W427 = profitable??

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by Peuty

By your logic, HSV or FPV shouldn't even exist. Instead people should be spending thirty grand on an XT and spending up big at Herrods.

So many haters.

I never disputed the merits behind buying an FPV or HSV. If merely identifying the fact (for cost measurement purposes) that any HSV/FPV starts life as a base model makes it more logical to pimp an XT than buy a GT, then I'm lost for words because it doesn't make sense. You cannot build your own GT equivalent with an XT shell unless you can somehow get all the parts at cost price. (I read recently that Ford wants $23,000 alone for a new FG XR Boss 290!) For this reason, I'll take an FPV thanks. However, food for thought, what would win: A W427 or an XT shell with $120,000 put into it?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

However, food for thought, what would win: A W427 or an XT shell with $120,000 put into it?

not an xt shell but cat600 tipped about $130k (his words) into 'terminator' (ts50) and walked away with not much less than 600rwkw. i believe its fully engineered also.

not sure where i'm going with that. obviously for 150k you can buy a factory weapon or you can build your own personalised weapon. his next project, which as far as performance goes will still kill the wd40, but will scrape in a fair bit under the 150k i believe.

for those who don't know about the resident mad man, check out the 'aluminator' thread in the fpv performance section.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by prydey

not an xt shell but cat600 tipped about $130k (his words) into 'terminator' (ts50) and walked away with not much less than 600rwkw. i believe its fully engineered also.

not sure where i'm going with that. obviously for 150k you can buy a factory weapon or you can build your own personalised weapon. his next project, which as far as performance goes will still kill the wd40, but will scrape in a fair bit under the 150k i believe.

for those who don't know about the resident mad man, check out the 'aluminator' thread in the fpv performance section.

So how did it go in the crash testing?

Did the emissions comply when he tested it at -10 and 45 degrees in barometic pressures from 950 to 1060 KPa?

The 100,000km stress and fatigue tests, how did they go?

How was stability at 250km/h?

[prydey]

Originally Posted by flappist

So how did it go in the crash testing?

Did the emissions comply when he tested it at -10 and 45 degrees in barometic pressures from 950 to 1060 KPa?

The 100,000km stress and fatigue tests, how did they go?

How was stability at 250km/h?

hey, i agree. i was just replying to another post regarding what you can achieve by tipping similar amounts of money into a car. whilst you may achieve similar or better results in some areas there are a lot of other areas that you can't match factory r & d.

[4Vman]

The 120K into an XT shell example shows exactly how much some understand about;
1) ADR design and compliance.....
2) Synergy of design and performance..
3) how the majority of consumers view Factory V Aftermarket from an integrity point of view...

[dave289]

I could not access the link in post 1 ,so cannot say If It was profitable or not.but as a member of the public and a ford supporter( or even if I was a holden supporter) who really cares if it was or not. The fact that they had a go and built the thing is what they should be credited for. they probably thought they would have made a profit and would have if they sold 427 of them. I thought they would have sold more than the 139 or so mentioned earlier but obviuosly even the holden crew could'nt part with that much cash for commodore with a big engine, and looking at it that way it does seem like huge ask for a commodore. so while they may have not made money they have made a reputation ,one of building the biggest production size engine in an ozzie built car. this game is built on reputation just like we are ford fans for pasts legends that they have built. while one might own a lesser version we often aspire to owning the top version even though we may never do so. so what I am trying to say is bottom end cars are sold because of such cars, and people (like the young dude) aspiring to own the better version down the track.

[Dave R]

Originally Posted by 4Vman

The 120K into an XT shell example shows exactly how much some understand about;
1) ADR design and compliance.....
2) Synergy of design and performance..
3) how the majority of consumers view Factory V Aftermarket from an integrity point of view...

This is just common sense, however it is totally irrelevant to the point. To date I have not seen an XT with over $100k put into it and probably never will.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

This is just common sense, however it is totally irrelevant to the point. To date I have not seen an XT with over $100k put into it and probably never will.

Ever seen a $2000 new Falcon 500 170ci 3 on the tree with 30 times its new value spent on it?

Just go to any Ford day and look for fake GTs.....

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by flappist

So how did it go in the crash testing?

Did the emissions comply when he tested it at -10 and 45 degrees in barometic pressures from 950 to 1060 KPa?

The 100,000km stress and fatigue tests, how did they go?

How was stability at 250km/h?

Agree with all of the above...... the car (TerminatorS) is not close to production spec.

The FG XR8 project (AluminaTTor) I am doing at the moment however would be a better comparo and would cream the WD427 at around half the cost, and would pass all your above mentioned initial precursors.

That is not cheap talk either.

Daniel

[Chopped]

Admit it - If it had a Ford badge on it we'd all be whacking ourselves over it.

Re building something faster for cheaper, yes of course you can but WHY the hell would you pick a BIG, HEAVY Falcon or Commodore body to start with ?!!

[CFOUR]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Admit it - If it had a Ford badge on it we'd all be whacking ourselves over it.

Re building something faster for cheaper, yes of course you can but WHY the hell would you pick a BIG, HEAVY Falcon or Commodore body to start with ?!!

Why would some 1 pick a good looking spacious freakishly practical Australian icon?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by dave289

I could not access the link in post 1 ,so cannot say If It was profitable or not.but as a member of the public and a ford supporter( or even if I was a holden supporter) who really cares if it was or not. The fact that they had a go and built the thing is what they should be credited for. they probably thought they would have made a profit and would have if they sold 427 of them. I thought they would have sold more than the 139 or so mentioned earlier but obviuosly even the holden crew could'nt part with that much cash for commodore with a big engine, and looking at it that way it does seem like huge ask for a commodore. so while they may have not made money they have made a reputation ,one of building the biggest production size engine in an ozzie built car. this game is built on reputation just like we are ford fans for pasts legends that they have built. while one might own a lesser version we often aspire to owning the top version even though we may never do so. so what I am trying to say is bottom end cars are sold because of such cars, and people (like the young dude) aspiring to own the better version down the track.

Holden have had great success by not bothering with a profit and "having a go".

You just need to look at how much money they are losing to see its worked beautifully for them. Who needs profits when you can build cars that 13 year old bogans whack over.

Ford may not be building these types of cars at the moment but they are not in any position to be taking risks that may result in them burning money. Holden can't seem to grasp that concept.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Holden have had great success by not bothering with a profit and "having a go".

You just need to look at how much money they are losing to see its worked beautifully for them. Who needs profits when you can build cars that 13 year old bogans whack over.

Ford may not be building these types of cars at the moment but they are not in any position to be taking risks that may result in them burning money. Holden can't seem to grasp that concept.

Huh, what are you talking about?

2008 Ford AU lost $274 million!!
2008 Holden lost $70 million which a included one-off charge of $76 million decomissioning the Family II plant

[Dave R]

^^ alot of that was probably due to FG. What did Holden make in '06 when they launched VE?

Originally Posted by Chopped

Re building something faster for cheaper, yes of course you can but WHY the hell would you pick a BIG, HEAVY Falcon or Commodore body to start with ?!!

Because Ford/Holden > Jap crap.

[trippytaka]

I don't know... that's really stumpe me. I guess there really wasn't all that much developmnt... A few things I am thinking of:

- Would the crash tests of a the standard Common-whore been used, or did they have to crash the 427 cars as is?

- How much engine development would have been needed to meet ADR emmisions for such a big lug?

- The suspension etc would be pretty standard, not too much $ there.

- How much develpoment was needed in driveline?

Thinking about it, the man hours (designing etc), the marketing, wouldn't have aded up to 21m. Interesting. Certainly food for thought.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

I don't know... that's really stumpe me. I guess there really wasn't all that much developmnt... A few things I am thinking of:

- Would the crash tests of a the standard Common-whore been used, or did they have to crash the 427 cars as is?

- How much engine development would have been needed to meet ADR emmisions for such a big lug?

- The suspension etc would be pretty standard, not too much $ there.

- How much develpoment was needed in driveline?

Thinking about it, the man hours (designing etc), the marketing, wouldn't have aded up to 21m. Interesting. Certainly food for thought.

I think the answer would actually be more than 21m. It's the getting bumper right so as not to hurt pedestrians in a collision, it's whether the dry sump explodes when having a frontal collision, it's the durability testing for the clutch and whether it shudders after 15 hard launches..... Ford got it wrong with the f6 manual on launch - look at how they were hammered for the clutch failures in the press cars. Testing and compliance costs a lot more than most think. For example - how much do you think it costs all up to hire a track for a day privately, take 2 or 3 test cars out there, and then pay for a few v8sc drivers and a heap of engineers to try things out? And that would be just 1 day. Add everything up and i see 21m going very fast to go very fast!

[4Vman]

Some simple mathematics here:
139 x 155K = 21,545,000.

Ok, from that comes luxury car sales tax, and the price (cost) of a GTS...

21 Mil rapidly evaporates to about 12mill for starters...

Then remove 139 x the cost of the kit of parts..

I can tell you there was close to a mil all up in the bodykit development alone.......

When you break things down its easy to see where the money goes.

[Chopped]

Yep they should just stick to the "highly profitable sticker specials" in the future and why the hell do HSV keep changing the wheel designs with each new model (that must cost heaps too), can't they just put some new body stripes on it instead.
Silly Holden / Clever Ford.

[BOSHOG]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Yep they should just stick to the "highly profitable sticker specials" in the future and why the hell do HSV keep changing the wheel designs with each new model (that must cost heaps too), can't they just put some new body stripes on it instead.
Silly Holden / Clever Ford.

how many threads have i read where members here bag out ford for pumping out the same rims?

i give HSV credit for putting a product out like this, because every 15yr old bogan that "jacks off to it" will be a 25yr old holden fan in 10yrs time thats pumping money into holden and not ford. sometimes it takes some time to see a return on projects like this, and even then it wont show up on the spreadsheet for this project, but itll be there

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by Chopped

Yep they should just stick to the "highly profitable sticker specials" in the future and why the hell do HSV keep changing the wheel designs with each new model (that must cost heaps too), can't they just put some new body stripes on it instead.
Silly Holden / Clever Ford.

Bahahaha!

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

I think the answer would actually be more than 21m. It's the getting bumper right so as not to hurt pedestrians in a collision, it's whether the dry sump explodes when having a frontal collision, it's the durability testing for the clutch and whether it shudders after 15 hard launches..... Ford got it wrong with the f6 manual on launch - look at how they were hammered for the clutch failures in the press cars. Testing and compliance costs a lot more than most think. For example - how much do you think it costs all up to hire a track for a day privately, take 2 or 3 test cars out there, and then pay for a few v8sc drivers and a heap of engineers to try things out? And that would be just 1 day. Add everything up and i see 21m going very fast to go very fast!

All very true. I agree. Wasn't the whole point of things like the 427 to be a branding exercise? They are expected to run at a loss even if they sell through. Right?

Speaking of which, wasn't the Veyron loss about a mill per car? I remember reading they had something like 50 engineers working on the gearbox alone!

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Brazen

Huh, what are you talking about?

2008 Ford AU lost $274 million!!
2008 Holden lost $70 million which a included one-off charge of $76 million decomissioning the Family II plant

Holden export and make probably twice as many cars a year than Ford do, yet they still can't make a profit and haven't for 3-4 years, so obviously their special projects are doing nothing but adding to the red ink. Especially stuff like the Crewman, AWD Commodores/utes etc. Those projects did nothing but loss them money.

If you take out Fords one off costs last financial year they lost around $40 million, so they aren't doing as bad as the figures show.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by BOSHOG

how many threads have i read where members here bag out ford for pumping out the same rims?

i give HSV credit for putting a product out like this, because every 15yr old bogan that "jacks off to it" will be a 25yr old holden fan in 10yrs time thats pumping money into holden and not ford. sometimes it takes some time to see a return on projects like this, and even then it wont show up on the spreadsheet for this project, but itll be there

I'm a bit sceptical of that. Look how many different concept cars and hero cars Holden have built over the last 10 years, and Commodore sales are the lowest they have been since the 80's. Of course there's a million other factors involved but maybe its not the future sales attraction some people think it is.

At the end of the day it comes down to making a good product that sells cars.

[tex]

Originally Posted by trippytaka

I don't know... that's really stumpe me. I guess there really wasn't all that much developmnt... A few things I am thinking of:

- Would the crash tests of a the standard Common-whore been used, or did they have to crash the 427 cars as is?

- How much engine development would have been needed to meet ADR emmisions for such a big lug?

- The suspension etc would be pretty standard, not too much $ there.

- How much develpoment was needed in driveline?

Thinking about it, the man hours (designing etc), the marketing, wouldn't have aded up to 21m. Interesting. Certainly food for thought.

There's no food for thought there, all there is is dribble from someone NFI.

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'm a bit sceptical of that. Look how many different concept cars and hero cars Holden have built over the last 10 years, and Commodore sales are the lowest they have been since the 80's. Of course there's a million other factors involved but maybe its not the future sales attraction some people think it is.

At the end of the day it comes down to making a good product that sells cars.

Yet it's been No. 1 for 7 years now and counting. A healthy protion of that COULD be attributed to fleet, but the same could be said to a small extent of all the Falcon taxis. It seems as if I'm always bailing Holden out on these forums, and I am not at all a fan. Especially not in the last decade. Yet I continually find myself having to set you straight or put something into context, or a different focus - and I only bother once in a blue moon to waste my time doing so compared to how often I have to read this absolute rubbish.

You really do have a chip on your shoulder the size of mount everest don't you? Taking every possible opportunity to smear Holden, and only Holden, and there's no stoop too low.

The amusing thing is, that you and some of your buddies are just so caught up in it that it seems at times that's all there is to you - which is sad mate, I have to say. I can't even recall seeing this level of fanboyism in Holden fans, I am seriously not kidding. It seems they have lives (actually, it often seems more like most of them only have a passing interest in cars).

You guys really need to take a look at yourselves and see how your socks have fallen loose around your ankles. You will shock even yourselves.


Look, I only have a problem with you self righteous Ford-loving vindictive and vitriolic behaviour, and you're not alone in it though from ym observation you are the most prominent of posters with this massive chip at the moment. I'm taking a stand, however I hope you see this because I am not going to take every thread off topic and stir things up by choice, so this will be the last and biggest thing I say on the subject.

Come on mate. Add something of value.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Yet it's been No. 1 for 7 years now and counting. A healthy protion of that COULD be attributed to fleet, but the same could be said about all the Falcon taxis.

You sound like a Troll..........

Ford don't make Taxis to order. Most taxis are bought second hand (often ex fleet at auction) after which they are redone to taxi spec.....

[Kamshaaft]

Of course, cast down the heretic; He must be a witch, a heathen, a troll! burn him at the stake!!

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Of course, cast down the heretic; He must be a witch, a heathen, a troll! burn him at the stake!!

No.... just a Troll that should go back to LS1......

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by Kamshaaft

Of course, cast down the heretic; He must be a witch, a heathen, a troll! burn him at the stake!!

No - just not appreciated and not wanted

[Kamshaaft]

Originally Posted by Barraxr8

No.... just a Troll that should go back to LS1......

I've never been registered on LS1forums and couldn't give a stuff about them. My Falcon doesn't have an LS1 in it.