Will the Holden brand survive?

[Bossxr8]

GM has bailed out of India, Europe, South Africa. Australia looks to join a list of RHD markets GM could not care less about.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

GM has bailed out of India, Europe, South Africa. Australia looks to join a list of RHD markets GM could not care less about.

I'm concerned about what Mr Hackett is planning for Ford's ROW business,
especially for RHD markets. We may find ourselves in a similar position with
regards Ford pulling the plug on developing RHD versions of its products.

Rather than quit outright, I suspect that RHD vehicles will be outsourced to
another manufacturer as a job lot, be that VW in Europe or perhaps Mazda
or some other RHD friendly manufacturer in Asian / Australian markets..

[CyberWasp]

This is next level Reality TV at its best.
The Series 'How not to run a Car Company' has me hooked.
I've got it Series Linked and waiting for the next episode.

[MrZ]

In January 2016, Holden said that 22 new models will arrive before 2020:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/top...e-fast-holdens

At the time, I said - impossible. They don't even sell 22 models in total across their entire range! Let's look at how many new vehicles they've *actually* launched since early 2016 (I will count facelifts as "new", and different body styles as separate):

Utes/SUVs:

1) Trailblazer (facelift)
2) Trax (facelift)
3) Captiva (facelift)
4) Equinox
5) Acadia
6) Colorado (facelift)

Passenger:

7) Astra hatch
8) Astra sedan
9) Astra wagon
10) Commodore
11) Commodore Tourer
12) Commodore Sportwagon

So, we're at 12. Even if we were to count the Camaro and Silverado, that's only 14. Is it likely we'll see 8 new models before the end of the year?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Wretched

It was inevitable, there are no cars under the Holden name being developed.
It is a pity as there are a number of engineers still working at Holden.

Just hired a few more last year.

[turbo4]

Originally Posted by MrZ

In January 2016, Holden said that 22 new models will arrive before 2020:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/top...e-fast-holdens

Didn't they also say that they would be number 1 in sales again by 2020 as well? They were also going to release a new rear wheel drive performance car...
They were making lots of promises around that time....

[beau4.0]

Possibly not in Supercars. If the Mustang performs as good as it looks Fords gonna drive away with supercars championship.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by MrZ

In January 2016, Holden said that 22 new models will arrive before 2020:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/top...e-fast-holdens

At the time, I said - impossible. They don't even sell 22 models in total across their entire range! Let's look at how many new vehicles they've *actually* launched since early 2016 (I will count facelifts as "new", and different body styles as separate):

Utes/SUVs:

1) Trailblazer (facelift)
2) Trax (facelift)
3) Captiva (facelift)
4) Equinox
5) Acadia
6) Colorado (facelift)

Passenger:

7) Astra hatch
8) Astra sedan
9) Astra wagon
10) Commodore
11) Commodore Tourer
12) Commodore Sportwagon

So, we're at 12. Even if we were to count the Camaro and Silverado, that's only 14. Is it likely we'll see 8 new models before the end of the year?

Kingswood
Kingswood Deluxe
Kingswood Vacationer
Kingswood SL
Belmont
Premier
Monaro
Brougham

One can dream (or type this in lieu of dreaming...)

[Sprintey]

There was a link with the article to this one:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/features...actory-closure

And a great quote from Peter Hannenberger:

“I was very independent,” he told Wheels. “I couldn’t give a **** what they thought in America. I was working for Australia and Holden.”

Hannenberger was the engineer that developed RTS in the Torana and Kingswood, and later MD that took the VT-VZ platform and created an amazing variety of models off it - the Monaro, the Crewman, the Adventra, 4wd systems, the One Tonner. It's possible to now find V8 AWD wagons, AWD one tonners and even an AWD V8 dual Cab amongst todays dealers in the used car section! Not to mention the all-paw Monaro! These really make the 1970s classics look positively plain in mechanical spec.

He was contemporary of Geoff Polites, and both men were passionate advocates of Australian design and building here. When you lose that determination and direction at the top, you get trouble, as the revolving door of MDs after them shows, in both Ford and Holden's local operations.

So for the great popcorn pic, what have we learned? How would we go about it next time?

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by turbo4

Didn't they also say that they would be number 1 in sales again by 2020 as well? They were also going to release a new rear wheel drive performance car...
They were making lots of promises around that time....

Yes, it seems they did back in 2014.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by beau4.0

Possibly not in Supercars. If the Mustang performs as good as it looks Fords gonna drive away with supercars championship.

If I was in charge of v8 supercars I,d be worried about Holden staying around.

I don't even see the point of Holden spending money on v8 supercars.

[lra]

Originally Posted by beau4.0

Possibly not in Supercars. If the Mustang performs as good as it looks Fords gonna drive away with supercars championship.

Do supercar spectators care what brand wins these days ?
I think it is like Nascar, the fans 'follow' a driver.
If you were a Frosty fan, are you going to boo him this year ?

[jpd80]

There's only one driver I know that could switch brands successfully
and keep fans' respect and that was Craig Lowndes.

Ford Motor is only interested V8SC when it gives products like Mustang
great exposure without spending much on teams.

[4stanger]

Originally Posted by kevino

If I was in charge of v8 supercars I,d be worried about Holden staying around.

I don't even see the point of Holden spending money on v8 supercars.

Discussions are supposed to be held soon, regarding 2020 and beyond, article from January 2018. Current deal with 888 ends this year https://www.foxsports.com.au/motorsp...400b393674b671

https://fordforums.com.au/showpost.p...4&postcount=32

A lot of positive PR at the time, surely they can't keep this spin going

any success they have had with the supercars series, is not helping holden,

Roland & 888 have done well, to get what they have out of holden, can 888 possibly get any more from holden, going into the future?

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by kevino

If I was in charge of v8 supercars I,d be worried about Holden staying around.

I don't even see the point of Holden spending money on v8 supercars.

I'd say they are.

https://www.speedcafe.com/2019/02/08...en-discussion/

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by jpd80

I'm concerned about what Mr Hackett is planning for Ford's ROW business,
especially for RHD markets. We may find ourselves in a similar position with
regards Ford pulling the plug on developing RHD versions of its products.

Rather than quit outright, I suspect that RHD vehicles will be outsourced to
another manufacturer as a job lot, be that VW in Europe or perhaps Mazda
or some other RHD friendly manufacturer in Asian / Australian markets..

I think a big clue at how GM and Ford see markets outside of the US , is seen in your borrowed acronym ROW. Rest of World is awfully dismissive.
Ford have USA and Europe (hows that going?)
GM have USA and China and......(crickets).....
GM in its current guise has NO interest in developing RHD now that Opel is gone.

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

Going....going....


https://www.whichcar.com.au/car-news...TGM7IAZly8w1t8

From sources I know, there is going to be another big Holden announcement around May/June, which will include a reduced model lineup of 4-5 vehicles and more dumping of dealerships.

Also, PSA haven't built a single Astra and Commodore for Holden for 2019 and don't look like starting up again. Apparently the Astra and Commodore will not longer be part of Holden's lineup by the end of 2019, in their current form. So it will look like the reduced model lineup is going to be all SUV's and a Ute - Trax, Equinox, Acadia, Trailblazer and Colorado, leaving Holden with no passengers cars to sell.

The big announcement could also be GM's move to place Holden under a third party control - cue Inchcape! If this happens, I'm almost betting the Holden name will live on and Inchcape will plug Holden's lineup with Opel's rebadged as Holden's.

Inchcape have held the distribution rights to Subaru in Australia for years and have done well with the brand. Recently they acquired the two PSA brands, Peugeot and Citroen from Sime Darby, but sales have continued to decline for both brands in Australia, so it would be interesting to see how a new look Holden would go under their control.

Inchcape and the way they've handled Citroen in Australia has not gone down well Citroen enthusiast's, after shutting down one of Australia's most trusted and well respected Citroen dealers in NSW, it's main market, as well as not offering the service backup the brand needs nationally. They wouldn't want to make the same mistake with Holden, otherwise they'd lose the rest of the Holden faithful's!

It's going to be an interesting 6 months!

[kevino]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

From sources I know, there is going to be another big Holden announcement around May/June, which will include a reduced model lineup of 4-5 vehicles and more dumping of dealerships.

Also, PSA haven't built a single Astra and Commodore for Holden for 2019 and don't look like starting up again. Apparently the Astra and Commodore will not longer be part of Holden's lineup by the end of 2019, in their current form. So it will look like the reduced model lineup is going to be all SUV's and a Ute - Trax, Equinox, Acadia, Trailblazer and Colorado, leaving Holden with no passengers cars to sell.

The big announcement could also be GM's move to place Holden under a third party control - cue Inchcape! If this happens, I'm almost betting the Holden name will live on and Inchcape will plug Holden's lineup with Opel's rebadged as Holden's.

Inchcape have held the distribution rights to Subaru in Australia for years and have done well with the brand. Recently they acquired the two PSA brands, Peugeot and Citroen from Sime Darby, but sales have continued to decline for both brands in Australia, so it would be interesting to see how a new look Holden would go under their control.

Inchcape and the way they've handled Citroen in Australia has not gone down well Citroen enthusiast's, after shutting down one of Australia's most trusted and well respected Citroen dealers in NSW, it's main market, as well as not offering the service backup the brand needs nationally. They wouldn't want to make the same mistake with Holden, otherwise they'd lose the rest of the Holden faithful's!

It's going to be an interesting 6 months!

How many new ZB,s are sitting on the grass in Australia -700 or 7000?

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by kevino

How many new ZB,s are sitting on the grass in Australia -700 or 7000?

Sorry, that I haven't been told, but I could find out. Apparently they have enough to get them through the next 5-6 months and considering their sales figures for the past few months, between 350 - 450 a month, they won't be running out in a hurry.

In October/November last year, Holden had around 4,000 Astra sedans sitting in storage, hence the big DEMO sale for them in November and December and continuing through to 2019. Even though Holden hasn't made any formal announcement, the Astra sedan and wagon are dead in Australia, now just leaving the hatch, for now.

[Windsor220]

What happens tp HSV? Will they continue on?

[Nikked]

I think HSV can continue on regardless of what Holden do, to be honest, this would be the main reason why their business model has been switched to RHD conversions.

If HSV continue a good relationship with chevrolet, i can see them expanding the range slightly with other products...potentially Cadillacs.

In effect, HSV will become the manufacturer that has weathered the storm.

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by MrZ

In January 2016, Holden said that 22 new models will arrive before 2020:

https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/top...e-fast-holdens

At the time, I said - impossible. They don't even sell 22 models in total across their entire range! Let's look at how many new vehicles they've *actually* launched since early 2016 (I will count facelifts as "new", and different body styles as separate):

Utes/SUVs:

1) Trailblazer (facelift)
2) Trax (facelift)
3) Captiva (facelift)
4) Equinox
5) Acadia
6) Colorado (facelift)

Passenger:

7) Astra hatch
8) Astra sedan
9) Astra wagon
10) Commodore
11) Commodore Tourer
12) Commodore Sportwagon

So, we're at 12. Even if we were to count the Camaro and Silverado, that's only 14. Is it likely we'll see 8 new models before the end of the year?

The Holden Spark, facelifted Holden Barina hatch, Holden Cascada convertible, Holden Astra GTC/VXR hatch and Holden Insignia VXR, were also included in that 22 new models, I think?

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by kevino

How many new ZB,s are sitting on the grass in Australia -700 or 7000?

I've been told they have roughly 4,300 Commodores, which would include vehicles at dealers, vehicles sitting 'on the grass' in storage and in transit - still waiting to make land. That would be more than enough to last them for 2019 and possibly 2020, if they make it that far.

The current ZB Commodore and BK Astra will never be marketed as an Opel in Australia, as they're still being built under license from GM and PSA is trying to move them over to PSA platforms as quickly as possible. IF the Commodore and Astra ever make it back to Australia, it'll be under the Opel badge and will be moving on PSA platforms. Unless Inchcape, PSA and GM come to some sort of agreement, if GM hands distribution rights over to Inchcape, then we could see them keep their Holden badges.

[MrZ]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

The Holden Spark, facelifted Holden Barina hatch, Holden Cascada convertible, Holden Astra GTC/VXR hatch and Holden Insignia VXR, were also included in that 22 new models, I think?

Sorry, you're right - Spark and Barina facelift make it 14. Cascada, Astra (PJ), and Insignia were all released in early 2015 - a year before Holden made this announcement, so they would be not be counted. However, theoretically, if they were, we're still only at 17.

[Brazen]

I always thought the later Spark was a good little micro car. Probably no money in it though

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

I've been told they have roughly 4,300 Commodores, which would include vehicles at dealers, vehicles sitting 'on the grass' in storage and in transit - still waiting to make land. That would be more than enough to last them for 2019 and possibly 2020, if they make it that far.

The current ZB Commodore and BK Astra will never be marketed as an Opel in Australia, as they're still being built under license from GM and PSA is trying to move them over to PSA platforms as quickly as possible. IF the Commodore and Astra ever make it back to Australia, it'll be under the Opel badge and will be moving on PSA platforms. Unless Inchcape, PSA and GM come to some sort of agreement, if GM hands distribution rights over to Inchcape, then we could see them keep their Holden badges.

I’d be very surprised if we ever see Opel here again. Not after last time.

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I always thought the later Spark was a good little micro car. Probably no money in it though

Absolutely, I agree! It's so far ahead of the previous 'Barina Spark', it's not funny! But the Kia Picanto wipes it with the floor, especially in GT Line and GT specs! Actually, the newly released Picanto GT, which is manual only, is a little ripper!

[Brazen]

Haven’t driven the GT but I thought the Spark was better than the normal Picanto S. both good cars for the money though but preferred the Sparks more modern 1.4litre to the Picanto old school 1.25

[Eurotrash]

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I’d be very surprised if we ever see Opel here again. Not after last time.

I think you're right. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next 6 months.

PSA is looking to expand Opel globally and Australia would be very much part of the plan I'd imagine, but how they do it, will be the big question. It failed last time because GM didn't give it half a chance, PSA on the hand is in it for the long road. Opel is already making money under PSA, something GM couldn't do for years with the brand.

[Vormund]

Originally Posted by Eurotrash

the Astra sedan and wagon are dead in Australia, now just leaving the hatch, for now.

Regarding the Sedan, that comes from S.Korea and they stopped making that in May 2018 according to Wikipedia.

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

I’d be very surprised if we ever see Opel here again. Not after last time.

Time to whip out the Vauxhall badge then