of a collision diminishes markedly because lane changing and other manouvers can be executed more easily and safely.

I think that P platers should be able to travel at the speed of trucks and buses so that their speed is similar to lessen the chances of collisions as they need to use the same lanes. L platers when a certain level of competency has been reached and their instructors are confident of their ability to travel on freeways should be able to travel at the posted speed limit. This again will limit speed disparity between vehicles and also give the learner much needed experience. There should also be minimum speed limits for the faster lanes on multi lane highways for the same reason.

Also anyone who thinks that 110 klm/hr is fast should pull over and use the designated slow lane (regardless of your age) as you have exceeded the level of your ability at the time and are a liability to more competent drivers in the faster lanes.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by noflac52

Speed disparity has been proven to be one of the most dangerous thing on freeways. When vehicles travel at or near the same speed the danger of a collision diminishes markedly because lane changing and other manouvers can be executed more easily and safely.

"Proven" in some statistic somewhere? I'm afraid my experience in Europe, where there is even greater speed disparity, doesn't bear that out. Motorways enable those in the kerb lane to choose their speed and anyone who wants to pass them has the outside lane/s to use. That's the whole idea.

I've just spent 6 months lane-changing (with many others doing the same) at 140 or so past trucks doing 90 and it was quite easy and safe thanks. I'm still here on AFF to tell the tale, but now very nervous on Australian motorways where people are afraid to use speed to pass in case there's a camera down the road, so they all hover around each other for agonising long periods.

A whole heap of vehicles travelling at the same speed also has a prime chance of having a spectacular pile-up if one hits the brakes.

[noflac52]

Huh? No! proven in the real world I think you've missed the point here. I didn't say that any of your statements can't be done. I do them myself. A whole heap of vehicles travelling at the same speed is what we get every day and if drivers are competent to do so then there is not a higher percentage chance of a crash because they will be driving to conditions and leaving enough stopping room to suit the speed at which they are travelling. Which you have already pointed out with your previous posts about driving in europe

This is a much better scenario than one or two drivers using the faster lane but deciding to drive 10 or 15 klm slower than the posted speed limit but not moving over forcing all vehicles coming from behind to brake and move to a slower lane to get around them. This creates chaos in high traffic situations. Put one of those trucks doing 90 in the fast lane where you and everyone else are are doing 140 and see what chaos emerges.

I didn't say anything about not using speed to carry out an over taking manouver as a matter of fact I support the idea of not being on the wrong side of the road for any longer than is absolutely necessary when over taking but on the freeway it doesn't happen and my statements were about freeways and the freeflowing of the lanes and the way they are used which is the subject of the thread.
I honestly don't get the point of your post.

[new2ford]

That's okay, we're talking about different scenarios I guess. Yes the Australian problem of people hovering in the right lane is a real issue.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by new2ford

That's okay, we're talking about different scenarios I guess. Yes the Australian problem of people hovering in the right lane is a real issue.

And this of course is based on the assumption that all 110 and 100 zones are four lane or above where in fact the majory are just ordinary dual lane roads.

NSW does not actually stand for Newcastle Sydney Woollongong.

There are learners and P platers outside the "special" area........

[noflac52]

Just talking about freeways atm but I agree that most of our roads present a real problem for speed disparity and getting to your destination in a timely manner.

This begs the question. Surely higher levels of driver training are warranted?

Then we have a scenario where new drivers are able to travel safely at the same speed as the surrounding traffic alleviating the problem somewhat. Instead of learning on the job as many posts have alluded to with "lack of experience". I know real world experience can't be equalled but we can easily start them off at a much higher competency level than we do now rather than listen to the media and govt bleat about what a danger they are.
Atm its a bit like ground hog day.

[Trevor 57]

Originally Posted by noflac52

L platers when a certain level of competency has been reached and 'their instructors are confident of their ability to travel on freeways' should be able to travel at the posted speed limit.

those words are the very key to success.

When I was teaching people to drive I would never ever put them in a situation until they were ready for it, I used to start them of rural roads, then skirt the outside of town and as they grew in confidence I would bring them into the centre of town during quieter times then busy times, highway driving then freeway driving, even dirt road driving, I even used to get them to practice driving onto the dirt verge on the side of rural roads at speed then get them to bring the car back on safely, too many times young people over-correct in these situations and roll the car.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by flappist

Scruby is a rabid car hater.

His agenda is the restriction of privately owned motor vehicles to "valid reason" and type of vehicle to "required type". (e.g. weekend cruising is not a valid reason and Falcon GTs are not a required type)

He will do any and everything possible to make driving and ownership more difficult for car enthusiasts.

He's the bloke who tried to get jogging banned in Mosman (NSW) back in the 90's (92) as an alderman.

A few months ago, Mr Scruby saw 60 Minutes footage of Tani Ruckle jogging on the roads of Balmoral and promptly asked police to charge her. Mr Scruby said at the time: "If our police force accepts joggers on the road does that mean that runners should also wear helmets? Can they jog in a clearway? Maybe they should also make hand signals ..."

Ms Ruckle said: "Harold Scruby was so insistent that police fine me that the police eventually had to get the minister to release a statement to clarify the issue ... it's a bit weird isn't it?"

Ms Ruckle now has to use "suitable footpaths".

http://www.rollerblade.com.au/roller...-do-in-mosman/

Aside from 'walk dot com dot au', he's involved in AUSFLAG the change the flag mob etc and so on.
http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancou...asp?PageID=105

[buddy92]

Just seen on the news that they approved the speed limit change for L platers.

I'm still keen on what's happening with P platers, we stuck with 90 on reds or we change to?

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by buddy92

Just seen on the news that they approved the speed limit change for L platers.

I'm still keen on what's happening with P platers, we stuck with 90 on reds or we change to?

They're changing to 200 km/h for P platers so they can all get their rocks off on the new experience of driving before settling down to more orderly long term driving.

Hey I think some already do that?

[Falcon_Crazy]

As a regular commuter on F3, L platers restricted to below 100km/h means more trucks need to move into middle lane, which then forces more lane changes all round. And with gentle gradients and speed limiters, this can then cause tailbacks, which leads to the crazy overtaking moves (like ducking behind truck and undertaking before he can get back over).

When i was on my Ls, I was taken onto the F3 and allowed to drive up to 100km/h. I was taught control, lane changing - readin g traffic at higher speeds etc. My old man used to be a sales rep and was on highway all the time and he wanted me ready.

30km/h differences is simply too much on busy 3 lane freeways. 100km/h, in left lane, is suitable and safer.

[ltd]

News just in, Harold Scruby is also the founding flagpole-walloper at Ausflag, the Trotskyite commo's who want to change the flag and are ashamed that Fiji is getting a new flag before Australia.
Considering many have died/are dying under an Australian Flag, is it any wonder a serial ****** like Scruby is in everyone's face all the time trying to dishonour the fallen? He's never done anything for anyone but been a career narcissist; his term at Mosman council is evidence of this.
Just for fun I like to send him emails that say the following:

"Dear Harold, just thought I'd drop you a line to let you know that I witnessed somewhere, someone having fun and not listening to the likes of you at all."

Drives the inner totalitarian twat insane I tells ya.

[MattsDisturbed]

I'm from NSW but did alot of driving in VIC while on my L plates. I felt alot safer at 110 km/h on the Hume in Vic than doing 80 km/h on the Hume in NSW with B-Doubles barreling up my exhaust pipes with a closing speed of 20 -30 km/h.

If L-Platers don't feel comfortable doing the speed limit where it is higher than 80km/h the answer is simple: Don't venture onto those higher speed limit roads until you feel you are ready.

I hope these proposed changes happen because it will make learning to drive a safer and more enjoyable experience.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by MattsDisturbed

I'm from NSW but did alot of driving in VIC while on my L plates. I felt alot safer at 110 km/h on the Hume in Vic than doing 80 km/h on the Hume in NSW with B-Doubles barreling up my exhaust pipes with a closing speed of 20 -30 km/h.

If L-Platers don't feel comfortable doing the speed limit where it is higher than 80km/h the answer is simple: Don't venture onto those higher speed limit roads until you feel you are ready.

I hope these proposed changes happen because it will make learning to drive a safer and more enjoyable experience.

Just wondering about all the people who do not live in a city or town and ALL roads are 100km/h.

What do they do?

[brydie76]

Finally, some common sense. Wish they would consider raising the p plater limits to 110 as well too, it is still pretty scary to have trucks and such barreling past you- especially on a motorbike/scooter!!!! And without getting into semantics/arguments, if you have a crash at 90 or 110, the outcome is not going to be great in either case (know its an extra 30km/h, but either way, pretty high speed crashes in both cases)

Agree with the idea for driver training in the first post as well (not sure if this is going ahead too, can't find anything on the l plate sped change either?), when done right these things not only give you skills, but a good cautious mentality about going on the roads. Hopefully it is structured similar to the bike courses, they scare the crud out of you, but in a good way- very proactively cautious mentality now!!!

[OffRoadFalcon]

I hope this happens for all the L and P platers over there!

I find the L plater 100km/h limit in WA annoying enough, and to other drivers as well. On a lot of the roads here there's little opportunity for them to pass me as well.
I'll be so glad to get P plates so I can drive on 110 roads without having 6 cars behind me wanting to do 110!

I'll still get the ones who exceed the limit though...

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by ltd

Just for fun I like to send him emails that say the following:

"Dear Harold, just thought I'd drop you a line to let you know that I witnessed somewhere, someone having fun and not listening to the likes of you at all."

I like this:-)

Dear Harold, I snapped this driver bearing a big wide grin as he drove at 130km/h on the highway! We can't stand for this, we can't - do something Harold, do somethinnnngggg!!!!

You know, what'd really pee him off right about now, would be a particular brands website here in AUS, that details each of its models 0-100km/h times, AND the 'top-speed' of each! Shock horror disgust - bring on the TAC, call equal opportunity, call someone damnit - think of the children!! (They do the same in EU etc without tears and PC crap).

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by flappist

Just wondering about all the people who do not live in a city or town and ALL roads are 100km/h.

What do they do?

We tend not to exist.

And there's always the paddock!

[Fev]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

I like this:-)

Dear Harold, I snapped this driver bearing a big wide grin as he drove at 130km/h on the highway! We can't stand for this, we can't - do something Harold, do somethinnnngggg!!!!

You know, what'd really pee him off right about now, would be a particular brands website here in AUS, that details each of its models 0-100km/h times, AND the 'top-speed' of each! Shock horror disgust - bring on the TAC, call equal opportunity, call someone damnit - think of the children!! (They do the same in EU etc without tears and PC crap).

What happens if he's so blind that he thinks you're being serious? Then we're all screwed hahaha