has holden trumped us again

[rodderz]

the $$ is driving the mags these days. There is less money in magazine sales now because of the internet. If a company throws cars or $$ at a mag to write a good story, they'll write it with good favour.

I know a guy who has been editor of the music publication "The Buzz" for years and years and is close to ceasing operations as most stories and band profiles are found on websites and myspace pages free of charge, they cant compete with it

[xr6per]

Speaking of Wheels mag, March 08 issue. The active safety program story. They make a test to find the safest car overall. For some reason the need a benchmark, don't know why they can't just compare the cars and name a winner. Let's pick the Falcon so it can't win : "YOU'D think a performance car would take on a bunch of popular regular cars and hurl them to the floor. Overall XR6 did just that... but individually, it didn't.
If it hadn't been exempt from competing, the XR6 would have won WASP overall (comfortably with a two-point lead from the Mazda3)"
That is what Wheels wrote about it, do you think they would ever exclude a Holden if it was to win ? And next day I read in Courier mail that Mazda3 is Australias safest car.
Ford have again been short changed by the media and that is what most people get to hear about it, no mention that Ford XR6 actually was the safest overall.
And as a prev post said, Sat after the Melbourne motorshow there were BIG pictures and stories about a Holden concept and a limited special model, and then a small picture and a mention about the FG Falcon. The Holden camp would have a big grin on their face, yet again they get all the limelight.
Pre VE the Commodore was a rebuild Opel Omega with a Chev engine, oh so Australian!!! The only true Aussie car was the Falcon but Holden still got away with making everyone think that Commodore was the true Aussie car.
Another Aussie icon, the Holden ute, who invented that concept ?

[vanman_75]

a jingle that goes ,how unaustralian - insert astra / daewoo ..how un australian- insert pontiac / commo .. how unaustralian etc get john williamson to crank it out lol

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by swan_ford

wheels are totally bias towards holden... its just the camera angle and things they have done to make it look outstanding and then just slaped a few pics of the new falcon in

Maybe it is just the fact that Holden and HSV have their act together in regards to their dealings with the media while Ford and FPV are useless.

[coledog]

HOLDEN VS FORD PEOPLE RAVE ABOUT LOOKS BUT WHAT ABOUT PERFOMANCE
2008 auto Falcon has 190 kw vs commodore 180 kw and torque falcon 383nm against 330nm that is a lot of pulling power. At the end of the day give me the big car with the power to tow and performance to go!

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by xr6per

The Holden camp would have a big grin on their face, yet again they get all the limelight.
Pre VE the Commodore was a rebuild Opel Omega with a Chev engine, oh so Australian!!! The only true Aussie car was the Falcon but Holden still got away with making everyone think that Commodore was the true Aussie car.
Another Aussie icon, the Holden ute, who invented that concept ?

Maybe XA onwards, but every Falcon before that was an American design.

Didn't help the public's perception on the Falcon's heritage either when the first V8 was the XR GT, and marketed with the "Mustang bred 289ci".

Not having a shot mate, just sick of people whinging about the Australian heritage of Falcons, and Commodores. Everyone has an opinion on what they think is more Aussie, but the fact of the matter is they're both Australian cars.

Unlike other cars Holden have, the Commodore isn't simply a rebadge. It was redesigned to suit Australian conditions, much like early Falcons really.

[StAndArdAU]

Put in a request to get Kochie onto them!! haha, seems to be the trend these days...

but seriously, I think seeing as they've already missed the boat on launch marketing, they just have to make sure the FG really is the car everyone wants buy, isnt substandard, and that FPV increase the power figures to ridiculous heights, while selling all models at an affordable cost thats not overboard. which by the looks the prices are shaping up to be quite good on the Ford range, cant wait to see the FPV prices though.

[xr6per]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Maybe XA onwards, but every Falcon before that was an American design.

Didn't help the public's perception on the Falcon's heritage either when the first V8 was the XR GT, and marketed with the "Mustang bred 289ci".

Not having a shot mate, just sick of people whinging about the Australian heritage of Falcons, and Commodores. Everyone has an opinion on what they think is more Aussie, but the fact of the matter is they're both Australian cars.

Unlike other cars Holden have, the Commodore isn't simply a rebadge. It was redesigned to suit Australian conditions, much like early Falcons really.

That's right, and even the XD was build on the german Ford Granada. I did not mean the older Falcon's, I was talking about more recent EB onwards but failed to mention that.
I know that a lot of work went in to suit the Commodore to Australien condition, but I allways felt the Falcon (EB + ) was more Australian than simular Commodores at the time, eg. Australien design instead a car based on a German car.
Just feel Ford does not allways get the credit they deserve, but their marketing is also far behind Holdens.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by EviLkarL

Come on guys, this is a Ford forum but wake up and smell the coffee. Fact is Holden is whooping Ford into the ground at the moment.
Now I am true blue blooded as anyone else here. In fact I bought a BFGT brand new in late 2006 and I love it.
That said I am not blind to see the facts.

1. Holden is blowing Ford out of the water at the moment in terms of big news stories of future cars and projects on the drawing boards. The coupe, sales to USA, New models.
2. The media release of the FG Falcon was as interesting as dog poop. IMHO the FG is nothing new.

Take that with current Ford V8 Supercars drivers running each other off the track, Holdens current #1 plate holder in the category and so many other things that Holden are doing, its no wonder my next car will most certainly be a Holden.

For me its one thing to support a brand for over 30 years both in racing categories and at the dealership. Its quiet another to stay loyal with the current trend.

What I want to hear from Ford is hype about a GTHO release, new ideas and innovations, support for the aussie car market by manufacturing out own cars here and revamps of the entire dealership attitude and service.

If you swap your Ford for a Holden, because its a better product thats fair enough. But 'switching sides' cos of whats going on in V8 Supercars and because of some shiny show cars is a pretty silly fan boy thing to do. :

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by xr6per

That's right, and even the XD was build on the german Ford Granada. I did not mean the older Falcon's, I was talking about more recent EB onwards but failed to mention that.

Fair enough.

I agree in that case that Falcons are more Aussie.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by xr6per

That's right, and even the XD was build on the german Ford Granada. I did not mean the older Falcon's, I was talking about more recent EB onwards but failed to mention that.
I know that a lot of work went in to suit the Commodore to Australien condition, but I allways felt the Falcon (EB + ) was more Australian than simular Commodores at the time, eg. Australien design instead a car based on a German car.
Just feel Ford does not allways get the credit they deserve, but their marketing is also far behind Holdens.

The XD may have shared a few styling hints from the Granada like the headlights, but it was on the XC platform with a unique body, it shared no panels, unlike the VB Commodore which was mostly Opel.

[BHDOGS]

Why not have an advert jingle for ford that sings "anything holden can do we can do better but we dont want bogan people driving our cars so we dont tell you about it" p.s. Holden smells

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by BHDOGS

Why not have an advert jingle for ford that sings "anything holden can do we can do better but we dont want bogan people driving our cars so we dont tell you about it" p.s. Holden smells

Incredible juvenile, but I like it.

It made me smile

[Bud Bud]

Originally Posted by Brett3158

Football ,meat pies kangaroos and xxxxxx cars.

Why cant Ford come up with a catchy tune even if its 30 years down the track.

They did thirty years or so ago, and it is still one of the best Ford adds I can ever remember.

Who remembers the "Size it up, size it up, because when you do Ford Falcon fits you". Add?

Was a cracker in it's day!

[weenie]

Originally Posted by WAForce8

I keep hearing people say that customers don't pay attention to magazines and the articles within. What a load of rubbish. Anyone who thinks that people don't read and absorb these articles is a fool. Those who say that real buyers go to dealers also forget that car dealerships are one of the least trusted information resources there is. If wheels is one eyed (which it is) then your local dealer must be cyclops himself.

Ford Australia needs to wake up and show the ENTIRE Australian public that they believe they have a superior product. There lack of confidence in advertising every positive aspect to all consumer groups is what is killing the brand here. Not Ford US or buying or selling JAG or Landrover or anything else.

Spoolman was absolutely right.

Ford and FPV if you are listening
"BUILD THE BLOODY BRAND!"

Being a supporter of both brands, i would have to say that fords performance arm changed its name too often to have the brand recognition that hsv enjoys. The other thing to remember is that while ford dumped the v8 in the 80s, holden kept it going & slowly but surely built up a following. I dont know the answer either, its like they have no confidence all of the sudden. Compared to the ba launch, the fg doesnt seem to make a ripple. You would also be suprised how many people by cars from reviews in magazines & online. You can tell by how many people carry on about an extra airbag or a half star extra safety rating, or .1 of a second quicker to 100. Hell my sister in law tells me how their new liberty is symetrical & makes it safer. When i questioned her about it , she said it meant that it weighed the same front to back

[gozza]

How can people take this so personally - Holden are beating US? - Do you own the company ?

If you like a Ford buy it and drive it

Simple

[GK]

Originally Posted by ELtim

You're joking right?

The wheel flares on the Commy's are what turns me off of them the most!

They look okay filled out on the SS etc, but look woeful on the stock Omega. I am glad Ford didn't go this route with the FG. Imagine if they did. Wheels would trumpet to the whole wide world that Ford copied Holden.

GK

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Bud Bud

They did thirty years or so ago, and it is still one of the best Ford adds I can ever remember.

Who remembers the "Size it up, size it up, because when you do Ford Falcon fits you". Add?

Was a cracker in it's day!

Wasn't their a jingle "Ford is the going thing" in the 60's???

Still doesn't beat the "Hey Charger" ads or the Coyote and Roadrunner for the Plymouth Roadrunner ads.

What about the "Mopar or no car" song?

In the end ignore the fanboys. 89% of Falcon Sales are fleet so the important thing is that the Falcon is faster, torquier, safer and more fuel efficient than the Commodore a WHICH IT IS!

Holden can build all the Monaros and other loss leaders they want because they are just bleeding more money while peeny pinching Ford will turn a tidy profit and still make something for the enthusiast.

[4Vman]

Originally Posted by weenie

Being a supporter of both brands, i would have to say that fords performance arm changed its name too often to have the brand recognition that hsv enjoys.

Holden have changed their performance name as often as Ford have....

Brock/HDT to HSV, FTE to FPV...

[Fev]

motor and wheels may be biased but atleast holden is getting some new idea's and rides out there.. when was the last time Ford came up with a cool special ride? The Craig Lowndes special BF? pffft please.. the W427 and Coupe'60 look absolutely awesome, although the coupe is much better. Ford need new marketing directors, designers the whole shaboozle.. their just lookin tired and old..

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Holden have changed their performance name as often as Ford have....

Brock/HDT to HSV, FTE to FPV...

The problem is Fords change is very recent and its impact is obvious right now, as opposed to HDT to HSV.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Fev

motor and wheels may be biased but atleast holden is getting some new idea's and rides out there.. when was the last time Ford came up with a cool special ride? The Craig Lowndes special BF? pffft please.. the W427 and Coupe'60 look absolutely awesome, although the coupe is much better. Ford need new marketing directors, designers the whole shaboozle.. their just lookin tired and old..

The last cool special ride Ford came up with was the Territory. The've been selling between 1000-2000 a month for the last 4-5 years. The Lowndes ute was a smart way to brand value packs on an outgoing model.
The Coupe 60 is a pipe dream that isnt going to happen any time soon. The W427? HSV have enough of a fanbase and a crate engine that will make that model succesful (enough) but it wont make big money for anyone.
How are a large coupe and a sedan with even more power fantastic new ideas?

[xr6per]

In yestedays Sunday mail there was a writeup about the Mondeo by Stuart Scott ( he allways have something negative to say about Ford's ).
He ends the story with this : " Also on the minus side, the Mondeo is hardly a household name in Australia and it's track record isn't good: Ford's efforts to sell previous versions came to nothing "
Well, he is doing his bit to try to make it fail, give the car a change to prove itself first. I mean, he really had nothing bad to say about the car and did mention how it is a hot seller in Europe and is regarded as a worthy rival to cars like BMW 3-series over there. So why does he need to give it a parting shot like that ?

[DanielXR8]

Why the fixation with comparing Commodore sales with Falcon? Both brands have seen a decline in real sales in Australia to the point now where their market share is a fraction of what it was even five years ago. To say one troubled brand is competing well with the other is to see who is racing to be last. It’s simply pointless.

Yes Ford Aust is smart in saving money and making the most of what they have, but that only goes so far. Basically they have reached that point now. Sales must increase and by a good order of units for Ford US to be bothered funding ongoing manufacturing in Australia. When Falcon sales nose dive to January 08 numbers again (not if) for any number of reasons, some we know now like petrol prices and others that will become evident during this new models production life you have to ask what planet some of you live on to see a Focus as the saviour of local production.

Face it the Focus will have to be one hell of a popular seller to save local production. So good that it sells in numbers well above what any Focus can pull now. Such a great pull that people will give up their Mazda’s, Toyotas and aspirational Euro brands to buy the new centuries Ford Laser, not to mention the cheap and cheerful Korean and Chinese cars competiting in that segment by then as well. Not saying the car won’t be good, but common sense says Ford is too much on the nose with too many punters to pull off another Laser story. The market has changed and Ford hasn’t seen, much less adapted quickly enough to those changes.

Who thinks that Toyota would let Ford succeed anyway? Heck if the Focus takes off, expect some bloody cheap Toyotas for sale. Same for Honda and every brand that can drop prices. They will not simply let Ford gain market share because they feel sorry for the end of Falcon!

When you look at the competition in that market today in that class of car, Fords track record on build quality and customer service, the dealer network and the fact that Ford cars go through cycles of being very good and then cost cutted to the point of being very bad, you have to ask why the Focus is suddenly going to save them.

Fords Australia needs as much engineering as it can get and an export niche market to survive. Ford US put it on life support when it did not give Ford Aust the lead on the new RWD platform and again refused to let the Falcon be exported in any sort of numbers with the steering wheel on either side.

The rest is PR to make you feel better. Ford will be an importer, because that’s the only thing that makes sense for them right now. Only a change of heart in Dearborn about exports from Australia can turn that boat around. Everything else is at best medium term thinking with no long term solution.

Hey I know it’s a Ford forum so please feel free to bag me out about it. I don’t like it, but I refuse to wear Blue Tinted Ford Spectacles that spin every flip and flop of Ford into a good news story. Ford wrote this chapter in their history when in the 90’s they didn’t recognise the market and their customer base was changing. Holden made the same mistake, but their exports are saving their right now. Argue about what they make on exports, but at least the GM management had some kind of vision for their Australian arm. Ford has no exports worth mentioning as far as volume goes and the engineering contracts are great, but without local manufacturing, inevitably the local talent and skills will off shore over time to be closer to where this stuff will be made.

If they turn a new leaf tomorrow, restructure the dealer network and became the most customer and quality focused company in Australia, I would say, maybe they had a chance of saving local production. Thing is they aren’t doing everything that needs to be done and the clock is ticking. Ford Australia need to be brilliant at everything they do right now and lets face it – they never have done that before. The best thing we can do as a Ford community is send the message loud and clear that we want Ford and its dealers and partners to do better. Near enough isn’t going to make it. Certainly an American engineered Falcon in z depressed large car market and a Euro engineered Focus, both with some local tweaking and a ton of imported content, won't help much. At best it might put off the inevitable for a few more years.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Holden have changed their performance name as often as Ford have....

Brock/HDT to HSV, FTE to FPV...

Somehow the Holden brand sticks in the minds of kids. My eldest son, who is seven came home the other day and announced he wanted to design and sell cars. "What brand" I asked.

He gave it some thought and said he wanted to sell several brands. Ok I asked which ones". "Ferrari's, Holdens and Mazdas". Now we have had Fords since he was born and two Mazdas. He sees a Ford badge on the back of our Terri every school day and we have owned a GT and XR8. Never had a Holden or Ferrari (worse luck) in the driveway. He picked them over a brand he knows we have.

The Mazda is interesting too. My kids rave about the Mazda 6 MPS we have, but hardly even noticed when I changed the XR8 to a GT.

Somehow in his head Holden is more cool. Ford just doesn't register with him, even though I think the GT was a great looking car and the Terri for that matter. *shrug*.

[LeadFoot81]

Time to lose the kid Daniel, hes a lost cause.



j/k

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by xr6per

Speaking of Wheels mag, March 08 issue. The active safety program story. They make a test to find the safest car overall. For some reason the need a benchmark, don't know why they can't just compare the cars and name a winner. Let's pick the Falcon so it can't win : "YOU'D think a performance car would take on a bunch of popular regular cars and hurl them to the floor. Overall XR6 did just that... but individually, it didn't.
If it hadn't been exempt from competing, the XR6 would have won WASP overall (comfortably with a two-point lead from the Mazda3)"
That is what Wheels wrote about it, do you think they would ever exclude a Holden if it was to win ? And next day I read in Courier mail that Mazda3 is Australias safest car.
Ford have again been short changed by the media and that is what most people get to hear about it, no mention that Ford XR6 actually was the safest overall.
And as a prev post said, Sat after the Melbourne motorshow there were BIG pictures and stories about a Holden concept and a limited special model, and then a small picture and a mention about the FG Falcon. The Holden camp would have a big grin on their face, yet again they get all the limelight.
Pre VE the Commodore was a rebuild Opel Omega with a Chev engine, oh so Australian!!! The only true Aussie car was the Falcon but Holden still got away with making everyone think that Commodore was the true Aussie car.
Another Aussie icon, the Holden ute, who invented that concept ?

First thing, I wouldn't call the XR6 a performance car by any means. A tarted up Falcon XT would be a better way to describe it.

As for the Wheels article, I actually would take it as a compliment that the Falcon is to be used as a benchmark for the WASP, it shows it is a car that can compete in all categories. I think too many people here need to remove the tin foil hats. Wheels is no more biased than any other mag. Anyone who thinks so is just fooling themselves. It may just be that the HSV/Holden products are more popular in turn sells more mags. No one remember Wheels taking a BA XR6T to Europe to show it off to the Euros? Of course no one does, everyone finds it easier to blame others for the half assed efforts shown by Ford of late.

What I have read out of Wheels, the BA/BF would win their comparos many of the times and rightly so, it was a much better car than the VY/VZ. However the VE has come out with a decent car, taking it up to the Falcon and wow, what do you know, it proves to be a better one in a lot of ways. Expected really though, I mean the VE isn't just a reskin but a whole new car. It was competiting with BF, and lets face it, was running on a 4 to 5 year old platform, dating back even further for some areas. However Wheels did not completly bag the falcon, they simply stated the VE was a better car in many areas. As for the FPV cars, well in all honesty the F6 is the only one that could take it to HSV. FPV have been a big disappointment since their inception. The 20k premium price tag is a bit rich. The VE HSV isn't just a stripe and sticker package, it actually is a decent range of cars. FPV could learn a lot from them. A sticker package and flimsy starter button just don't cut the mustard anymore.

Ford really have no one else to blame for their current position.
They cut the V8 out for 10 years in turn driving their fan base to Holden for a V8. Many of who have never returned. They then hang themselves with the AU. BA arrives with the potential for good product, quality lets them down and follows them to BF2.

Now they finally have some decent products their marketing has let them down. Who knows about their cars? The Mondeo is a kick butt car, like the Focus and Fiesta. Holden and Toyota use their marketing effectively and saturate it with their cars. How many VE, Aurion and Corolla ads were there and still are?

I would like Ford to bounce back, but I am not going to feel sorry for them and start blaming magazines. They have to grow up themselves and get their product out there. I hope the FG is a start of this, a good QUALITY vehicle.

[xe351]

Originally Posted by The_Fantastic_Ford

Time to lose the kid Daniel, hes a lost cause.



j/k

agreed, make it look like an accident :evil3: , lol, just jokes

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by DanielXR8

Face it the Focus will have to be one hell of a popular seller to save local production. So good that it sells in numbers well above what any Focus can pull now. Such a great pull that people will give up their Mazda’s, Toyotas and aspirational Euro brands to buy the new centuries Ford Laser, not to mention the cheap and cheerful Korean and Chinese cars competiting in that segment by then as well. Not saying the car won’t be good, but common sense says Ford is too much on the nose with too many punters to pull off another Laser story. The market has changed and Ford hasn’t seen, much less adapted quickly enough to those changes.

Ford will be exporting the Focus to South Africa and into Asia, they aren't relying on it to sell in massive numbers here in Australia to make it viable, but they do expect to sell in greater numbers than the current one does. Just using up the excess capacity helps save a lot of money in overheads.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by xe351

agreed, make it look like an accident :evil3: , lol, just jokes

Well I could blame the BA handbrake.