FPV vs HSV sales

[BaraFGXR6]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

.... and one I chuckled with as, unlike some, have a sense of humour.


How about ..... No? Why should praise be hung just because? If someone doesn't like the opposition it is very much OK to say it here in a fairly logical and un trolling manner .... BUT ...... hang crap on Ford and expect a back lash. Would you like me to remind you what most of the members here choice to drive and enjoy?????

The only credit I will give them is making sure that FPV makes a better car ..... and they did! That is all ...... now go and grab that HSV you love sooooo much.

God forbid anyone on here not liking the HSV ........ Bloody politically correctness gone mad I say!

Main reason that HSV sell more is that more people prefer the HSV ........ BUT not just because it is the better car, in many peoples minds who own an FPV ...... AND there is nothing wrong with that and stating so!

That's a bit harsh mate..

No way in hell i would take a HSV over an FPV equivalent - i couldnt drive both cars to their capabilities for it to make a difference. That and my father would probably disown me.

Im just paying credit where credit is due and maybe if FPV would have brought out what the GT R-SPEC has a few years ago, they wouldnt be in this position. I.e, everyone was crying out for wider rear rubber! Im pretty sure it was proved on this very forum that the old 5.4 with wider rear rubber was actually faster than the R8.

My point is, FPV should be more customer centric which would in turn have increased their sales and loyalty base. Rather than employ the approach of "we make it, Ford lovers will buy it". Nothing wrong with a Ford lover buying their product. But market share will see FPV through hard times which is where my concern really lies:

I may not be able to buy one now, but i sure as hell dont want FPV to fold and the whole FORD performance brand go under before i have a chance to. Attracting people from the red camp will make sure this nightmare never comes to light which was the point i was trying to get across.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by BaraFGXR6

That's a bit harsh mate..

Yep ...... but a reponse to being told that

God forbid anyone actually give the opposition credit where credit is due.

God forbid some actually give FPV credit where credit is due. ?

But ******* me some people are completely arrogant in the face of Ford doing anything that could be considered bad.

But ******* me some people are completely arrogant in the face of Ford doing anything that could be considered good ?

So what we are praising HSV on a Ford forum? We all know they've earned it and maybe Ford could learn a thing or two from it.

So what we are praising FPV on a Ford forum? We all know they've earned it and maybe HSV could learn a thing or two from it. ?

If anyone wants to praise HSV or any other brand .... no probs at all but why should anyone 'have' to? I will if there is a reason to ..... but if I or anyone else doesn't want to it really both doesn't matter and is no one else s problem. Just do not expect it, even if it ***** you off.

[BaraFGXR6]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Yep ...... but a reponse to being told that


God forbid some actually give FPV credit where credit is due. ?

But ******* me some people are completely arrogant in the face of Ford doing anything that could be considered good ?

So what we are praising FPV on a Ford forum? We all know they've earned it and maybe HSV could learn a thing or two from it. ?

If anyone wants to praise HSV or any other brand .... no probs at all but why should anyone 'have' to? I will if there is a reason to ..... but if I or anyone else doesn't want to it really both doesn't matter and is no one else s problem. Just do not expect it, even if it ***** you off.

Okay going to reply but only for the sake of good healthy forum debating. Please be kind and dont take to this as fuel for an internet argument, lets be civil

I dont see anywhere that i said praising FPV was a BAD thing as you make out. I did say praising HSV shouldnt be frowned upon and here is why:

The question was asked why FPV sales seem to slander compared to HSV. Not a HSV v FPV ****ing contest. Which this has turned into.

Im no sales expert, nor am i in a marketing division that is aimed at selling cars. HSV sales are good and there are good points as to why they as a company have so many sales which have been brought up by other forum members and myself.

These points shouldnt be disregarded simply because they are good points from a HSV perspective but more so should be looked at as good points from a business perspective. Say what you want but they as a business (forget the fact that they are HSV) have done something right to retain such a large customer base and share of the market. Being a public forum where the question was asked, i threw in my layman's opinion of why i thought HSV sales were good compared to FORD. REPEAT: LAYMANS OPINION! I.e, what your average Joe mate thinks who dosnt care if its Holden or Ford.

For the record, saying that a GS is just an XR with a sticker kit is more pointing out the obvious than bashing on the product. This really isnt my original form of thinking but more just repeating a common concern among perspective buyers (several threads already exist on this and i really dont have to go into it further as its been done to death by now) . Being as sour as it may be, the poor brand handling of the GS has been a distinct factor in why FPV loose out sales to the R8. A few quick searchs on google will confirm this for you. Does this mean i think the GS is a bad car? Did i say i would never love to have one parked in my driveway if i had a spare 50 odd k and a spare licence lying around? No, i did not. This readily available information was related to the original question of why HSV sales are more than FPV and not a FPV v HSV performance debate.

My comment of people being arrogant in the face of FORD doing anything wrong was ment to translate as sometimes we need to be critical to examine the problem. A question asking why HSV sales are bad compared to FPV sales would imply some analysis of why they outsell FPV and this would of course bring up bad points. This is NOT bashing a FPV product (which i will again state for the court that im a lover of all Fords) but i will accept that it is "bashing" their current business plan.

In closing, I did not anticipate that being critical and sharing my thoughts would be cause so much stir and attention from one of the directors. Now i will retreat into my corner and allow this thread to continue for those who still wish to discuss it

[Nic302ef]

Everything being read in the topic is a good read. some excellent points to be made.

There is another consideration to take into account in regards to the FPV vs hsv debate. Coming from a recent back ground of research and development and seeing the figures of how much it can cost. Imagine over a wide range of vehicles being engineered and developed such as sedan, wagons, utes and long wheel base variants, all needing individual R&D, multiple teams on each models to meet deadlines, extensive testing, marketing, advertisement, the list goes on, calculate the costs of all that vs the number of vehicles sold. Now over to say fpv/ford, only needing to currently make a sedan and territory, and only a couple of fpv models all sharing a lot of similar equipment across the range, cost or development vs the sales. So Maybe Ford is being the smarter of the two and making them selves sustainable for the future, and receiving more income from sales compared to hsv/holden.


Unfortunately in today’s market big budgets aren’t always aloud and ford has to work in the restraints, look what happen to GM was one of the first car manufacturers to falter during the financial scares.


Now I might of missed something here that’s already been discussed this is just “could be” situation, I have no idea of the internal workings of either company and the profit margins there working from, just giving another prospective out there instead of the “I see more HSV’s then FPVs and sale figures show”

[99AUXR]

I agree personally efficiency for me is more in fords favour. HSV have a large model range but personally that isnt the way to solve all your customers needs. Especially with the world going all efficient with most manufacturing now days. I did hear on TV today that the some commodore models are going to be exported to the US.

Ford is personally has a good future, I love the falcon but I think its time has almost come. The new ranger is amazing, eco boost is amazing, the territory and small focus & fiesta are also great cars. I would love to see FPV pick up some of these models in the future and show us what they can do with some of these models. Especially the mustang when it arrives.

[BaraFGXR6]

Originally Posted by 99AUXR

I agree personally efficiency for me is more in fords favour. HSV have a large model range but personally that isnt the way to solve all your customers needs. Especially with the world going all efficient with most manufacturing now days. I did hear on TV today that the some commodore models are going to be exported to the US.

Ford is personally has a good future, I love the falcon but I think its time has almost come. The new ranger is amazing, eco boost is amazing, the territory and small focus & fiesta are also great cars. I would love to see FPV pick up some of these models in the future and show us what they can do with some of these models. Especially the mustang when it arrives.

You and me both dude!

Keep those fingers crossed and keep praying to the FORD gods of old that we see the new mustang here in Australia!

[Buntz]

They can keep their Mustang. Every Aussie bloke in his right mind knows a performance car has four doors.

[SpoolMan]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Every Aussie bloke in his right mind knows a performance car has four doors.

Not really..

[greenfoam]

Every budget family sedan with a cam and brake change might have four doors. But all real performances cars have two.

[joeyct]

I have seen the lack of foresight and planning by Ford Australia play a major part of the sales decline in performance cars.
The woeful decisions made in boardrooms about the design of FPV cars is evident.
Members of my family have recently purchased a new GTS, and I must say it is decidedly better in most respects to the BLAND excuse from FPV.
I asked the question about the choice as this same member owns 2x XY GT's.
their answer.... they look like poo, the wheels are poo, the exterior is poo, sit too high etc etc.
FPV's answer to styling..... a sticker pack... SAD SAD SAD.
The person in charge of wheel selection for one needs to clean out their desk immediately. How FPV get stuck on 5 spoke and no-more is deplorable.
The person in charge of exterior design ....... Have another try.
The car is no different to a standard car.
The idea that if they change it or make it too aggressive people wont know what it is. The same mentality that saw 888 racing go to holden. What a joke.
Get some programs going that will allow input from dedicated fans and designers who have a far better idea of what the public want than some clown trying to protect their job.
I am a Ford fan and am tired of wheels/ motor having hsv on the front cover.
You can lambaste me all you want but I know what i want and FPV isn't it.

[joeyct]

I have seen the lack of foresight and planning by Ford Australia play a major part of the sales decline in performance cars.
The woeful decisions made in boardrooms about the design of FPV cars is evident.
Members of my family have recently purchased a new GTS, and I must say it is decidedly better in most respects to the BLAND excuse from FPV.
I asked the question about the choice as this same member owns 2x XY GT's.
their answer.... they look like poo, the wheels are poo, the exterior is poo, sit too high etc etc.
FPV's answer to styling..... a sticker pack... SAD SAD SAD.
The person in charge of wheel selection for one needs to clean out their desk immediately. How FPV get stuck on 5 spoke and no-more is deplorable.
The person in charge of exterior design ....... Have another try.
The car is no different to a standard car.
The idea that if they change it or make it too aggressive people wont know what it is. The same mentality that saw 888 racing go to holden. What a joke.
Get some programs going that will allow input from dedicated fans and designers who have a far better idea of what the public want than some clown trying to protect their job.
I am a Ford fan and am tired of wheels/ motor having hsv on the front cover.
You can lambaste me all you want but I know what i want and FPV isn't it.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by joeyct

I have seen the lack of foresight and planning by Ford Australia play a major part of the sales decline in performance cars.
The woeful decisions made in boardrooms about the design of FPV cars is evident.
Members of my family have recently purchased a new GTS, and I must say it is decidedly better in most respects to the BLAND excuse from FPV.
I asked the question about the choice as this same member owns 2x XY GT's.
their answer.... they look like poo, the wheels are poo, the exterior is poo, sit too high etc etc.
FPV's answer to styling..... a sticker pack... SAD SAD SAD.
The person in charge of wheel selection for one needs to clean out their desk immediately. How FPV get stuck on 5 spoke and no-more is deplorable.
The person in charge of exterior design ....... Have another try.
The car is no different to a standard car.
The idea that if they change it or make it too aggressive people wont know what it is. The same mentality that saw 888 racing go to holden. What a joke.
Get some programs going that will allow input from dedicated fans and designers who have a far better idea of what the public want than some clown trying to protect their job.
I am a Ford fan and am tired of wheels/ motor having hsv on the front cover.
You can lambaste me all you want but I know what i want and FPV isn't it.

Good... buy a HSV....

HSV is at the other extreme if you ask me... Over cooked. My neighbor just upgraded his VE GTS to a VEIII GTS and its horrendous. He would have bought an FPV RSPEC but had too much pride being a HSV supporter his entire life.

Sadly in this world nothing is perfect.

[T4ME]

Allot of people prefer there meat overcooked....whats overcooked anyway,an opinion?

[flappist]

overcook [ˌəʊvəˈkʊk]vb (tr)(Cookery) to cook (something) until dry, burnt, or inedible

In the above case it is a surprisingly apt metaphor.

[GT-GTF]

I would be interested to see comparative sales figures for the Ford and Holden muscle cars in the 1970's.

Eg - did the PhIII HO (and XYGT) outsell its Holden equivalent(s)?

[XWGT]

From memory XY GT sales were around 1500
PIII 300 of course

[flappist]

Originally Posted by GT-GTS

I would be interested to see comparative sales figures for the Ford and Holden muscle cars in the 1970's.

Eg - did the PhIII HO (and XYGT) outsell its Holden equivalent(s)?

Obviously....all Ford would have had to do was sell ONE because there was nothing with a holden badge in 1971 that was even remotely close to being equivalent to the Falcon GTHO Phase 3.

[mcnews]

I have nearly all the mags from the original era and Holdens were so slow in comparison to the Fords and Valiants. A 3-speed 245 Pacer was faster than any Holden tested by the motoring press until the yellow peril GTS-R Commodore. Only the Phase cars were genuinely fast out of the Fords too. The fastest of the era were Phase cars, and the sixpack Chargers. Holden never made a remotely fast car in standard trim. XU1s struggled to get in the high 15s, 350 Monaros rarely got under 16, A9X didn't get into the 14s.

[GT-GTF]

Originally Posted by flappist

Obviously....all Ford would have had to do was sell ONE because there was nothing with a holden badge in 1971 that was even remotely close to being equivalent to the Falcon GTHO Phase 3.

Your missing my point. The XY GT was clearly a superior product to the GMH and Chrysler muscle car/bathurst equivalents. What im wondering is did the sales at the time reflect this dominance or is history repeating itself with HSV/FPV whereby HSV outsells FPV 2:1 but has the slower and lower kw product.

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Not really..

Dammit Spoolman, had to go and ruin it. Besides, those coupes were never as popular as the 4 door GT's.

Originally Posted by greenfoam

Every budget family sedan with a cam and brake change might have four doors. But all real performances cars have two.

Anything from AMG or M division with 4 doors aren't performance cars?

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

Dammit Spoolman, had to go and ruin it. Besides, those coupes were never as popular as the 4 door GT's.

Anything from AMG or M division with 4 doors aren't performance cars?

Well not really when compared to the ones from AMG and M with two doors......

[1TUFFUTE]

Originally Posted by joeyct

I have seen the lack of foresight and planning by Ford Australia play a major part of the sales decline in performance cars.
The woeful decisions made in boardrooms about the design of FPV cars is evident.
Members of my family have recently purchased a new GTS, and I must say it is decidedly better in most respects to the BLAND excuse from FPV.
I asked the question about the choice as this same member owns 2x XY GT's.
their answer.... they look like poo, the wheels are poo, the exterior is poo, sit too high etc etc.
FPV's answer to styling..... a sticker pack... SAD SAD SAD.
The person in charge of wheel selection for one needs to clean out their desk immediately. How FPV get stuck on 5 spoke and no-more is deplorable.
The person in charge of exterior design ....... Have another try.
The car is no different to a standard car.
The idea that if they change it or make it too aggressive people wont know what it is. The same mentality that saw 888 racing go to holden. What a joke.
Get some programs going that will allow input from dedicated fans and designers who have a far better idea of what the public want than some clown trying to protect their job.
I am a Ford fan and am tired of wheels/ motor having hsv on the front cover.
You can lambaste me all you want but I know what i want and FPV isn't it.

no offense but most of your comment is based on personnel perspective dribble. Just because i dont like suburu wrx styling, doesnt give me the right to preach to everyone that they are wrongly targeting customers with their styling.
Ford has in my eyes done a brilliant job in moving the fg shape to the euro styling INCLUDING the GT where if you dont like the GT look which HAS ALWAYS HAD STRIPES....you can option them off or get the GTE.
Oh and when you say decidedly bettter in most respects your obviously not talking about ride comfort or ANY of the performance peramaters whatsoever.

And 888 left ford for the cash....holden bought them out for far more then ford could offer and if you dont know that...then theres a free bit of knew advice you can preach too your family and friends for their next holden purchase. Holden also has purchased every single high performing entity in the last few years that ford has developed. Including team 888...there engineer boss from djr, will davison, james courtney, and whincup and lowndsey(the later who wanted to stay with ford but had to fork out 1mill personally to opt out of his contract so obviously a no go)

And if you dont believe the overall theme im talking about here...think about what ive said else where.....holden sells well in all their classes from large to small sedans to colorados and captivas...all of which are NO WHERE NEAR the best in their respective classes. Ford on the other hand has class leading or top fighting fiesta, focus,territory, ranger, mondeo,and FG falcon(the safest officially tested second hand car you can buy in australia).Fg falconlpi is even more economic then nearly all the small and medium class models, even the previous corolla included. PEOPLE BUY HOLDENS...AND HSVS WITH BRAND LOYALTY...not because they are better....FACT!!!!!

The only thing i ever see complained about with ford aus thats due credit is LACK OF ADVERTISING and the good ole looks and personnel opinion dilema. And that goes both ways if your smart.

rant over...again...sorry...

[xisled]

Originally Posted by 1TUFFUTE

no offense but most of your comment is based on personnel perspective dribble. Just because i dont like suburu wrx styling, doesnt give me the right to preach to everyone that they are wrongly targeting customers with their styling.
Ford has in my eyes done a brilliant job in moving the fg shape to the euro styling INCLUDING the GT where if you dont like the GT look which HAS ALWAYS HAD STRIPES....you can option them off or get the GTE.
Oh and when you say decidedly bettter in most respects your obviously not talking about ride comfort or ANY of the performance peramaters whatsoever.

And 888 left ford for the cash....holden bought them out for far more then ford could offer and if you dont know that...then theres a free bit of knew advice you can preach too your family and friends for their next holden purchase. Holden also has purchased every single high performing entity in the last few years that ford has developed. Including team 888...there engineer boss from djr, will davison, james courtney, and whincup and lowndsey(the later who wanted to stay with ford but had to fork out 1mill personally to opt out of his contract so obviously a no go)

And if you dont believe the overall theme im talking about here...think about what ive said else where.....holden sells well in all their classes from large to small sedans to colorados and captivas...all of which are NO WHERE NEAR the best in their respective classes. Ford on the other hand has class leading or top fighting fiesta, focus,territory, ranger, mondeo,and FG falcon(the safest officially tested second hand car you can buy in australia).Fg falconlpi is even more economic then nearly all the small and medium class models, even the previous corolla included. PEOPLE BUY HOLDENS...AND HSVS WITH BRAND LOYALTY...not because they are better....FACT!!!!!

The only thing i ever see complained about with ford aus thats due credit is LACK OF ADVERTISING and the good ole looks and personnel opinion dilema. And that goes both ways if your smart.

rant over...again...sorry...

Just looking at the part about 1 being better than the other, it is not fact it is opinion. Both cars have good and bad points.

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by xisled

Just looking at the part about 1 being better than the other, it is not fact it is opinion. Both cars have good and bad points.

It is how the opinion is stated ...... going off 1/2 cocked and totally smacking those in the face with an over ripe opinion on other members rides who totally enjoy and love their FPV's (or whatever) and to be told they are POO & etc is both offensive and not required. I would not say that about HSV on LS1 as I wouldn't want to offend those that love their cars ...... ON A HOLDEN forum ....... and I do get a bit weird when others can do it here and hide behind the fact that it is "Only their opinion ..... "

Well guess what ...... keep these type of opinions to yourself and have some consideration what the members drive and why they come here ..... to a FORD forum. Its because they bloody well enjoy what they drive and do not need to have others to hang POO on other peoples cars in a forum dedicated to those with an appreciation of Fords.

Understand now????

End of thread .......