Ford: Medium cars are the new Large

[Brazen]

http://www.caradvice.com.au/153718/m...arge-car-ford/

Interesting comments today from J Mays. Especially considering the Large Commodore outsold the Camry over 2:1 (40,000 compared to 19,000)

Ford’s global design boss says the medium-size car – such as the company’s own Mondeo, the Mazda6 or Toyota Camry – is the new large car.

With global sales of large cars in decline, including the locally built Ford Falcon that plummeted in 2011 to its worst sales result on record, J Mays told Australian media at the 2012 Delhi Auto Expo that it will become increasingly harder for the company to justify investment in the segment.

“I like big D [segment] cars but the market doesn’t like them,” says Mays. “It’s not a decision we’re making, it’s a decision the customer is making that they’re just not buying into that [large car] segment any more.

“And it’s not a function of Australia, it’s of anywhere in the world. That segment is shrinking. The new large car – in a big way – is sort of the C/D [medium] car.

“And beyond the C/D car you get a very small piece of the market.

“There’s always somewhere in the world that will buy [a large car] but trying to sustain that over the next 10 years is going to be really tough I think.”



Ford will reveal its all-new global medium car at this month’s 2012 Detroit motor show – a model that will retain the Fusion name in the US and be called Mondeo for other markets such as Europe and Australia.

The current Mondeo is already a sizeable car that isn’t much shorter than the Falcon.

Mays says the new Fusion/Mondeo will make a significant statement in the market and that, as with Ford’s other ‘One Ford’ global products so far – including the Fiesta and Focus – a number of variously styled off-shoot products could be produced.

Ford’s design chief wouldn’t confirm or deny whether the company could create its Taurus large car replacement – which is expected to underpin the next Falcon – with larger sheetmetal placed over the Fusion/Mondeo architecture.

“We want to get to get the Fusion launch [at Detroit] out of the way and then we can talk about potential top hats on the same platform.

“What you’ve seen with One Ford, we’ve done it [establish multiple vehicles off one platform] on B cars [like Fiesta], C cars [like Focus] and logic would tell you that there’s got to be some possibility for different top hats on every different platform we do.

“The possibility is there should we decide to [to put different top hats on Fusion].”



Mays believes the new Fusion/Mondeo will worry manufacturers of medium-car rivals.

“I think [with Fusion] we’ve got a bit of a milestone moment with this car. This is not just another C/D car. It’s going to be a real contender in that [medium car] market.

“And when I look at the competition, whether it’s Volkswagen, Toyota, Hyundai, Kia, Nissan …we’ve got a really strong product that we’re bringing to market.”

[Pepscobra]

All of what he says is true and hard to argue against.
Unfortunately its just more reason to be worried about the future of the falcon.

[Fordman1]

Reading between the lines :

"Falcon gone after this product cycle"

[Polyal]

The size classifications and the dimensions that go with it have been distorted for the past few years, if not more. As mentioned, the mondeo has just as much space IIRC as a Falcon yet its medium? You wonder why the Falcon is facing an up hill battle when its "little" brother provides the same experience more or less, with more tech for less dollars.

With all this talk, and man what a crazy couple of last days with the media spruking things up, it makes my belief that the Falcon should become a Sport/Luxury performance car off a GRWD even stronger.

[Mr Hardware]

I don't really understand - by what method are they labelling cars 'medium' or 'large'?

The Toyota Camry was a medium car in 1992. But in 2012, it's by all methodology of testing, a large car. It is as long and as wide as an EA-ED falcon.

Belive it or not, my current model corolla:


is as big as an SV21 camry!!!:

[FPV GTHO]

Falcon hasnt typically matched up to Fords internal class system anyway. Its internal codename suggests its E sized, but the D Taurus is wider and the E Panther cars were longer. The CD Mondeo is almost the same length as well.

I dont think its an issue to downsize to CD. It may be required anyway to share enough with Mustang.

[mr smith]

One more facelift and its over for the Falcon as we know it. Ute will go within the next 12-18 months and sedan wil be streched a little longer.

[OzJavelin]

I didn't realize how big modern medium cars were until my sister-in-law parked her new Mondeo alongside my old VY SV8 .. I think the Mondeo is actually bigger ..

[mik]

nothing lasts forever, all you can do is enjoy it while it`s still here, it`s very hard to imagine another big rear wheel drive 335/315 kw v8 or 310 kw I6 factory hotrod ever being built in Australia again with the world financials going down the toilet.

[Polyal]

But in saying that people have been writing off the Falcon for years, it in itself changes and adapts so there is no real good reason until they actually say no that this wont continue.

Silence is golden at the moment though.

[Chilliman]

1. Medium cars are the new large cars
2. CD4 Mondeo/Fusion to be revealed at Detroit show next week
3. Kim Carr in the US pleading the locals case
4. Taurus ruled out as Falcon replacement
5. Lincoln still needs a RWD Flagship
6. Mustang mules with IRS running around the You Yangs

Does anybody else see what going on here?

My prediction is that Falcon will be gone next model cycle - marketing will push the CD4 cars for all their worth, however Ford Australia will still be producing a large RWD car; just not a Falcon, but rather a Lincoln Flagship model.

Ford Australia (or should that be Lincoln Australia) will in effect become a niche manufacturer of luxury RWD vehicles, where the numbers (and profits) make alot more sense as a primarily export focussed business. Lincoln dealerships will pop-up around the country selling local and imported product.

And like Camaro, Ford Australia engineers the next Mustang though LHD variants are produced in the USA (Australia supplies the RHD world with pony cars).

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by OzJavelin

I didn't realize how big modern medium cars were until my sister-in-law parked her new Mondeo alongside my old VY SV8 .. I think the Mondeo is actually bigger ..

Mondeo is a very underrated car.
For $ value I find if better value than the Falcon XT and G6 esp in diesel form.
The boot size in the Mondeo is huge and the interior is comfortable not to mention loaded with gadgets. I do like the Mondeo wagon.

[bafel]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

Ford Australia (or should that be Lincoln Australia) will in effect become a niche manufacturer of luxury RWD vehicles, where the numbers (and profits) make alot more sense as a primarily export focussed business. Lincoln dealerships will pop-up around the country selling local and imported product.

And like Camaro, Ford Australia engineers the next Mustang though LHD variants are produced in the USA (Australia supplies the RHD world with pony cars).

If they were to go down this path, why couldn't Ford Aus just design a falcon 'top hat' for this platform and keep the falcon here and in rwd?

[Chilliman]

Originally Posted by bafel

If they were to go down this path, why couldn't Ford Aus just design a falcon 'top hat' for this platform and keep the falcon here and in rwd?

The mainstream market for large RWD sedans is rapidly shrinking, as evidenced by the Mazda 3 outselling Commodore for 2011, and even the Focus out selling the Falcon last month.

The only market where large RWD sedans (or even RWD's sull stop) are keeping their head above water is in niche markets like the luxury segement or the performance segment - and these are alot smaller markets.

It could be possible that FPV takes the new Licoln RWD basics and creates a performance sedan out of it - not sure how the business case would stack up on that one?

[Nikked]

The Falcon is dead...


...long live the falcon!


It's always interesting that they (Ford) have not said the falcon will be canned, but have said that type of car...in a round about fashion.

It's should be interesting...

[phillyc]

Be quite funny if the new Fusion / Mondeo was released with a RWD Ecoboost 2.0L...

[jpd80]

+2015 large car will show everyone the strength of "One Ford" is in parts supply, not platforms.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Chilliman

1. Medium cars are the new large cars
2. CD4 Mondeo/Fusion to be revealed at Detroit show next week
3. Kim Carr in the US pleading the locals case
4. Taurus ruled out as Falcon replacement
5. Lincoln still needs a RWD Flagship
6. Mustang mules with IRS running around the You Yangs

Does anybody else see what going on here?

My prediction is that Falcon will be gone next model cycle - marketing will push the CD4 cars for all their worth, however Ford Australia will still be producing a large RWD car; just not a Falcon, but rather a Lincoln Flagship model.

Ford Australia (or should that be Lincoln Australia) will in effect become a niche manufacturer of luxury RWD vehicles, where the numbers (and profits) make alot more sense as a primarily export focussed business. Lincoln dealerships will pop-up around the country selling local and imported product.

And like Camaro, Ford Australia engineers the next Mustang though LHD variants are produced in the USA (Australia supplies the RHD world with pony cars).

Makes zero sense to do that. If they were to build a Lincoln RWD vehicle here it would make a Falcon derivative of it quite cheap to design and engineer if they could twin it with another vehicle, compared to how much it would cost to design and engineer a new Falcon all on its own.

[jpd80]

In the USA, Taurus sells about 5,000 a month, that's in a country of +300 million
So luckily it shares its platform with Explorer otherwise it's usefulness would be questionable.
The fact that Ford NA is looking at switching it to the new Mondeo/Fusion CD4/EUCD platform has
more to do the need to reduce weight from the current cars +4,000 lbs down to a Falcon like 3700 lbs.

While the CD4 +3" Taurus has been mooted for quite a while, it is doubtful that any meaningful
scale of economy would be achieved by switching Falcon to that platform as a new supplier
network would have to be established on our side of the world. What is even more interesting
is the real possibility of sharing more of Falcon and Mustang to effect real scales of economy
without completely changing everything, the cost savings potential is huge and this is
the real power of "One Ford", not the shared platforms the press often leaps to.

In that respect, Ford will continue progressing the Falcon with regular mini updates until
the jump to the +2015 car is not that big, more like a change in top hat and power train.

While Falcon is no longer the mainstay it once was, it and the Territory are still important
to the local business plan, so long as costs are controlled all will be well....

[flappist]

Mondeo is about the same size as an EA falcon.

Maybe the next Falcon should that size too.

[max_torq]

Looks likely that the falcon, the taurus, any new lincoln, and the mustang as well, will be top hats on the fusion/mondeo platform. GRWD is a pipedream.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by max_torq

Looks likely that the falcon, the taurus, any new lincoln, and the mustang as well, will be top hats on the fusion/mondeo platform. GRWD is a pipedream.

How can that happen when both Mustang and Falcon are RWD?

That platform is FWD.

GRWD is probably not going ahead anymore but there's no reason Falcon can't continue on the E8 platform and share some bits and pieces with Mustang, bar the cash and return on investment to do it, which is the sticking point obviously.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by flappist

Mondeo is about the same size as an EA falcon.

Maybe the next Falcon should that size too.

The thing that gets me is the way the manufacturers blur the lines between what is medium and what is large. Somehow Camry is medium and Aurion is large despite near identicle dimensions, and the Mondeo is basically around the same size as Falcon and is medium. If Falcon nips and tucks a little bit of size from here and there are Ford still going to class it as a large car or start saying its a medium vehicle.

It makes very little sense.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

The thing that gets me is the way the manufacturers blur the lines between what is medium and what is large. Somehow Camry is medium and Aurion is large despite near identicle dimensions, and the Mondeo is basically around the same size as Falcon and is medium. If Falcon nips and tucks a little bit of size from here and there are Ford still going to class it as a large car or start saying its a medium vehicle.

It makes very little sense.

Agree, when looking at the sizing it's not adding up, but maybe it's do to with the economy, which is due to the extra weight (and power) of the respective drivelines. Either that or just the fact they have the more powerful drivelines.

I can't remember who it was, but a while ago someone here suggest Ecoboost Falcon should have unique styling (as per Camry/Aurion) so Ford could classify it as a medium sized vehicle.

[prydey]

technically falcon ecoboost should be a medium car then.......

[Falc'man]

You're not wrong. The issue is convincing people of that when it's physically identical to the 6cyl.

Edit: On second thoughts, they should be highlighting that is has the benefits of a large vehicle with the running costs of a much smaller vehicle.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by max_torq

Looks likely that the falcon, the taurus, any new lincoln, and the mustang as well, will be top hats on the fusion/mondeo platform. GRWD is a pipedream.

This strategy has been misinterpreted by so many people when all Ford wanted to achieve was scales of economy
with its surviving RWD cars, there is still a lot of scope to save huge sums of money and that centres around
two things, next Falcon won't cost $700 M to develop and will use Ford's supplier network to achieve even
greater scales of economy, doubters are going to be amazed and dazed....

[galaxy xr8]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

You're not wrong. The issue is convincing people of that when it's physically identical to the 6cyl.

Edit: On second thoughts, they should be highlighting that is has the benefits of a large vehicle with the running costs of a much smaller vehicle.

I thought that was their intention and plan to do all along, to market the large car size/performance with small car economy.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by prydey

technically falcon ecoboost should be a medium car then.......

Originally Posted by Falc'man

You're not wrong. The issue is convincing people of that when it's physically identical to the 6cyl.

Edit: On second thoughts, they should be highlighting that is has the benefits of a large vehicle with the running costs of a much smaller vehicle.

Falcon's frame is the difference, it offers 75mm more shoulder room but is basically designed
to extend to a Fairlane that's never going to be built. What Ford needs is a Falcon that can bridge
Mid sized and large cars more effectively, drop some more weight and make it a 5-door, not sedan.

Two vehicles on one body type,
1) I-4s in Ecoboost and I-4 diesel
2) I-6-V6 and V8 engines.

[prydey]

what would be the point of making falcon a 5 door hatch? if thats what you want, just whack falcon badges on mondeo!