Ford cutting EV production

[kypez]

Originally Posted by PooDog

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SL_HUDOdP6o

Should be reduces spend but yeah, Ford just doesn't have the right products at the right prices.

This is what happens when you're balancing ICE and EV. As mentioned, other products are better and at a better price point.

They need to change how they build cars and how they bring them to market.

Oh well, there goes my F150 Lightning...

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[PooDog]

Originally Posted by kypez

Should be reduces spend but yeah, Ford just doesn't have the right products at the right prices.

This is what happens when you're balancing ICE and EV. As mentioned, other products are better and at a better price point.

They need to change how they build cars and how they bring them to market.

Oh well, there goes my F150 Lightning...

Sent from my Pixel 8 using Tapatalk

Think they're all realizing it's not as simple as it seams .....Teslas had it all planned out from day 1......does this mean the Ranger PHEV is still going ahead? , they're going to lose $ big time if Toyota, Mitsubishi produce Hybrids which is projected?

[kypez]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Think they're all realizing it's not as simple as it seams .....Teslas had it all planned out from day 1......does this mean the Ranger PHEV is still going ahead? , they're going to lose $ big time if Toyota, Mitsubishi produce Hybrids which is projected?

The way I see it is that they'll go full Hybrid first and delay the cut over to EV till as late as possible. Unfortunately, they had the opportunity to be first but instead came second and no one remembers second place. They had shares in Rivian and should've stuck to that plan of buying their IP and hitting the ground running. Rivian are hurting too but they only have EVs to work; their properties aren't split like Ford.

Or they should've bought Tesla when they could've.

Outside of armchair commentators, building reliable EVs isn't as simply as people made it out to be.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by kypez

The way I see it is that they'll go full Hybrid first and delay the cut over to EV till as late as possible. Unfortunately, they had the opportunity to be first but instead came second and no one remembers second place. They had shares in Rivian and should've stuck to that plan of buying their IP and hitting the ground running. Rivian are hurting too but they only have EVs to work; their properties aren't split like Ford.

Or they should've bought Tesla when they could've.

Outside of armchair commentators, building reliable EVs isn't as simply as people made it out to be.

You could be right.....it's not here till 25 so plenty of time to back flip?

It's going to be interesting to see which manufacturers are still around in another 5 years or so ?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by jpd80

How I long for the days of a Falcon I-6, might drink a little more fuel but it’s as reliable as a day is long.

I know exactly what you mean, coming home today stopped at the lights, I had a FG G6ET on the cross road, totally stock in Ego and all I could think of was that effortless power hidden under a chromed luxo look.....rode well on 18's, handled well, sat on 100km/hr at low 7'sL/100km and could overtake like an afterburner was lit in that 80-130km/hr range....oh what we have lost

[kypez]

Originally Posted by PooDog

You could be right.....it's not here till 25 so plenty of time to back flip?



It's going to be interesting to see which manufacturers are still around in another 5 years or so ?

Don't think it will be a back flip. They'll go in on Hybrids. Ranger will be safe. What isn't safe is the F150 lightning and any expansion of the product. Similar with the Mach E, it might not get a series 2.

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[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

I know exactly what you mean, coming home today stopped at the lights, I had a FG G6ET on the cross road, totally stock in Ego and all I could think of was that effortless power hidden under a chromed luxo look.....rode well on 18's, handled well, sat on 100km/hr at low 7'sL/100km and could overtake like an afterburner was lit in that 80-130km/hr range....oh what we have lost

I didn't care much for the i6. Best thing that ever happened to mine was that they filled the wrong oil at the service and Ford bought it back. Engine note was terrible, it was a heavy motor and fuel consumption around town put the V8 to shame.

The Ecoboost G6E was my favourite. Made the front end light and turn in was great.

Best thing about the i6 was that it was made in Australia. That's about it.

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[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kypez

I didn't care much for the i6. Best thing that ever happened to mine was that they filled the wrong oil at the service and Ford bought it back. Engine note was terrible, it was a heavy motor and fuel consumption around town put the V8 to shame.

The Ecoboost G6E was my favourite. Made the front end light and turn in was great.

Best thing about the i6 was that it was made in Australia. That's about it.

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You preferred the Ecoboost I4 over the FG & FG/X turbo I6?

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

A lot of that has to do with poor town planning encouraging car use for short trips and lack of walking/cycling infrastructure as well as lack of public transport services or poor integration.

Totally a personal decision.
It's only considered poor town planning if punters decide to move there and solely rely on a car as transport.
Like buying a house on low lying land and then complaining about flooding.

Sorta coming back to subject, I guess that's why Europe with their lesser car travel and heavy use of public transport has a better uptake of EV's and alternate transport compared to the US / AUS model of high debt, urban sprawl and personal car travel.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

You preferred the Ecoboost I4 over the FG & FG/X turbo I6?

Aside from towing, the Ecoboost was just a joy to drive. Made the car feel much lighter and could easily get 900 kms+ out of it. Was a smooth engine and not intrusive. The front end of the car felt much nicer. Did about 100,000 kms in both versions of the G6E. Ecoboost was a nicer drive.

I hated my Sprint 6. The engine had power but it was so boring. The 6 speed was mapped in a way that made the car hold gears beyond comfortable even when cruising. Maybe I'd have liked it better if it was a manual. I hated that car.

Give me the V8 or Ecoboost everyday.

[jpd80]

There you go, 2,700 Mach Es sold in the USA last month , with over 13,500 of them sitting unsold at dealers nationwide.
They can’t give the thing away…….

https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/fil...es-release.pdf

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by jpd80

There you go, 2,700 Mach Es sold in the USA last month , with over 13,500 of them sitting unsold at dealers nationwide.
They can’t give the thing away…….

https://s201.q4cdn.com/693218008/fil...es-release.pdf

Might have something to do with them being so butt ugly and no one relates to them using the Mustang name. Maybe a remarket name to 'Clydesdale."

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

Might have something to do with them being so butt ugly and no one relates to them using the Mustang name. Maybe a remarket name to 'Clydesdale."

For many people in the US, there’s just no compelling reason to buy and electric vehicle.
Meanwhile, the soon to be culled Edge picked up 11,000 odd sales………

[kevino]

And if you subtract total ytd Edge sales from total sales the increase for total vehicle sales is negligible over 2022

Rokwiz makes a good point. Mach E is not an attractive car.


What a dilemma
Govco and Fords investment drives Bev s

But the consumer doesn’t want Fords product

And even the T brand discounts to keep volume sales rolling on Bev s

Who is winning on Bev s

Just the Chinese?

Everyone else in USA ( other than Tesla) and Europe is pulling back on Bev s

Are Bev s not the saviour?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Guess what, the research clinics hated it, so now has these are locked in
for America knowing that few customers want them….insane.

Sounds much like AU as it headed into launch.

[Sprintey]

Ford seem to be in a world of hurt with their EV rollout at present, and Tesla show how to do it properly. Is it the case that if the legacy autos get it wrong, they are kaput and we see the creative destruction of a phase shift in technology?

I tend to follow the metals and mining of components more than the automakers plans - EV takeup is increasing, but are we seeing it go to mainly completely different and new-to-us brands?

[Sprintey]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6jZRsc32x0

Dave takes it on - with a view of what Ford has just done, what will happen, and some solid real estate tips learned through misfortune to illustrate the path automakers have taken..

Wow. Legacy ICE automakers are in a world of trouble. A huge lesson in capitalism is happening right now.

[kypez]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Ford seem to be in a world of hurt with their EV rollout at present, and Tesla show how to do it properly. Is it the case that if the legacy autos get it wrong, they are kaput and we see the creative destruction of a phase shift in technology?



I tend to follow the metals and mining of components more than the automakers plans - EV takeup is increasing, but are we seeing it go to mainly completely different and new-to-us brands?

Problem for Ford and many other legacies is that they're batting for both sides. They have ICE platforms to build and are trying to build EV ones as well. Just hemorrhaging money.

Everyone rubbished Elon pushing for Robots and designs that required little people assembly. "Why complicate it with machines when you can solve the issues with a few people". Well, looking at how Ford and others are being bent over the barrel by the UAW, guess who made the right bet. UAW are no doubt adding to the cost of cars. And Ford are trying to build EVs like they built ICE cars. Just a mess.

Poor design language
Legacy approach
UAW
Dealer Network

All this results in Ford getting smashed on every EV sold.

[simon varley]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Ford seem to be in a world of hurt with their EV rollout at present, and Tesla show how to do it properly.

Tesla spent all their startup money years ago. They only started to make a profit in 2020 so 17 years after they started. All the other OEMs are in catch up and spending big to set up their lines, so the headlines aren't really surprising to me. What is disappointing is the back flip. We were gutted in Ford Oz to pay for the US EV development, and now the big bosses want to breathe life back into ICE? Good luck with that when you've just sacked all your engineers, and send the work to Brazil!

[kypez]

Originally Posted by simon varley

Tesla spent all their startup money years ago. They only started to make a profit in 2020 so 17 years after they started. All the other OEMs are in catch up and spending big to set up their lines, so the headlines aren't really surprising to me. What is disappointing is the back flip. We were gutted in Ford Oz to pay for the US EV development, and now the big bosses want to breathe life back into ICE? Good luck with that when you've just sacked all your engineers, and send the work to Brazil!

They also didn't try multiple product lines and electrifying everything. Kept it simple. Roadster based off the Lotus. Then their first in house car, the Model S... Then X... Then 3... And now Y. Nice simple strategy

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Sounds much like AU as it headed into launch.

This worries me…..
All I can think is yikes, those buyers were expecting a boxy 3- Row SUV
Kind of reminds me of a Prius, am I wrong?

Sorry for size of photo,

Mods, if you can reduce the image size then please do so


[DONE]

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by simon varley

Tesla spent all their startup money years ago. They only started to make a profit in 2020 so 17 years after they started. All the other OEMs are in catch up and spending big to set up their lines, so the headlines aren't really surprising to me. What is disappointing is the back flip. We were gutted in Ford Oz to pay for the US EV development, and now the big bosses want to breathe life back into ICE? Good luck with that when you've just sacked all your engineers, and send the work to Brazil!

Tesla also didn’t get cracking until it switched from high priced exclusive vehicle
to making compact 3 and Y, those and selling stock came together at the right time
propelling Tesla to major profitability, averaging 4 to 5 billion dollars profit a quarter.
Intersting that Tesla is less concerned about those emission credits it used to sell although,
I think Stellantis still buys a bunch to stay ahead of the curve….

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Ford seem to be in a world of hurt with their EV rollout at present, and Tesla show how to do it properly. Is it the case that if the legacy autos get it wrong, they are kaput and we see the creative destruction of a phase shift in technology?

Farley seems intent on trying to copy some of Teslas plan or at least copying designs that remind buyer of the X and Y crossovers. I think that’s a mistake, Ford should be following the wants of its buyers like boxy 2-row and 3-Row SUVs but it’s now back to protecting existing ICE vehicle sales like Explorer and Aviator.

BEV Lightning sales are subdued because the thing can’t tow a full trailer for more than about 160 km,
the whole reason people buy F150 is the capability to tow things if required, Lightning is a giant chocolate teapot.
And Ford is building a giant plant to mass produce electric F150s in under four years time, no wonder they’re anxious…

I tend to follow the metals and mining of components more than the automakers plans - EV takeup is increasing, but are we seeing it go to mainly completely different and new-to-us brands?

The minerals boom is going to heat up now that China is trying to control Lithium e fining and the supply of rare earths
I think it’s up to Australia to get into bed with Musk and other US based companies and develop better
Supply of Lithium and rare earth materials to US AND Europe before anyone else jumps in there.

[PooDog]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Farley seems intent on trying to copy some of Teslas plan or at least copying designs that remind buyer of the X and Y crossovers. I think that’s a mistake, Ford should be following the wants of its buyers like boxy 2-row and 3-Row SUVs but it’s now back to protecting existing ICE vehicle sales like Explorer and Aviator.

BEV Lightning sales are subdued because the thing can’t tow a full trailer for more than about 160 km,
the whole reason people buy F150 is the capability to tow things if required, Lightning is a giant chocolate teapot.
And Ford is building a giant plant to mass produce electric F150s in under four years time, no wonder they’re anxious…


The minerals boom is going to heat up now that China is trying to control Lithium e fining and the supply of rare earths
I think it’s up to Australia to get into bed with Musk and other US based companies and develop better
Supply of Lithium and rare earth materials to US AND Europe before anyone else jumps in there.

Do you think Farley must be under a lot of pressure?

Not saying it's all his fault, but there's a lot of not so flash stuff happening under his watch , like the terrible recll costs they're having, the EV cost blow outs ,the EV back flip ,Escape hybrid problems etc ....it all starts at the top ?

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by PooDog

Do you think Farley must be under a lot of pressure?

Not saying it's all his fault, but there's a lot of not so flash stuff happening under his watch , like the terrible recll costs they're having, the EV cost blow outs ,the EV back flip ,Escape hybrid problems etc ....it all starts at the top ?

My observations:
Major BEV push came from Bill Ford, Farley is just doing his bidding. Ford now spending upwards of $50 billion on major BEV infrastructure to build in mass quantities. Enter economic slow down, BEV buyers only number a few thousand
a month……what is Ford to do but slow down everything.

Man, if they get to 2026 and Ford is still selling a handful of BEVs, there will be
hell to pay. Most US buyer just don’t need BEVs, they’re not even on the shopping list.

On quality/reliability, almost every event can be tracked to Ford not adequately
monitoring their supplier quality and suffering the consequences after the fact.
The answer is more active monitoring of suppliers but doesn’t seem to be up to it,
they are so weighed down by multiple levels of bureaucracy that it impossible to
get the simplest things in place quickly.

North America T6 parts supplies shortages are absolutely killing Bronco and Ranger production,
Would that they could be on three shifts to sell what is high profit vehicles but for suppliers..
I wonder if key Chinese sourced T6 parts are being prioritised to our market over US production…

Even the electric guru is crying in his beer at falling sales all over the globe, this is a major slow down…

[Dr Smith]

We have all seen slow downs come and go, one big issue this time is almost all ICE manufacturers were into massive capital outlays ramping up their EV developments, as various international governments instigated end of ICE sales dates (which seems is being relaxed now) or higher emissions regs forcing more EV/hybrid R&D.

These same companies are also mostly still working on their ICE ranges, then you have the economic slow down mixed with cost increases on everything, early EV buyers jumped in but the mass market buyers don't want to pay 25+% more for EV's over ICE and our EV infrastructure still needs a big roll out to even begin to make it mass market viable. And the Chinese brands with better priced EV's are starting to march in....

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

image
This worries me…..
All I can think is yikes, those buyers were expecting a boxy 3- Row SUV
Kind of reminds me of a Prius, am I wrong?

Sorry for size of photo,

Mods, if you can reduce the image size then please do so

Oh wow, that really is an AU moment. Rover SD1 only more slab sided?

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Farley seems intent on trying to copy some of Teslas plan or at least copying designs that remind buyer of the X and Y crossovers. I think that’s a mistake, Ford should be following the wants of its buyers like boxy 2-row and 3-Row SUVs but it’s now back to protecting existing ICE vehicle sales like Explorer and Aviator.

BEV Lightning sales are subdued because the thing can’t tow a full trailer for more than about 160 km,
the whole reason people buy F150 is the capability to tow things if required, Lightning is a giant chocolate teapot.
And Ford is building a giant plant to mass produce electric F150s in under four years time, no wonder they’re anxious…


The minerals boom is going to heat up now that China is trying to control Lithium e fining and the supply of rare earths
I think it’s up to Australia to get into bed with Musk and other US based companies and develop better
Supply of Lithium and rare earth materials to US AND Europe before anyone else jumps in there.

With regard to last paragraph, already happening, certain companies are qualifying for govco grants/loans when included as part of the critical minerals supply chain, further to that these companies are signing off into a western supply chain, ie takeoffs with S Korea, Japanese companies, German ones like Siemens... in coming months Australian critical minerals enterprises will be allowed to qualify for capital from US at NA market rates and legal conditions if I read it right (have a check - I think it was Biden's recent meeting with Albo that included this, check for yourself tho) which is massive. Combined with current prices on these metals, future demand curves and the fact we're already seeing some of them value-add their product in their production plans, it's pretty exciting. The Chinese have that 20 year head start though and have lol enviro OH&S barriers to output. But yeah, this is not financial advice at all, I'm saying this as there is a pretty exciting time ahead for Australia.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Oh wow, that really is an AU moment. Rover SD1 only more slab sided?

Farley ordered the change from boxy 3-row SUV after the vehicle was delayed and moved to Oakville.
I really have to wonder at the Ford executive decision making process….

[Sprintey]

Whaaat?! Got into the issue a bit more on a Saturday arvo. It appears EV demand is not only dropping hard in the US, but Germany and the UK as well, causing idling plants.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTmeNizYWG4

The following channel has similar episodes to Chevy for Ford, Honda, Jeep - the vids sound like they are giving EV away for affordable ICE, for now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFszQsmqH3w

(at 2:13 they show an Aussie Barra when mentioning Mary Barra, I lol'd)

So what's going on? What's the truth, for EV sales are increasing, the Chinese are increasing their exports as their internal demand softened after Evergrand etc, Western politicians seem to be walking back the ICE bans by 2035, US domestic manufacturers are idling their EV plants to stop cash burn, Tesla is expanding greatly, Tesla is also dropping prices in the US, maybe we have a recession coming knocking internationally as high interest rates slow consumption (not in Australia mate! safe as houses!)...?

It sure is a disruptive moment in the auto industry.