New Toyota Supra

[happy1]

https://www.bmwblog.com/2019/01/14/p...-toyota-supra/

Here you go, photo comparison with the Z4 from various angles

Cheers,

[baboon]

Interesting video about the tech specs of the Toyota Supra's new engine the B58 (BMW engine)...

2020 Toyota Supra Engine - Detailed Review Of The 2JZ Successor



Some of the B58 specs:

- 3.0L Straight 6 turbo charged
- Direct fuel injection
- Closed deck block
- Electric Arc Wire spray on the cylinder walls (0.3mm thickness)
- BMW's Vanos (variable valve timing)
- BMW's Valvetronic (variable valve lift)
- Twin-scroll turbocharger
- Air to water intercooler

[Polyal]

To be fair they havent done a bad job, I dislike the integrated rear spoiler and for once think a big spoiler would actually make it look better!

The Mk4 was pretty spot on for me, I think the new one could have taken a few more ques from it.

[Bossxr8]

From all reports from BMW owners the engine they have chosen isn't very modable. Anyone who thinks this new Supra will be able to compete with a 2JZ original will be pretty dissapointed. The 2JZ was legendary for being able to handle a tonne of boost and make big power. The BMW engine isn't well regarded for those 2 things at all.

I think the Z4 looks a lot better. The front and back of the Supra look silly.

[Vesper Martini]

I'm curious as both Z4 and Supra look to be heading for the GT3 class.
the previous Z4 GT3 were fitted with the 4.4 V8.. I think not available for road going models

I wonder if both of these will stick to the b58 engine for their GT3

[asagaai]

I wanted to love this and may have been tempted to get a small rear wheel drive car with very good handling dynamics.

But the engine choice is disappointing. Also no manual.

And the body- looks like someone who has ocd with slapping on flaring smooth bulges into all parts of body- not smooth and clean.

Looks boy racer and does not work for me now. Maybe they were aiming for the 20-27 year old age bracket?

[baboon]

Maybe the sound of it will sell you?

2020 Toyota Supra Launch Control

[marty351]

From the 86, it's a bigger boy racer.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by asagaai

I wanted to love this and may have been tempted to get a small rear wheel drive car with very good handling dynamics.

But the engine choice is disappointing. Also no manual.

250kw 500NM no good? and it has paddle shifters for manual shifting

[Wretched]

[QUOTE=baboon;6250456]Maybe the sound of it will sell you?


Sounds like any other BMW x40 model.

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

250kw 500NM no good? and it has paddle shifters for manual shifting

Yes fair point. I will keep an open mind- need to see in metal and try and get a drive in one to see. Be interesting to compare it to the M2 I took for a drive recently.

[Vesper Martini]

I've read the M2 is a little beast it uses the older legendary N55 engine.
would be an interesting comparison

[GT2]

M2 can now be ordered with the Comp pack with a de-tuned version of the S55 engine found in the M3/4.

[Venomous1]

I think for the money a actual Bmw will be better like a 1-series M or similar lighter cheaper fun same engine. And a Supra desperately needs a manual.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

250kw 500NM no good? and it has paddle shifters for manual shifting

Kinda ho hum these days. Would have expected it to be much closer to 300.

Looking at the 0-100 times between the new and old one it's really not much of an improvement. Certainly not as much as you would expect 20 years of evolution to bring. Just shows how good the 2JZ was in it's day.

[Vesper Martini]

agreed 2JZ gives nothing away to the newer engines, but I guess it didn't have the same emissions standards to adhere too.

let see what future editions of the B58 will give.
If anyone loves an inline 6 this is it for you now..

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

agreed 2JZ gives nothing away to the newer engines, but I guess it didn't have the same emissions standards to adhere too.

let see what future editions of the B58 will give.
If anyone loves an inline 6 this is it for you now..

Mercedes now have a turbo straight 6.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Mercedes now have a turbo straight 6.

haha thought there might be at least another somewhere

[baboon]

Did not know this but the exhaust manifold on the B58 engine is integrated into the head. The integrated exhaust manifold has coolant passages which lower the exhaust gas temp into the twin scroll turbo charger. This also allows the coolant to heat up quicker on startup, but also notice there is a complex coolant management system attached to the head as well...

Interesting design, which means they've optimised the exhaust manifold and for the aftermarket there is no way to replace this part?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by baboon

Did not know this but the exhaust manifold on the B58 engine is integrated into the head. The integrated exhaust manifold has coolant passages which lower the exhaust gas temp into the twin scroll turbo charger. This also allows the coolant to heat up quicker on startup, but also notice there is a complex coolant management system attached to the head as well...

Interesting design, which means they've optimised the exhaust manifold and for the aftermarket there is no way to replace this part?

Ford 2L Ecoboost and I think 1.6L have the same setup, I'm not sure if they have coolant running through them but the exhaust manifold is cast into the head with a T25 elbow feeding exhaust into the turbo.

In that case you can't use a twin scroll turbo on those engines (in the case of the 2L Ecoboost the head is interchangeable with the 2.3L which doesn't have integrated exhaust manifold)

Interesting read below

https://jalopnik.com/automakers-are-...lds-1796305029

I had a bit of a look under the bonnet of an FG Ecoboost recently, if you want to change the turbo you need to use a T25 style turbo.

[baboon]

So much more complex engines now...

Just read about the BMW Valvetronic (variable valve lift technology)...

This engine doesnt use a throttle body to regulate air into the engine, it uses the intake valves to regulate the air. The throttle body still exists but used only as a fail safe, and during normal operation the throttle body is wide open therefore near atmospheric pressure is at the valves... Apparently this design means more fuel efficient during normal driving (low load) conditions...

[cat007]

Sounds like what this guy was talking about a few years back

https://youtu.be/S3cFfM3r510

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

[baboon]

Originally Posted by cat007

Sounds like what this guy was talking about a few years back

https://youtu.be/S3cFfM3r510

Sent from my LYA-L09 using Tapatalk

Oh yeah that is brilliant, but much different to BMW's vavletronic, no camshafts and no timing chain needed, totally variable lift and duration on intake/exhaust valves via electronically controlled compressed air/oil pressure and spring... Koenigsegg and Freevalve is another level!

[stock1991]

Rebadged bmw and at best Toyota styling ?

[cat007]

Originally Posted by stock1991

Rebadged bmw and at best Toyota styling ?

The badge for captain obvious and the most said thing about the new supra goes to. ^^^^^^^^^^

[Franco Cozzo]

How good are Toyota?

If its not white goods and the worlds most boring commercial vehicles, their shift to bring back some excitement and targeting a younger market, their best efforts are a Subaru and now a BMW.

Who remembers 1990/00 Toyota?

JZX100 Toyota Chaser:



MKIII Toyota Supra:



MKIV Toyota Supra:



W20 Toyota MR2:



JZS171/UZS175 Toyota Crown:



Turbo 4 cylinder
Turbo 6 cylinder (1JZ and 2JZ engines)
V8 (1UZFE)

2019 Toyota:

[cat007]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

How good are Toyota?

If its not white goods and the worlds most boring commercial vehicles, their shift to bring back some excitement and targeting a younger market, their best efforts are a Subaru and now a BMW.

And where are Ford? Other that dying....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cat007

And where are Ford? Other that dying....

Ford GT (supercar)
Ford Mustang GT350
Ford Focus ST
Ford Focus RS
Ford Fiesta ST (my family has one of these in the driveway)
Ford F150 Raptor

Don't you worry about Ford - they've still got big hairy balls, Toyota chucked on the blonde wig and pink dress and has been standing on the Grey St in St Kilda for a long time now.

Toyota used to be a household name for fast cars when I was a wee woglet - see my quoted post.



Remember when they made short work of Ferrari in 2016 at Lemans? Just like the 1960s?

There is a reason a 22 year old Toyota Supra with 2JZGTE engine from the factory floor is asking for around the same coin as the new Toyota Supra, might have something to do with it not being 2019's 'Toyota' Lexcen.

[cat007]

The GT? That doesn't make them any money.

The 'performance' Focus is dead. A few years and it won't exist anymore, only the 'trend'.

The Fiesta? yuck. Good for grandma I guess.

The Mustang, about all they're good for. How long can they hold on to the V8 though?

F150? HAHA are you serious? That thing is as desparate as their shareholder's, and just as cheap.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cat007

The GT? That doesn't make them any money.

The 'performance' Focus is dead. A few years and it won't exist anymore, only the 'trend'.

The Fiesta? yuck. Good for grandma I guess.

The Mustang, about all they're good for. How long can they hold on to the V8 though?

F150? HAHA are you serious? That thing is as desparate as their shareholder's, and just as cheap.

Toyota? They've got a Subaru and a BMW.

Nice straw man, if you want I'll take you under my wing and show you how propaganda is done properly so it might take me longer than 15 seconds to deconstruct your thinly veiled trolling attempt.