Covid 19 -

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

The New England Journal of Medicine study on hydroxxxxx for mild to moderate cases.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2019014

"A total of 18 patients died in the hospital during the trial (5 patients assigned to receive hydroxychloroquine plus azithromycin, 7 in the hydroxychloroquine-alone group, and 6 in the control group). There were no significant between-group differences with regard to the secondary outcomes of thromboembolic complications or acute kidney injury within 15 days, either in the prespecified analyses (Table 2) or in post hoc analyses that accounted for the competing risk of death (Table S11)."

Every single study promoting HCQ has made clear it must be given early, they state it has the reported ability to stop the virus from replicating within the cells avoiding the immune response that causes the respiratory failure leading to intubation and intimately death.

So yes you are correct in saying that many of the people who have recovered may have recovered anyway had they not taken it, but that also means that the argument can be made of how many people could have been saved had they had HCQ early and avoided being intubated?

This is the question being asked, it’s not in anyway suggesting that it’s a miracle drug that will bring people back from the dead, it’s being suggested it could be used to avoid people ending up in hospital.

There are also mainstream studies out there suggesting vitamin D deficiency has a strong link with C19 infection results, that’s not to suggest if you pump someone in a respirator full of vitamin D that they will all of a sudden recover.

If someone’s health condition means it’s unsafe, then it’s unsafe.

[russellw]

278 new cases for Australia and 9 deaths sees the CMR rise to 1.130% and active cases rise to 5,973. NSW recorded 29, WA 2, Queensland 3 and the balance were in Victoria.

2 new cases and no deaths for NZ so CMR is 1.412% and active cases rise to 23.

The UK recorded 763 new cases and 83 deaths yesterday so the CMR drops to 15.246%.

Just over 65k new cases in the USA yesterday and 1,216 deaths sees CMR down to 3.385% and active cases at 48.0% with the raw numbers still rising. Note that the USA is actually minus one day due to time differences.

Other notable points:
Despite what I said, global cases pass 17M with the last 1M in 4 days;
The USA completes 56M tests;
Asia records a new high for daily cases with 76,301;

Lebanon (182), Libya (205), Bosnia & Herzegovina (361), Czechia (374), Uzbekistan (692), Morocco (826), Iraq (2,968) and India (52,249) all recorded new daily highs, those in blue for the second consecutive day and those in red for a third or more consecutive day.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Every single study promoting HCQ has made clear it must be given early, they state it has the reported ability to stop the virus from replicating within the cells avoiding the immune response that causes the respiratory failure leading to intubation and intimately death.

So yes you are correct in saying that many of the people who have recovered may have recovered anyway had they not taken it, but that also means that the argument can be made of how many people could have been saved had they had HCQ early and avoided being intubated?

This is the question being asked, it’s not in anyway suggesting that it’s a miracle drug that will bring people back from the dead, it’s being suggested it could be used to avoid people ending up in hospital.

There are also mainstream studies out there suggesting vitamin D deficiency has a strong link with C19 infection results, that’s not to suggest if you pump someone in a respirator full of vitamin D that they will all of a sudden recover.

If someone’s health condition means it’s unsafe, then it’s unsafe.

So is the suggestion everyone takes HCQ until the virus passes or a vaccine is found? You would be laughing if you were the manufacturer.

And thats a reported ability or proven?

[cheap]

723 new cases in Victoria.

This is bizarre as I can't see Victorians not wanting to comply with the crisis. Perhaps the testing process, testing kits, and or both might be flawed?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by cheap

723 new cases in Victoria.

This is bizarre as I can't see Victorian not wanting to comply with the crisis. Perhaps the testing process, testing kits, and or both might be flawed?

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...-high/12506262

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by cheap

723 new cases in Victoria.

This is bizarre as I can't see Victorians not wanting to comply with the crisis. Perhaps the testing process, testing kits, and or both might be flawed?

That would imply that the testing process is producing false negatives, Therefore artificially pumping up numbers? Surely not!

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Polyal

So is the suggestion everyone takes HCQ until the virus passes or a vaccine is found? You would be laughing if you were the manufacturer.

And thats a reported ability or proven?

There are studies underway including locally (unless they were canned with the hospital use as GTP Owner mentioned) to test its effectiveness as a Covid preventive with health care workers.

https://www.wehi.edu.au/news/covid19...thcare-workers

Masks don’t work to 100% effectiveness, neither does social distancing any other measure we have at the moment, if we added something like this in, even if it helped a notable percentage and helped control this infection isn’t that what we all want?

If for example it’s unsafe for the elderly in homes, which from what I’ve read is very debatable, but the workers could take it to avoid cross contamination this would be a great result.

The cost of this experiment at a couple of dollars a week per person would be a drop in the ocean compared to what the economy is bleeding per week.

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

The cost of this experiment at a couple of dollars a week per person would be a drop in the ocean compared to what the economy is bleeding per week.

I understand what you are saying but I think you are underestimating how complex running an experiment like this can be. First you have to get consent from all the staff, including temp relief workers, to participate in the trial. What if some won't take part? Some of these places have high staff turnover.
Then everyone has to be monitored for side effects. This drug has been around a long time and its side effects are well known. Compliance also has to be monitored to make sure everyone takes what they should when they should.
Then someone has to try and make sense of the data that is collected. Will we get usable information? How will you decide whether what happens is due to the trial or just happened by chance?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...-high/12506262

Biggest takeaway from that article for me is, and I think this needs to be highlighted to every Victorian who is reading this post:

From midnight Sunday all Victorians, including those in regional areas, will be required to wear face coverings when they leave their homes.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by PhilT2

I understand what you are saying but I think you are underestimating how complex running an experiment like this can be. First you have to get consent from all the staff, including temp relief workers, to participate in the trial. What if some won't take part? Some of these places have high staff turnover.
Then everyone has to be monitored for side effects. This drug has been around a long time and its side effects are well known. Compliance also has to be monitored to make sure everyone takes what they should when they should.
Then someone has to try and make sense of the data that is collected. Will we get usable information? How will you decide whether what happens is due to the trial or just happened by chance?

Absolutely it will be difficult, these are difficult times where we are all making sacrifices and having to make extra effort, mask mandate just went state wide, highest daily infection by numbers we wouldn’t have thought possible a month ago.

This isn’t the time for putting things in the too hard basket, if this could reduce infection even in a reasonable percentage.

The study I’ve linked above should be a couple of months in by now, sooner or later we will a conclusive answer, but if I had an elderly relative in a home that didn’t have health conditions precluding then from taking something that may protect them, I’d want them on it, even if only during the active outbreak in the facility.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by FPV8U

Absolutely it will be difficult, these are difficult times where we are all making sacrifices and having to make extra effort, mask mandate just went state wide, highest daily infection by numbers we wouldn’t have thought possible a month ago.

This isn’t the time for putting things in the too hard basket, if this could reduce infection even in a reasonable percentage.

The study I’ve linked above should be a couple of months in by now, sooner or later we will a conclusive answer, but if I had an elderly relative in a home that didn’t have health conditions precluding then from taking something that may protect them, I’d want them on it, even if only during the active outbreak in the facility.

Once proven that's a different kettle of fish. And even then it needs time in the field.

Happy for you to be first though. Until the full green light is given people are wasting their energy even thinking about it unless they want to put their hand up to be part of the trial to speed the process up.

Even when the vaccine comes out I am happy to hang back in the line (Im a vaccer before anyone starts that, so are all my kids).

Mask mandate should have been done with the first wave if you go into public, its not hard and you dont even have to inject your body.

with any issue there is no silver bullet.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Biggest takeaway from that article for me is, and I think this needs to be highlighted to every Victorian who is reading this post:

I'm suspect on their effectiveness given the current increasing case numbers.

It's all a bit bull**** IMO - been a week now with masks and numbers are higher than ever.

But I figure there's a bit of a lag on the results, up to 5-7 days for results, time for people to develop symptoms and get tested etc - what time period are these 700+ new cases from?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm suspect on their effectiveness given the current increasing case numbers.

It's all a bit bull**** IMO - been a week now with masks and numbers are higher than ever.

But I figure there's a bit of a lag on the results, up to 5-7 days for results, time for people to develop symptoms and get tested etc - what time period are these 700+ new cases from?

Stats this week are from actions over the past 2+ weeks.

[Franco Cozzo]

Also there's still only 10,000 cases out of the 6.5M Victorians - that's still pretty good odds.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Once proven that's a different kettle of fish. And even then it needs time in the field.

Happy for you to be first though. Until the full green light is given people are wasting their energy even thinking about it unless they want to put their hand up to be part of the trial to speed the process up.

Even when the vaccine comes out I am happy to hang back in the line (Im a vaccer before anyone starts that, so are all my kids).

Mask mandate should have been done with the first wave if you go into public, its not hard and you dont even have to inject your body.

with any issue there is no silver bullet.

I’m awaiting to hear back if they are willing to expand their trial to include my line of work.

I’m with you on the Vaccine, I’m not in a rush to take anything that hasn’t been proven safe and like you I’m normally happy to take them.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Also there's still only 10,000 cases out of the 6.5M Victorians - that's still pretty good odds.

I think the biggest concern is the trendline, not necessarily the magnitude of current cases. Continuing to go up is not a good thing.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm suspect on their effectiveness given the current increasing case numbers.

It's all a bit bull**** IMO - been a week now with masks and numbers are higher than ever.

But I figure there's a bit of a lag on the results, up to 5-7 days for results, time for people to develop symptoms and get tested etc - what time period are these 700+ new cases from?

And it's only effective if people use them. While we have people like Karen refusing to follow the guidelines, it puts everyone at risk.

[russellw]

Even allowing for the timing differences between the data I use (which is global) and the locally produced numbers, we still end up with ~716 new cases and 13 deaths for Australia both of which are a new daily record surpassing the 537 (Mar-28) and 10 (Jul-26).

[PhilT2]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

And it's only effective if people use them. While we have people like Karen refusing to follow the guidelines, it puts everyone at risk.

The two young women that were diagnosed with Covid yesterday were in Melbourne eight days ago. It is alleged they lied about their travels when they returned to Qld. One is co-operating with authorities and has disclosed the places she has visited since her return. The other has refused to disclose this information.
One of the schools affected is in my neighbourhood and there is some discussion around here about how many days in a cell might be necessary to bring about the required "attitude adjustment" Most are a bit open ended about that.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-...ation/12503248

[.:4:.]

Now granted my mum lives in nsw, but she went to qld with her boyfriend to visit his kids for a few weeks and was asked at the border to proove where she had been for the past 14 days. That was easy enough, 2 weeks of transaction history from the bank and prove its her card. Yes that could be falsified if you were a dodgy bastard. She also had to give a valid reason to cross the border. Her and her boyfriend were visiting/staying with his kids. Mind you his youngest is 45 or something. And they ask all the other questions etc.
But it really shows how all it takes is people doing the dodgey against recomendations to ruin it for everyone. Doctors and scientists didnt spend countless hours of reasearch and having to agree on moves to try and prevent the spread for no reason. Untill they develop a vacination, the 1%ers just need to do what the majority do, and just accept that at the moment, measures to prevent are the only known option that has seen any form of success in somewhat slowing things down. Its not as if the people doing the reasearch are pussy footing about, it just takes time to work it all out.

[gooseneck]

"whatever what-ever, I can do whatever I want"

Trust a couple of fuglies to screw this up.

[Yellow_Festiva]

They should throw those 2 cod fish in jail for 30 days...

Sorry, I can't call them ladies.

A fine is not enough....

[GasoLane]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

They should throw those 2 cod fish in jail for 30 days...

Sorry, I can't call them ladies.

A fine is not enough....

I do find it strange that (as far as I know) they are the only ones who have had their names as well as faces shown in the media.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I do find it strange that (as far as I know) they are the only ones who have had their names as well as faces shown in the media.

Look at them... probably at their request.

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by GasoLane

I do find it strange that (as far as I know) they are the only ones who have had their names as well as faces shown in the media.

The government didn't reveal their identity. It was the general public.

[gooseneck]

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...2a7a9dde2e064a

Remember that crazy tramp who blew off the checkpoint? facing up-to a $10,000 fine. Sounds reasonable.

Yeah keep laughing girl. I sure am. hahaha

[cheap]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

The government didn't reveal their identity. It was the general public.

More of the story is unfolding each day.

They did go to Melbourne, to steal\handbags?
They did host a drunken party at an Airbnb. Cops got called and shut down the 'gathering'

I wonder what their clients might be thinking?

[zilo]

Originally Posted by Polyal

Was listening to the ABC/BBC this morning and they were interviewing a ........

Sorry buddy...I tuned out when you mentioned the oestrogen infestation.

One pandemic is enough....

[zilo]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

If you truly believe what you're saying in this post, and not just saying it to raise a response, then it would have to be one of the most out of touch posts I've seen on these forums. And I've been on here for over 13 years.

13 years on a car forum makes you an expert on all topics and a judge and berate those who disagree with your..."expertise" .
My advice to add to your 13 years of wisdom is google "ad hominem"

[prydey]

Originally Posted by gooseneck

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/he...2a7a9dde2e064a

Remember that crazy tramp who blew off the checkpoint? facing up-to a $10,000 fine. Sounds reasonable.

Yeah keep laughing girl. I sure am. hahaha

Key phrase is 'up to'... I think we all know she won't get much more than a slap on the wrist.