Vfacts May 2009 - Page 2

phillyc · 03-06-2009, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDManual

Is ford going to get an RTV back in the dealerships?

Thats a car that people want...a mate of mine wanted one, couldnt get one so bought a new hilux 4x4 single cab tray....

Email Ford and ask for an RTV to be produced. If enough people do, then maybe they will. Also let them know about your mate. Clearly he was a buyer.

Road_Warrior · 03-06-2009, 08:30 PM

Did they sell enough BA and BF RTV's to justify the R&D costs though? It's not just a simple 'parts bin' car, there are some parts that are unique to the RTV which would have had to have been developed.

Personally I'd like to see Ford adapt the Territory AWD front end to the ute and offer an AWD ute for those who want/need the AWD capability but don't want the kidney-smashing antics of the Lolux. But Holden already tried that with the Cross6 and they didnt sell too many.

Dr Smith · 03-06-2009, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Did they sell enough BA and BF RTV's to justify the R&D costs though? It's not just a simple 'parts bin' car, there are some parts that are unique to the RTV which would have had to have been developed.

Personally I'd like to see Ford adapt the Territory AWD front end to the ute and offer an AWD ute for those who want/need the AWD capability but don't want the kidney-smashing antics of the Lolux. But Holden already tried that with the Cross6 and they didnt sell too many.

With Ford Aust. developing the T6 to replace Ranger/Mazda I can't see them ever doing a Falcon 4x4 unless it was a shared global platform with greater amortisation of costs. Imagine however if the engineers had some spare time (we all know they don't ) and they played with a Falcon body on a T6 platform?

phillyc · 03-06-2009, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Did they sell enough BA and BF RTV's to justify the R&D costs though? It's not just a simple 'parts bin' car, there are some parts that are unique to the RTV which would have had to have been developed.

Personally I'd like to see Ford adapt the Territory AWD front end to the ute and offer an AWD ute for those who want/need the AWD capability but don't want the kidney-smashing antics of the Lolux. But Holden already tried that with the Cross6 and they didnt sell too many.

Well, the number of them i've seen on the road would suggest that it was a reasonable seller. Don't know particular numbers, but probably 100-200 a month for the RTV. The resale on those RTV utes (have been looking for an AU/BA ute) is damn high too!

Yes, it would be great to see Ford put a 4wd ute out there, but really, the RTV with it's 'locker' rear end is quite capable.

Perhaps adding 4wd might just be adding temptation to go further off road and is probably not the best option with inadequate clearance / underbody protection etc. Therefore requiring even further R&D to prevent problems. IMO people would TRY and get a Falcon Ute further off road than a Terri! But it could be a reasonable seller with maybe 200 a month again.

If people want an RTV or any particular Falcon / Terri etc, then email Ford.

PS Ford is developing a much better Ranger, the T6 too.

Nikked · 03-06-2009, 09:10 PM

Comforting numbers IMO, eating away at sectors and not showing a massive loss. While not great, its encouraging.

WOTDAH · 03-06-2009, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

Personally I'd like to see Ford adapt the Territory AWD front end to the ute and offer an AWD ute for those who want/need the AWD capability but don't want the kidney-smashing antics of the Lolux. But Holden already tried that with the Cross6 and they didnt sell too many.

I saw a prototype of an AWD Falcan ute about 5 years ago. Must have been canned.

Rodp · 04-06-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EDManual

Is ford going to get an RTV back in the dealerships?

Thats a car that people want...a mate of mine wanted one, couldnt get one so bought a new hilux 4x4 single cab tray....

Why didn't they want it last time? I can only recall seeing perhaps 2 or 3 on the road, despite the advertising campaign it had all those years ago.

05MkIIFutura · 04-06-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazed

We have Navara and Hilux in the top 10, just those two equal over 5100 sales in one month! come on ford where is the Falcon RTV?

Its obvious now more than ever that lifestyle orientated utes sell.

These utes have had a jab in the arm because of the government tax break for businesses to buy new cars. This is just a whole heap of tradies and companies taking the oppurtunity to depreciate their utes twice. These sales will fall off in a month or two.

Road_Warrior · 04-06-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

With Ford Aust. developing the T6 to replace Ranger/Mazda I can't see them ever doing a Falcon 4x4 unless it was a shared global platform with greater amortisation of costs. Imagine however if the engineers had some spare time (we all know they don't ) and they played with a Falcon body on a T6 platform?

I wouldnt consider placing the ute on the T6 platform because the T6 is probably going to be body on frame and the Falcon is monocoque, however the only way an AWD (as opposed to 4x4) Falcon ute would sell I think is to people who don't want and need a kidney smasher, want the car-like driving dynamics of the Falcon but still require some semblance of off-road capability that you won't be able to acheive with a RWD-only diff locker. But this is pie in the sky stuff I'm talking about here, it will never happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WOTDAH

I saw a prototype of an AWD Falcan ute about 5 years ago. Must have been canned.

Was that project Grizzly or was there a follow-on car built after that? What model was the ute you saw?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Why didn't they want it last time? I can only recall seeing perhaps 2 or 3 on the road, despite the advertising campaign it had all those years ago.

I see quite a few on the road over here, they seem to be popular with the likes of the Water Board and Department of Environment etc.

EDManual · 04-06-2009, 11:16 AM

RTVs are everywhere in Vic, must have sold at least 100 to 200 a month, and have a real following, as well as resale holding up. Cant believe they dont still sell it.

vztrt · 04-06-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I see quite a few on the road over here, they seem to be popular with the likes of the Water Board and Department of Environment etc.

Thats were I saw the majority RTV's.

Rodp · 04-06-2009, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I see quite a few on the road over here, they seem to be popular with the likes of the Water Board and Department of Environment etc.

Must be a regional thing. I can honestly say I haven't seen one on the road this year and I spend a good 2+ on the road each day. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I saw one on the road.

Crazed · 04-06-2009, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Must be a regional thing. I can honestly say I haven't seen one on the road this year and I spend a good 2+ on the road each day. In fact, I can't even remember the last time I saw one on the road.

Yeah I remember an online article about the new FG ute which mentioned as an aside that they sold 5000 BA-BF RTVs over 4.5 years of it being listed on sale. I think that is pretty bloody good considering that initially you would hardly be selling any as supply gets ramped up, and you would be selling a lot less in the last few months as production is discontinued.

I wonder how easy would it be for Ford to do again. The locking diff already exists, so thats done. And the FG now has similar virtual pivot steering to the Territory, so extra ground clearance should be entirely possible. This time, add the Hill Descent Control from the Territory, after all its just a program in the ABS module.
After driving rubbish Rangers and Colorados, I know anyone would pick an RTV after a test drive if a locking diff was adequate for their needs. A new FG RTV would probably be one the best driving off- road work utes in the world.

Road_Warrior · 04-06-2009, 04:17 PM

Could it be that with the FG's new aluminium suspension parts (uprights etc) that it may not be as durable on rough and off-road applications?

phillyc · 04-06-2009, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazed

Yeah I remember an online article about the new FG ute which mentioned as an aside that they sold 5000 BA-BF RTVs over 4.5 years of it being listed on sale. I think that is pretty bloody good considering that initially you would hardly be selling any as supply gets ramped up, and you would be selling a lot less in the last few months as production is discontinued.

We have plenty of them at work, but are now getting to the age where they will be turned over. Saw 1 at work today and 1 out on the road as well. They are out there! That 4-5000 numbers seems about right. Considering they built those numbers up from scratch, ie new model line, they are good numbers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazed

I wonder how easy would it be for Ford to do again. The locking diff already exists, so thats done. And the FG now has similar virtual pivot steering to the Territory, so extra ground clearance should be entirely possible. This time, add the Hill Descent Control from the Territory, after all its just a program in the ABS module.

Yeah, Hill Descent would be a good addition.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazed

After driving rubbish Rangers and Colorados, I know anyone would pick an RTV after a test drive if a locking diff was adequate for their needs. A new FG RTV would probably be one the best driving off- road work utes in the world.

I agree, at work I have driven Hilux, Triton, Colarado/D-Max/Rodeo's, GMHolden Ute, Falcon Ute. The Falcon Ute is the best by far, followed by the Holden, then the others are waaaaay behind. The Hilux in particular is appalling in ride quality.

R-Design · 05-06-2009, 03:23 PM

Was trying to find some good points to Falcon's effort this month and determined that its market share in the segment was around 34%.

Make / Model May % Share
Ford Falcon 2846 33.93%
Holden Commodore 3683 43.91%
Honda Accord 505 6.02%
Nissan Maxima 10 0.12%
Toyota Aurion 1344 16.02%
8388

Then I read this:

"Ford's FG Falcon is trying hard but it has still failed to ignite interest.

Sales are down just 2 per cent compared to last year but its May tally of 2846 will not please executives at Ford's Broadmeadows HQ.

The company has sold just 11,080 Falcons this year."

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/ne...ales_dropping/

Surely Falcon's future is in doubt when they can only sell 27,000 odd units per annum.

phillyc · 05-06-2009, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Was trying to find some good points to Falcon's effort this month and determined that its market share in the segment was around 34%.

Make / Model May % Share
Ford Falcon 2846 33.93%
Holden Commodore 3683 43.91%
Honda Accord 505 6.02%
Nissan Maxima 10 0.12%
Toyota Aurion 1344 16.02%
8388

Burela said early this year, he wanted Falcon to have at least 35% market share. It's moving that way which is a good sign.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

Then I read this:

"Ford's FG Falcon is trying hard but it has still failed to ignite interest.

Sales are down just 2 per cent compared to last year but its May tally of 2846 will not please executives at Ford's Broadmeadows HQ.

The company has sold just 11,080 Falcons this year."

http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/ne...ales_dropping/

Surely Falcon's future is in doubt when they can only sell 27,000 odd units per annum.

Typical of the pricks at carsguide to end on a downer for Ford or Falcon. I've tried to submit the following comment, but it just wont let me...

Quote:

Typical of carsguide to end an article with a downer towards a Ford or the Falcon. Have they considered that basically fleets have by and large stopped buying cars? This therefore means that a higher proportion are retail (more profitable) sales as well as higher mix too?

Maybe you should've also said, the thirsty GMHolden C'dore is down 15% for the year. With exports drying up to the tune of 78% (GMH figure), then GMH must be really struggling...

Perhaps it might've been better to say Ford's market share is up over 1.2% to 11.2% and is increasing monthly. Maybe that Falcon Ute sales were up 14% to 1050, Fiesta sales are a record high.

No, it's probably easier just to be negative.

vztrt · 05-06-2009, 04:07 PM

Just to bring one thing up

Ford Oz Built Sales - 2846 +1050 +961 = 4857
Holden Oz Built Sales - 129 + 3683 + 54 + 1221 = 5087

So its not that far off.

R-Design · 05-06-2009, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vztrt

Just to bring one thing up

Ford Oz Built Sales - 2846 +1050 +961 = 4857
Holden Oz Built Sales - 129 + 3683 + 54 + 1221 = 5087

So its not that far off.

You've also got to factor in exports. Even though Holden's just lost the US market they've been exporting cars there for years. Besides equaling GMH doesn't necessarily mean being profitable, does it?

I can see why both Holden & Ford are pushing into the small car market. Even so, I think it's naive to think things will stay as they are come 2015 when Falcon is due to be replaced.

JPFS1 · 05-06-2009, 05:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

I wouldnt consider placing the ute on the T6 platform because the T6 is probably going to be body on frame and the Falcon is monocoque...

T6 will prove to be a VERY flexible architecture.. body on frame, correct. The possibilities are extensive.

vztrt · 05-06-2009, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boss315

You've also got to factor in exports. Even though Holden's just lost the US market they've been exporting cars there for years. Besides equaling GMH doesn't necessarily mean being profitable, does it?

The exports have died, the finally reduced production (but are still paying two shift...well 1.6). Then the reduced pricing on the car to move all the Holdens that were banked up at the auctions (Ford use to use this area during the AU saga), and finally the R&D costs that they have had to pay fro the VE SWB and LWB also the Hatch...I mean wagon. As for profit Holden hasn't made one since 04, this would include part sales.

Falc'man · 05-06-2009, 06:50 PM

Not enough people are considering the 3 Ford Eu imports... weak sales compared to inferior products.

4Vman · 05-06-2009, 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Not enough people are considering the 3 Ford Eu imports... weak sales compared to inferior products.

Yes.. the mondeo has been disappointing frankly..

imugli · 05-06-2009, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes.. the mondeo has been disappointing frankly..

Have to say I agree, but TBH I haven't seen a lot of marketing for it either. Is that just me?

It seems that Ford are very much still the Falcon Motor Company as far as marketing and perception are concerned. I can't understand why Focus and Mondeo get so little attention from them.

Close to best in class cars that seem to have never got the model / price / equipment equation quite where the market wants it...

Road_Warrior · 06-06-2009, 12:30 AM

Is supply an issue still with Mondeo? I haven't seen ads for them since they were released but I must say I see quite a few Mondeos on the road here. Not as many as the FG but still up there.

Watto_Cobra · 06-06-2009, 12:48 AM

Rodp · 06-06-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes.. the mondeo has been disappointing frankly..

Seemingly not for being a poor product though. I'm not a fan of the interior and for a moment ignoring that it's FWD, it's a cracker of a car.

It was on a short list for my last car (as well as the Focus) but Ford didn't offer anywhere near a reasonable trade for my XR8.

I don't know why sales aren't stellar on the vehicle but IMO, it's not the vehicle's fault.

ZA-289 · 06-06-2009, 09:14 AM

I think the modeo name is tarnished over here, just like the "taurus" the old models were ugly + expensive to repair.

**russellw** · 06-06-2009, 08:15 PM

The graphical results and analysis have now been uploaded - sorry for the delay but collating the data out of the raw numbers does take a considerable amount of time.

May 2009 Data

Supplementary Data

Cheers
Russ

vztrt · 08-06-2009, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

Seemingly not for being a poor product though. I'm not a fan of the interior and for a moment ignoring that it's FWD, it's a cracker of a car.

It was on a short list for my last car (as well as the Focus) but Ford didn't offer anywhere near a reasonable trade for my XR8.

I don't know why sales aren't stellar on the vehicle but IMO, it's not the vehicle's fault.

The car is great, but it goes up against the Mazda. The Mazda brand is stronger then the Ford badge.