Ford Announces New Engine Direction

[Perana]

Originally Posted by King Nothing

BFII Barra I6 - 190kw, 383 Nm
Duratec 35 - 198kw, 339 Nm
VE 3.6L Alloytech - 180kw, 330 Nm

I sure hope we get the Duratec 37 instead (due for a 2009 release), 44 Nm is quite a drop! Looks like it'll be a v8 for me next time. I drive an alloytech at work, no low down torque, no thank you.

Duratec 37 based on latest reports will have 205kw and 366 Nm

[UHW]

This morning's "Confirmation" was all based on rumors from the Media and Government

It was confirmed on ABC radio by the Minister at 10.30 this morning.
Not a rumour. Fact.
Read the transcript.

[King Nothing]

Just to throw it into the mix

Toyota Aurion
200kW @ 6200rpm
336Nm @ 4700rpm

[King Nothing]

Originally Posted by UHW

It was confirmed on ABC radio by the Minister at 10.30 this morning.
Not a rumour. Fact.
Read the transcript.

Thats right, confirmed by a politician, not ford itself. The press release from ford came out this arvo. Since when was a politicians word worth anything anyway?

[Donut King]

Originally Posted by UHW

maybe there is enough time to get a deal going to build the V6 here.
2010 is a long way off, still time to do a deal?
Misplaced optimism??

They are investigating the viability of local production of the V6 as per their communication to employees, they aren't (and shouldn't) make any promises though

[Mark351]

Just watch the news tonight, you might notice where the press conference was held.

[Perana]

Originally Posted by UHW

It was confirmed on ABC radio by the Minister at 10.30 this morning.
Not a rumour. Fact.
Read the transcript.

To me a rumor becomes fact when the Party/Company/Individual involved actually confirms it.. Not from Second/Third hand info handed out to the media. If i beleived everything the Government and Media told me i would believe that 3km/hr Speed tolerences save lives and to bring back a rumor started by people here and reported by members of the media that the BA Falcon would have a V10 variant.

[UHW]

Since when was a politicians word worth anything anyway?

I usually agree. But he had talks with the Management and agreed to
more dough to keep propping them up ......don't know for how much longer though! :evil3:
The only reason Ford help off is because they were meeting with employees at 1pm.
(Heck everyone in the industry has known a week! ...Read Go Auto)

[UHW]

Just lock the thread and start again if things get too hot...

[rodderz]

It wouldnt suprise me that Ford Oz wanted to keep the I6, but it also wouldnt suprise me that they have opted for this decision as a lot of overseas work could come their way.

It's looking increasingly like Orion and beyond could be exported, plus the smaller car they will also be producing, so it does make smart business sense to structure the company around this, and can make things considerably cheaper to suit the global styling and parts sharing.

I would rather keep an I6, it does seem a lot better than any other 6cyl in Australia at the moment, but I guess decisions like this have to be made. Those who run a business will know of such big decisions to make work for the better.

[Donut King]

Originally Posted by UHW

Just lock the thread and start again if things get too hot...

It wasn't a case of things getting too hot, just a matter of having an old thread based on speculation, vs a new thread with actual confirmed information straight from the horses mouth. If something is too "hot" it is deleted, not simply closed.

As always, if you have issues with the way this has been handled, please feel free to take it up with the site admin.

Ford have the global 4cyl going well, Duratec HE range, from 1.4-2.3L, Direct Injection, Turbo, VCT even a Hybrid model all avaliable.

Its in the US Focus, Euro Focus II, Mondeo, Fiesta ST, Mazda 3, Mazda 6, Mazda MX5, Ford Escape/Mazda Tribute, Mazda MPV, in other markets Ford Ranger and Mazda B-series, Transit, CMax, SMax.

[Mark351]

There is one key thing many of us are forgetting - if an Australian Falcon shares a US engine, think of the cheap performance parts!

Imagine if the yanks get a left hook Falcons, whole bolt on kit availability!! Even better if the Aussie dollar stays high as it is.

[Ghiadude]

CLASS LEADING TORQUE = GONE. Its what made the falcon the relaxed cruiser. If it wasnt for this engine i wouldnt be able to travel the long kays that i do. She stays in overdrive from my driveway to my work. I wouldnt have it any other way

[Ives]

Well that's a shame, I heard that the Barra I6 is a good engine.

[xr8ute]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

Imagine if the yanks get a left hook Falcons, whole bolt on kit availability!! Even better if the Aussie dollar stays high as it is.

A Kenne Bell blown V6 Falcon would certainly be a lot of fun

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by DeathXR

There is one key thing many of us are forgetting - if an Australian Falcon shares a US engine, think of the cheap performance parts!

Imagine if the yanks get a left hook Falcons, whole bolt on kit availability!! Even better if the Aussie dollar stays high as it is.

very big plus... look at the mustang parts lists and ET's OMFG!!!

[Dezza]

What a shame. The 4.0 litre straight 6 is a great engine, much better than most V6s. I just won't be able to get used to the idea of a V6 Falcon. It also means the Falcon will be less Australian, so that's also a shame. Overall, I don't reckon it's a good move. Probably won't have much effect on sales but for the enthusiasts, it's a real kick in the guts.

[blackwood]

At least we will have the I6 until the Falcon's 50th anniversary.

I would love to see a special model in 2010 to celebrate the 50th/farewell I6.
But it'll probably never happen.

[Donut King]

Originally Posted by ea_silver_ghia

What a shame. The 4.0 litre straight 6 is a great engine, much better than most V6s. I just won't be able to get used to the idea of a V6 Falcon. It also means the Falcon will be less Australian, so that's also a shame. Overall, I don't reckon it's a good move. Probably won't have much effect on sales but for the enthusiasts, it's a real kick in the guts.

"The Duratec 35 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2007."

Nah, must be crap _

[UHW]

It wasn't a case of things getting too hot, just a matter of having an old thread based on speculation, vs a new thread with actual confirmed information straight from the horses mouth. If something is too "hot" it is deleted, not simply closed.

As always, if you have issues with the way this has been handled, please feel free to take it up with the site admin.

I do have issues with people closing threads.
No other site i am a member of closes threads.....
Very dodgy, Very sly and you talk about politicians and their dirty tricks.
Who is running this site?

They don't work for Ford do they??

[King Nothing]

mate, calm down. Nobody wants the thread locked, am Im sure you won't want a banning

[Donut King]

Originally Posted by UHW

I do have issues with people closing threads.
No other site i am a member of closes threads.....
Very dodgy, Very sly and you talk about politicians and their dirty tricks.
Who is running this site?

They don't work for Ford do they??

Nothing sly about it, a press release was made available and rather than post based on speculation a new thread was made where the facts could be discussed.

This site is not owned or operated by Ford, as such they played no part in the decision.

Do us all a favour and go back to your mythical utopia where threads never need to be closed and everybody dances in circles holding hands, there's no conspiracy theories for you here.

[Perana]

The Duratec 37 is going to have MORE torque than the AU I6 had.. but then they must've been crap for towing.. Hell even the Duratec 35 has more torque than an ED I6.. but hey that was no good at towing either...

It's all about gearing and just because a Torque figure is lower or higher in the rev range its not about the peak anyway.. It's all about the Area under the torque curve.

I do have issues with people closing threads.
No other site i am a member of closes threads.....
Very dodgy, Very sly and you talk about politicians and their dirty tricks.
Who is running this site?

They don't work for Ford do they??

Obviously not a member of OCAU or Whirlpool or many other forums for that matter!

[dac260]

Originally Posted by TZENU

I would be more concerned with the fact that potentially 600 Ford workers will be unemployed come 2010..

that's the issue here, who cares what motor they choose... 600 families will be affected here.

[niko]

New model Ford may offset job losses

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Ian Porter
July 18, 2007 - 3:15PM
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Ford Australia has confirmed rampant speculation by announcing it will cease manufacture of its Barra inline six-cylinder engine at Geelong in 2010.

But the company also indicated that some of the 600 jobs lost in the regional centre could be offset by further hiring at the Broadmeadows assembly plant, where the company is planning to introduce a third model next to the Falcon and Territory.

Ford president Tom Gorman said the decision to close the engine plant was not completely locked in yet as the company had agreed to a State Government request to conduct a feasibility study into assembling or even manufacturing the Duratec V6 engine it wants to use after 2010.

Mr Gorman said the company would conduct the study "with an open mind", but he indicated that the numbers were against a local engine.

"The engine we will be taking from 2010 will come from an engine facility that is going to produce over 1 million engines a year and the economics of that are quite powerful."

A 'difficult and emotional decision'

He said Ford Australia could not justify the investment that would be needed to tool up for a new six-cylinder engine at Geelong when production volumes would only be 70,000 units a year.

"Having an orphan engine is a tough road to hoe, particularly when volumes are so small," Mr Gorman said.

He said it had been a difficult and emotional decision given the impact it was likely to have on Geelong and the company's workforce in that city. After the engine plant closure, there would be around 1400 people manning the panel stamping plant and smaller operations in Geelong. There are currently 3000 people working at Broadmeadows.

"There is no way we would take this on and make this level of a difficult decision - an emotionally difficult decision for Geelong and the people of Geelong - (unless) it was the right decision for the future of Ford."

Possibility of exports to US

Ford Australia would be a stronger operation and the use of the global V6 engine would help tie the local operation closer to the struggling group's international operations and improve the possibility of larger exports from Australia.

"In many ways the adoption of a corporate engine and corporate power train solution brings us closer to being a part of the global corporate decision on that front," Mr Gorman said.

Using the same engine and transmissions as used in American models may open the prospects of Ford Australia exporting to the US and other markets, but Mr Gorman would not be drawn on this.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by dac260

that's the issue here, who cares what motor they choose... 600 families will be affected here.

They have plenty of notice and should, within 3 years either:

A) Retrain over the next 3 years, take a healthy redundancy package, move on
B) Reallocate to a different division within Ford if possible.

It's not like Ford has announced closure of all Australian manufacturing facilities effective next month. There's plenty of warning - and to be honest I'm always a little confused as to why so many people always put such confidence in their employer for such a long time.

There have been plenty of other corporate collapses in Australia that have effected a lot more than 600 people with little chance of ever gaining their employee entitlements. A few like Ansett, HIH, Onetel, Bridgecorp and Fincorp come to mind. Geelong needs to be put in perspective.

What may cause issue will be for the suppliers of the i6 manufacturing components. Many of these smaller firms factor much of their earnings on contracts with the big four, and given the current 3 will be more like 2 in the near future, we may see a couple of these go insolvent.

[Tles]

Originally Posted by Perana XR8

Not unsurprising really.. While it's disappointing that the Falcon wont have a straight 6, The 3.7L Duratec does look quite promising, with possible Direct Injection etc. also the TwinForce version looks quite promising for XR6T and FPV versions. I can see why the I6 has been dropped. The business case for modernising it wouldn't have looked very good I'm sure!

I wouldn't be worrying too much about the Duratec 35/37 engine being a course POS like the Alloytec, they are vastly different engines.. The Duratec 35 is derived from the Jaguar AJV6 which in itself was originally an improved version of the Duratec 25/30. Go and Drive an S-Type V6 or the forthcoming CX-9 Mazda to see what its actually like BEFORE you bag it!

Those that are deluded into thinking a current car is going to be worth something cause it has an I6 will be sorely disappointed when it doesn't happen! 99% of people do NOT understand/care what an Inline6 and a V6 actually is.. just look at all the reports in the media last week about the Inline V6 Falcon engine being discontinued!

To me this is most disappointing for those who lose their job's. I hope Ford can work something out as stated to keep the majority of them in FoMoCo in another area. Good on Ford for announcing it now, giving workers time to find new employment too. I'm glad they didn't do a Mitsubishi in that regard! Finally good luck to all the workers!

Yeah someone on the ball.
The current Duratec 3.5 was in the world's top ten engines (Ward's) even without direct injection. Cleveland which built 3.0 Duratecs for Escape and Taurus has been shuttered for a year and is being retooled for 3.5/3.7 Duratecs and Mazda's version the MZi, from what I can gather. I've driven Stypes and will try the CX9, like I did the CX7.
With 200kw+ and 320nm min the 3.7 should be a good engine for a Falcon though typically V6s produce their torque higher in the rev range. The Twin force looks an outstanding donk.
Simply, the I6 is a victim of Ford Australia's engineering and design success and capability. The BF Falcon is a better ride and drive than a Mustang or Lincoln. Orion is a world class car and will now be part of the worldwide development program like the T6 program. Hopefully the T6 is similar enough to a dualcab Territory RTV.

Good luck to Ford and good luck to all workers and suppliers too.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Donut King

"The Duratec 35 was on the Ward's 10 Best Engines list for 2007."

Nah, must be crap _

Yeah some people.......pfffft.

The Duratec V6 is state of the art and best in class (it is better then most - including the GM V6's).

It has LOTS of room for development AND some great HI-PO versions coming.

The I6 was great in it's day and it's time is over, it was great while it lasted, but the decision has been made. Tarrif reductions and the Aussie dollar have killed the Aussie made & designed engine.

I'm looking forward to seeing the new powertrain lineup in 3 years.

[4Vman]

I dont know why people are getting their panties in a knot over the possibility that the I6 configuration maybe replaced by a V6 configuration, it doesnt matter where the pistons are in relation to each other, the head design and induction design largely determines where and how the power and torque is made. Its a fact that the V6 is a more compact platform so if they design a decent replacement for the I6 it will create design opportunities for the Falcon in years to come.
That said its way too premature to get too concerned beyond speculation and "what if"... Allot can happen and change in 3 years.....