My FGX XR8 denied warranty

[gcg2503]

Question I raise is this:

Do Ford troll the forums and get intel on which cars are tuned/tracked and mark it as warranty void on their system?

Dealerships are way too busy to run diagnostic on the BCM/PCMs etc

The sequence of events here does not compute....

[Charliewool]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Question I raise is this:

Do Ford troll the forums and get intel on which cars are tuned/tracked and mark it as warranty void on their system?

Dealerships are way too busy to run diagnostic on the BCM/PCMs etc

The sequence of events here does not compute....

This was happening on the release of the BA, way back on the "old forum".
Lots & lots of warranty claims denied through stuff posted there.
Spooly or Russell would remember...

[STINKY NINJA]

Thats why i never blabbed about taking my fg turbo ute to the drags while still under warranty,i sold it then spilled the beans lol

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by cs123

I appreciate that dealers have to handle a number of warranty claims that are caused by abuse but when their first reaction is to deny a claim it isn't cool.

damn straight

Originally Posted by vztrt

I would say refusing is to get rid of the people trying to pull one over Ford. By escalating it Ford then have gone to see why. Its not like people don't try and scam dealers on warranty when they shouldn't be entitled. If they investigated every time a person denying doing something that they shouldn't then we would be paying much more money for Ford products and services.

wot?

so to be clear, you think to reduce the burden of investigating claims it is sound policy to dismiss first, then if the customer persists investigate properly??

[CAT600]

Originally Posted by gcg2503

Question I raise is this:

Do Ford troll the forums and get intel on which cars are tuned/tracked and mark it as warranty void on their system?

Dealerships are way too busy to run diagnostic on the BCM/PCMs etc

The sequence of events here does not compute....

God I couldn't get a floor mat covered if that's the case

Daniel

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by russellw

We have been asked to post the following brief statement from FoA so we are doing so in the interest of fairness:

While Ford cannot comment on the specifics of Ben’s case, Ford stand behind the performance and durability of the XR8 and have been in contact to resolve the situation.

Regards
Russ

That's great FoA

We already knew you were watching, but here's an idea -

Maybe instead of searching our community for evidence upon which to deny warranty claims, you could consider using it to address the terrible service and treatment your most loyal customers receive on a regular basis

Here's another one for you

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...81#post5385781

oh, an incidentley, no doubt you have seen my avatar, and noted the drag strip activity as grounds to dismiss even the most obscure warranty claim, rest assured I only made one warranty claim when the car was 3 months old. After this traumatic and frustrating experience I vowed never to take the car back again, so even if it was within warranty, you would be the last to know of it, because my proud Aussie built car deserves far better than your new business policies would allow

[Ford17]

Hope everything works out between the OP and Ford with the warranty claim.
Genuine thoughts regarding this.

/* thread hack
Since it appears Ford themselves might be reading this thread; some hopeful suggestions:

1. Could Ford please add an extra clear coat or two (like with the last GT-F) on current XR8s being built, &

2. Could Ford please reconsider their sponsorship of our premier motorsport category - you know it's why we love these cars - 2 years reigning Bathurst champions with a potential 3rd looking very possible.

Thank you
thread hack*/

[GazzF6]

Originally Posted by russellw

We have been asked to post the following brief statement from FoA so we are doing so in the interest of fairness:

While Ford cannot comment on the specifics of Ben’s case, Ford stand behind the performance and durability of the XR8 and have been in contact to resolve the situation.

Regards
Russ

Thanks Russell, very comforting to know you are the voice of the (Ford) AFF, with with a dotted line to FoA, Kempy owes you a beer!

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Express

Human nature and the ease of trial by social media these days means as a whole we can easily forget the good things and without mercy crucify for the bad.

And that's the bit I have a problem with. People jump to conclusions without so much as having the benefit of all the evidence from both sides then start ripping into Ford.

For a forum supposedly devoted to Ford fans, there's way too much Ford bashing going on here.

Originally Posted by cheap

I think this thread also raises some interesting questions for Ford and the venue organiser

1) is it ford company policy to have its representatives monitor individuals in a public area conducting perfectly legal activities? If it is Ford company policy, where is this policy written and when did the driver agree to having his legal activities monitored?

It is perfectly legal for anyone to be a spectator at the drags. The driver doesn't have to agree to anything. Even if it is true that there was in fact somebody who monitors the drag strips, that representative from Ford don't even have to identify themselves.

Originally Posted by cheap

2) at any time, did Ford advise and receive permission from the venue organiser that they would be monitoring individuals whilst these individuals were conducting perfectly legal activities?

Unless it is a closed, invitation-only event, such a step is unnecessary.

Originally Posted by cheap

3) at any time, did the venue organiser advise the drivers that representatives from Ford were on-site monitoring and recording drivers/cars

Again, unless it is a closed, invitation-only event, or where the terms and conditions of entry forbid recording and imaging devices (I have yet to see any motorsport venue forbid the use of cameras), no law or condition of entry has been broken by doing so.

Originally Posted by cheap

4) at any time, did Ford representatives make themselves know and advise driver(s) that their perfectly legal activities were being recording

There is no law preventing what you do in public from being recorded. It's only what you do in private, e.g., in your own home, being recorded that legal issues arise.

Originally Posted by cheap

5) at any time, did Ford representatives make themselves known and advise any driver(s) that their perfectly legal activity, may be in potential breach of Ford warranty

It's in the warranty booklet under 'misuse'.

[ACTIV8]

I've seen Ford cover things that were not Warranty items in good faith and those times make me proud to be selling the product.

I ran my own business for 20 years and when I closed it down, I wanted to sell something that I was passionate about and believed in, hence selling Ford.

My GT-F is my 17th Aussie built Ford and I have never had anything but.

My hope is that Ford does consider the comments made by the most passionate Ford people that exist in this country, considers their opinions and makes a goodwill call.

Encouraged by the comment from Ford mentioned above...

[Trump]

Originally Posted by NX74205

It's in the warranty booklet under 'misuse'.

Have a read of the warranty booklet I posted a few pages ago, misuse is not defined at all.

[Whitey-AMG]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

That's great FoA

We already knew you were watching, but here's an idea -

Maybe instead of searching our community for evidence upon which to deny warranty claims,

I'm no legal expert but.....
As per the privacy policy on this site :

Information Collection

Fordforums Australia Inc is the sole owner of the information collected on Fordforums.com.au.


Doesn't that imply that Ford or anyone else would need permission from AFF to use that information including evidence against a warranty claim ? Is the privacy policy referring to personal information or "any" information posted on the site by a registered user ?

[devilcv8]

Originally Posted by EASYBOSS

That's great, but I have to wonder why Ford did not post it here themselves

Because then you'd know the identity of the FoA forum spy, and I wouldn't expose myself that easily....

Just kidding.
Oops,

[cheap]

The old bashing Ford chestnut.

Here is a thought, maybe Ford needs to update its warranty policy, so that in future people like me are not accused of bashing Ford, ditch the entire warranty booklet and have something along the lines of...

"The Ford company will use any material if finds available by whatever means, it will use the material however it sees fit and this material maybe used indefinitely to deny you warranty. Anything you do, up to and including nothing, may void you warranty."

[Brazen]

It's a shame that Ford Australia employee on this thread appeared to have known more than the OP.

How come he was told that it was his manner and behaviour of driving that denied then later we hear it was due to a suspected tune.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Have a read of the warranty booklet I posted a few pages ago, misuse is not defined at all.

And that's the point. This gives Ford the discretion.

You can't have an all inclusive definition of misuse, because a lot of things can fall under 'misuse', from driving into a swimming pool to (arguably) motorsport. First and foremost, the Falcon is a road car designed to seat 5 people and some luggage and transport them from A to B in comfort.

Ford are not doing anything that they are not legally entitled to do, nor are they doing anything differently from what other manufacturers would have done. Most other manufacturers exclude 'misuse' from warranty cover, but as the party providing the warranty, they have the discretion to warrant the car despite 'misuse'.

Sure, most of us would like Ford to exercise that broad discretion they have in favour of the customer, but if Ford doesn't come to the table in circumstances other than what is expressly covered by the warranty in black and white, I'd say tough, pay for it and move on. At least, that's what I'd do. It's cheaper than engaging lawyers.

Originally Posted by Bluey-GT

I'm no legal expert but.....
As per the privacy policy on this site :

Information Collection

Fordforums Australia Inc is the sole owner of the information collected on Fordforums.com.au.


Doesn't that imply that Ford or anyone else would need permission from AFF to use that information including evidence against a warranty claim ? Is the privacy policy referring to personal information or "any" information posted on the site by a registered user ?

Things posted in a publicly accessible forum by the members themselves do not come into the purview of the Privacy Act.

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by NX74205

And that's the point. This gives Ford the discretion.

You can't have an all inclusive definition of misuse, because a lot of things can fall under 'misuse', from driving into a swimming pool to (arguably) motorsport. First and foremost, the Falcon is a road car designed to seat 5 people and some luggage and transport them from A to B in comfort.

Ford are not doing anything that they are not legally entitled to do, nor are they doing anything differently from what other manufacturers would have done. Most other manufacturers exclude 'misuse' from warranty cover, but as the party providing the warranty, they have the discretion to warrant the car despite 'misuse'.

Sure, most of us would like Ford to exercise that broad discretion they have in favour of the customer, but if Ford doesn't come to the table in circumstances other than what is expressly covered by the warranty in black and white, I'd say tough, pay for it and move on. At least, that's what I'd do. It's cheaper than engaging lawyers.



Things posted in a publicly accessible forum by the members themselves do not come into the purview of the Privacy Act.

And what Ben has done here is a hell of a lot cheaper than 'paying for it and moving on' (which Ford would have loved), or 'engaging lawyers' .......he's just posted the problem on the forum and within a week or so has had 500 odd replies /over 20 000 views / his car picked up and Ford Australia is now all over it knowing over 20 0000 people are watching this case - how smart is that..........the lawyers would be devastated!! Absolutely priceless.

There are a lot of opinions being put forward here, right/wrong or debatable ...... who gives a toss, it's exhausting all avenues and I for one am waiting with baited breath to read the outcome.

[MDS69]

Originally Posted by NX74205

And that's the point. This gives Ford the discretion.

You can't have an all inclusive definition of misuse, because a lot of things can fall under 'misuse', from driving into a swimming pool to (arguably) motorsport. First and foremost, the Falcon is a road car designed to seat 5 people and some luggage and transport them from A to B in comfort.

Ford are not doing anything that they are not legally entitled to do, nor are they doing anything differently from what other manufacturers would have done. Most other manufacturers exclude 'misuse' from warranty cover, but as the party providing the warranty, they have the discretion to warrant the car despite 'misuse'.

Sure, most of us would like Ford to exercise that broad discretion they have in favour of the customer, but if Ford doesn't come to the table in circumstances other than what is expressly covered by the warranty in black and white, I'd say tough, pay for it and move on. At least, that's what I'd do. It's cheaper than engaging lawyers.



Things posted in a publicly accessible forum by the members themselves do not come into the purview of the Privacy Act.

In addition to the quote above some peoples definition of misuse will be different to others. Ford need to provide guidelines on what their definition is so everyone knows where they stand.
In society everyone knows the rules as they are law so you know where you stand that if you call someone stupid that is not breaking the law but punching them in the head is.
So along those lines Ford should provide some "laws" if you like that if you enter into a contract to purchase one of their products you know where you stand that if you slam the door shut that is not misuse but bouncing the engine off the rev limiter is (not saying that is the issue with the OP just my example for this reply)

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by NX74205

And that's the point. This gives Ford the discretion.

You can't have an all inclusive definition of misuse, because a lot of things can fall under 'misuse', from driving into a swimming pool to (arguably) motorsport. First and foremost, the Falcon is a road car designed to seat 5 people and some luggage and transport them from A to B in comfort.

Ford are not doing anything that they are not legally entitled to do, nor are they doing anything differently from what other manufacturers would have done. Most other manufacturers exclude 'misuse' from warranty cover, but as the party providing the warranty, they have the discretion to warrant the car despite 'misuse'.

Sure, most of us would like Ford to exercise that broad discretion they have in favour of the customer, but if Ford doesn't come to the table in circumstances other than what is expressly covered by the warranty in black and white, I'd say tough, pay for it and move on. At least, that's what I'd do. It's cheaper than engaging lawyers.



Things posted in a publicly accessible forum by the members themselves do not come into the purview of the Privacy Act.

I agree with most of what you have stated, but this is too narrow:

"First and foremost, the Falcon is a road car designed to seat 5 people and some luggage and transport them from A to B in comfort."

Any contract must be read as a whole, in a holistic sense. Comment above may apply to a base Falcon, a base camry, but an XR8, 5 litre super charged 4 valves per cylinder, 275/255 tyres, rspec suspension, brembo brakes- no - the fact that it is a sedan with sporting engineering built into it will be applied and accounted for in the term "misuse".

Just what would be misuse in terms of an XR8 would be defined given that context as well.

As I said before, you cannot apply "misuse" to an XR8 as you would to a 1.6 litre turbo diesel with a 5,000 rpm redline and shopping trolley brakes.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by chrisandsharon

I for one am waiting with baited breath to read the outcome.

Me too this is the most exciting thing going on since Game of Thrones Season 5

[asagaai]

Originally Posted by MDS69

In addition to the quote above some peoples definition of misuse will be different to others. Ford need to provide guidelines on what their definition is so everyone knows where they stand.
In society everyone knows the rules as they are law so you know where you stand that if you call someone stupid that is not breaking the law but punching them in the head is.
So along those lines Ford should provide some "laws" if you like that if you enter into a contract to purchase one of their products you know where you stand that if you slam the door shut that is not misuse but bouncing the engine off the rev limiter is (not saying that is the issue with the OP just my example for this reply)

Ford have given some examples- overloading, or using the vehicle on an inappropriate surface....

Overloading- you stuff 2 tonne lead in a Falcon boot and the springs pop- yeah-misuse.

You take an XR8 onto a rough as guts 4wd track and rip out diff and punch hole in sump-yeah misuse.

These are pretty extreme examples.

But the more subtle ones- ie revving out engine and hitting limiter on bends, or driving spirited for 20 minute session and boiling the brake fluids...these are the more subtle ones.

I would contend these subtle ones are not misuse in an XR8, may be in a shopping trolley 1.6 but who knows...?

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by NX74205

And that's the bit I have a problem with. People jump to conclusions without so much as having the benefit of all the evidence from both sides then start ripping into Ford.

For a forum supposedly devoted to Ford fans, there's way too much Ford bashing going on here.

Mate, I have first hand experience at how rubbish Ford treats its customers

Additionally I have spent the last couple of years getting to know a lot of people on here, many of whom have had similar negative experiences.

So on that basis I am comfortable to take Kempy's word over those ******.

I'm not sure, maybe the last new Ford you bought was many years ago, and you're living in the past. Things have changed. Business is obviously so good now Ford don't need customers. I can assure you it's not the way it used to be. Ford do all they can to make the ownership experience unpleasant.

Kempy's experience is one tiny drop in a very big bucket of crud

[GTP534]

To provide some levity, I think this would definitely void your warranty!!

Nice job though!

http://www.mustang6g.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22146

[EASYBOSS]

Originally Posted by Shonky.

Mate, I have first hand experience at how rubbish Ford treats its customers

Additionally I have spent the last couple of years getting to know a lot of people on here, many of whom have had similar negative experiences.

So on that basis I am comfortable to take Kempy's word over those ******.

I'm not sure, maybe the last new Ford you bought was many years ago, and you're living in the past. Things have changed. Business is obviously so good now Ford don't need customers. I can assure you it's not the way it used to be. Ford do all they can to make the ownership experience unpleasant.

Kempy's experience is one tiny drop in a very big bucket of crud

Ouch....

[PepeLePew]

It's interesting we see the forums as the world. It isn't. Every forum has the best examples of issues, they attract those examples by their very nature. It's a cry for help, sometimes justified, sometimes not. In my own world circle. I have people that don't push the boundary of their warranty. And there is a very very good dealer here we are lucky to have that I've heard very few negatives about. And by experience it s the same, it's those that push the boundary of their warranty that end up disenchanted. Or have a crap dealer that just don't handle their issues appropriately. The venom in this thread is far more disenchanting to me than any warranty experience I or any of my circle of friends and acquaintances have ever had. Many statements suggesting we should attract goodwill and gestures from FoA in between a river of posts kicking FoA for not blindly backing their products so we can do with them whatever we feel like for 3 years from purchases and not pay to play.

I'm not referring to Kempys situation, this thread has gone far beyond that. Maybe I'm just an old fart and I miss the days we used to come on here and enjoy the brand and our cars.

[cheap]

Imagine buying a sound system from Myers, then having the audacity to turn it on full volume for 12-14 seconds and the amp blows up. You would have zero issues taking it back to Myers and getting a refund. Now imagine you've bought a XR8...

[GTP534]

Originally Posted by cheap

Imagine buying a sound system from Myers, then having the audacity to turn it on full volume for 12-14 seconds and the amp blows up. You would have zero issues taking it back to Myers and getting a refund. Now imagine you've bought a XR8...

Yes, but what if it has been opened, you know, those little screws with a seal with "void if removed"?

What would Myer do then?

Honestly, for every horror story somebody raises about Ford there's a good story to counter that.

I've been very fortunate in my dealings with Ford - there's a good relationship between me and the dealer for the past 12 years.

Before that it wasn't too good with a different Ford dealer and so I just went to another dealer.

[cheap]

^ no unscrewing was mentioned, so why would you throw such a red herring out there? Do you work for Ford?

[Falcon Coupe]

Seems after 18 pages of speculation some still don't get what the issue is here...

[chrisandsharon]

Originally Posted by GTP534

Before that it wasn't too good with a different Ford dealer and so I just went to another dealer.

Likewise with me - thank god for Ford Nowra. I'd buy a Holden over walking back into the original dealership I bought the F6 from. We didn't even get to the 1000km check up before running from them. Ford Nowra have restored my faith - great bunch of people that I'm getting to know more and more.