GM caprice cop car is faster....because they ignored the ford PI LOL

[Brazen]

The beauty of this project is that there is no retail sales. Every Caprice PPV built will have an order attached to it, they wont have to worry about building cars to be sitting unsold in depots and car yards around the country. Kind of similar in a way when Ford AU used to send Fairlanes to the UK for the hearse market.

All they need to do is run a few Caprices down the line whenever they get an order, chuck them on the boat and done! The car is already US compliant, they already built it in LHD and they already have the transport networks set up from the Pontiac G8 and GTO exports. Its very very low risk for Holden and gives them extra volume and keeps the Australian Holdens in US management minds as they determine upcoming models and funding. I suspect Holdens strong relationship with the US head honchos is just as important as the vehicles themselves.

[Jesmol]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The beauty of this project is that there is no retail sales. Every Caprice PPV built will have an order attached to it, they wont have to worry about building cars to be sitting unsold in depots and car yards around the country. Kind of similar in a way when Ford AU used to send Fairlanes to the UK for the hearse market.

All they need to do is run a few Caprices down the line whenever they get an order, chuck them on the boat and done! The car is already US compliant, they already built it in LHD and they already have the transport networks set up from the Pontiac G8 and GTO exports. Its very very low risk for Holden and gives them extra volume and keeps the Australian Holdens in US management minds as they determine upcoming models and funding. I suspect Holdens strong relationship with the US head honchos is just as important as the vehicles themselves.

Interesting thoughts, but completely wrong. At the moment there is not one single order placed for the car, once its build and in production only then will orders start to flow. Its a build it and they will come philosophy.

As for it being a std Caprice, way off target there. Heres a list of some of the changes
1: Foot Brake for the pursuit vehicle
2: Rubber floor mats
3: Different seat structure
4: Different instrument cluster
5: Firewall changes
6: revised centre console

Plus there's also alot of dev work happening for the next model year.

Total development costs are in the vicinity of $10m to $20m before a car has been sold.

As for Cruze, doesn't start production until Feb and there's a lot of issues that need to be resolved before then. The second shift is building Commodores and lots of them to ensure stocks during Cruze ramp up.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by boris

Howz the strong aussie dollar going the effect the cost of the caprice in US?

Massively. It isn't just Commodore that is suffering. Cruze is in deep trouble.

[Joe5619]

What countries is Cuze down for except??

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

What countries is Cuze down for except??

Nothing to do with exporting them (I assume that's what you mean). It costs them less to import then from Korea than it does to make them locally.

When Holden jumped onto the Me Too bandwagon, the dollar wasn't at US$.80. It is now hovering close to parity. See the problem?

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by boris

Howz the strong aussie dollar going the effect the cost of the caprice in US?

I may be wrong however I don't think the price will be effected for the US buyers, it's more that Holden if say selling today at $US35,000, will now get the equivalent $A35,000, while the US/Aust dollar is even, wheres at the start of the project might have got $A40,000 when the US dollar was stronger (my numbers are purely used as an example of currency fluctuation). If Holden needs to lift prices to make the same profit, or any profit then they could outprice themselves to the competeing vehicles.

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Nothing to do with exporting them (I assume that's what you mean). It costs them less to import then from Korea than it does to make them locally.

When Holden jumped onto the Me Too bandwagon, the dollar wasn't at US$.80. It is now hovering close to parity. See the problem?

And from what i understand, when the cruze is manufactured in OZ, it will still be approx 70% imported, due to the fact that its basically a CKD kit. The 30% accounts for the body being made here, as well as some assembly work (on imported parts). So all they are doing is adding in extra labour (boxing and then unboxing) at a higher price than what they originally bargained for.

I think one of the best comparisons one can make with the cruze, is the Mitsubishi lancer. A little while ago, both cars were selling for same price $22990 on road. The lancer has since gone down to $21990, plus $500 cash back. Not to mention the better warranty etc (and also its a better car). The cruze started of selling OK (2500 per month), but is now starting to drift back to the 2000's. looking at some of the sales stats from this forum, the astra was hitting sales of 3000 per month back in around 2005. If it didnt make sense for Holden to be making 3000 astras a month, when the aussie dollar was 60 cents to the US and tarriffs were at 15%, then something in me say they are gonna take a bloodbath with 2000 cruzes a month, tarrifs at 0 or 5%, and the aussie dollar at parity.

Might be a good time for Ford to put some pressure on the with Falcon pricing. If they can get Holden to go belly up, they can pick up an extra 2000 Falcon buyers per month.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

And from what i understand, when the cruze is manufactured in OZ, it will still be approx 70% imported, due to the fact that its basically a CKD kit. The 30% accounts for the body being made here, as well as some assembly work (on imported parts). So all they are doing is adding in extra labour (boxing and then unboxing) at a higher price than what they originally bargained for.

I think one of the best comparisons one can make with the cruze, is the Mitsubishi lancer. A little while ago, both cars were selling for same price $22990 on road. The lancer has since gone down to $21990, plus $500 cash back.

The better question is how does Mitsubishi make money? The Japanese workforce is the highest paid in the world, the cars are built on some of the most expensive land in the world and the cars are shipped halfway across the world at a time when shipping by boat is as expensive as its ever been.

The trick for Mitsubishi ?? its volume and its the same for Cruze, this is about pumping an extra 50,000 cars a year through elizabeth by 2012 with cheap Aussie labour (compared to Korean and Japanese labour) on cheap Aussie land, and shipping cheaply on the back of trucks. It dosnt hurt its a market which is dominated by profitable private buyers who are downsizing but are buying more well-equipped smaller cars.... it also plugs Holden in (pardon the pun) into future electric vehicles developed on the delta platform.


oh yeah and lets not forget the $150 million Holden was given by the government to do it.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The better question is how does Mitsubishi make money? The Japanese workforce is the highest paid in the world, the cars are built on some of the most expensive land in the world and the cars are shipped halfway across the world at a time when shipping by boat is as expensive as its ever been.

Yes. The first year after they killed Tonsley Park, MMAL went from making huge losses to a Million dollar profit, even after paying out entitlements and leaving taxes.

Holwoo last made a profit when?

[bobthebilda]

Originally Posted by Brazen

The better question is how does Mitsubishi make money? The Japanese workforce is the highest paid in the world, the cars are built on some of the most expensive land in the world and the cars are shipped halfway across the world at a time when shipping by boat is as expensive as its ever been.

The trick for Mitsubishi ?? its volume and its the same for Cruze, this is about pumping an extra 50,000 cars a year through elizabeth by 2012 with cheap Aussie labour (compared to Korean and Japanese labour) on cheap Aussie land, and shipping cheaply on the back of trucks. It dosnt hurt its a market which is dominated by profitable private buyers who are downsizing but are buying more well-equipped smaller cars.... it also plugs Holden in (pardon the pun) into future electric vehicles developed on the delta platform.
oh yeah and lets not forget the $150 million Holden was given by the government to do it.

Quite simple really. When the japanese make cars, they set up to pump them out at 300,000 to 400,000 per plant. If you spend $300 million to make 1.2 million cars over a 3 year period, you have to recoup $300 a car to pay for it. If you spend $300 million to make 70,000 cars over a 3 year period, you have to recoup nearly $5000 per car to pay for it. Also a plant manager on $150,000 who overseas 400,000 cars a year, is adding 40 cents onto that car. A plant manager on $150,000 who overseas 25,000 cars a year, is adding $6 onto that car. And so on, and so on.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Only GM could produce the Holden blimp which got free publicity at sports events when other companies had to pay for the privelage to appear on TV. That was very underhanded and laws had to be written to prevent repeat offences.

I work occasionally at the Flemington Race Course, a few years ago the owners and management where chucking a tantrum because on cup week the Holden blimp was hovering above us getting free advertising, VRC didn't seem to understand that they don't own the airspace above the race course, rofl.

Originally Posted by geckoGT

As has been said, it is a pain for the cops having a console mount shifter as it takes space that can be used for all the other gear and electronics. We had the same sort of thing with the first Mercedes Sprinter that had a floor mount t bar shifter, prevented the fitment of a console for all the other crap we carry. The later Merc's had a dash mount shifter which was much better for equipment storage.

Interesting you mention this as all our Ambulances we build for Ambulance Victoria are all Sprinters with T-bar, but its not floor mounted.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Interesting you mention this as all our Ambulances we build for Ambulance Victoria are all Sprinters with T-bar, but its not floor mounted.

That is what I said, the dash mount allows the installation of a console for equipment storage, the floor mount does not. Sprinters have not had a floor mount for about 8 years.

I can see the cops would have exactly the same issue, the difference is US cops get purpose built vehicles, aussie cops get whatever is on the go on the local market. Specialisation is about as extensive as putting in a radio and bolting on some lights.

[Struggo]

Originally Posted by bobthebilda

Might be a good time for Ford to put some pressure on the with Falcon pricing. If they can get Holden to go belly up, they can pick up an extra 2000 Falcon buyers per month.

There is no benefit to the Australian Manufacturing Industry if Holden were to go belly up.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Struggo

There is no benefit to the Australian Manufacturing Industry if Holden were to go belly up.

Exactly, there's no future in the two companies trying to compete directly for the same blade of grass,
it's better that they have kinda similar products that appeal to different buyer demographics.

What Ford have to do is start selling cars that attract more buyers from outside the large car sector.
This is where the new LILPG and Ecoboost engines come into play, heck let's try a diesel too.
The 2.2 I-4 diesel from Ranger/Mondeo is also available and may give a really low litre/100km
figure strong enough to lure in fleets and people looking for a really economical big sedan...

[ltd]

Originally Posted by boris

Howz the strong aussie dollar going the effect the cost of the caprice in US?

Quite badly. Let's say the caprice was sold wholesaled to GM for AUD$45000.00.

Before the high dollar, it was US$37000.00, after it is US$44500.00.
This $7.5K increase is only going to make it much more unattractive and less viable.

[Jesmol]

Originally Posted by ltd

Quite badly. Let's say the caprice was sold wholesaled to GM for AUD$45000.00.

Before the high dollar, it was US$37000.00, after it is US$44500.00.
This $7.5K increase is only going to make it much more unattractive and less viable.

Doesn't work like that, GM will be buying the car in USD , so their price is fixed. Holden will recieve less AUD in return.

[boris]

Originally Posted by Jesmol

Doesn't work like that, GM will be buying the car in USD , so their price is fixed. Holden will recieve less AUD in return.

So how will this effect the profitabilty of the project for holden?

Will it be worth it or are GM better of building the cars in the states, or elsewhere?

[ltd]

Originally Posted by Jesmol

Doesn't work like that, GM will be buying the car in USD , so their price is fixed. Holden will recieve less AUD in return.

Are you sure about that? There'll be variances in the contract to allow for price hikes on materials etc, but as it hasn't commenced yet and nothing has been signed off there is no way that Holden will start selling cars in large volumes at a loss. Whilst this is being negotiated they would be stark raving mad not to give GM the newer price commensurate with the exchange rate.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by ltd

Are you sure about that? There'll be variances in the contract to allow for price hikes on materials etc, but as it hasn't commenced yet and nothing has been signed off there is no way that Holden will start selling cars in large volumes at a loss. Whilst this is being negotiated they would be stark raving mad not to give GM the newer price commensurate with the exchange rate.

Holden would of bought put and call options or forward contracts to hedge against currency fluctuations, we used to do it all the time in rolling stock manufacturing.

There is no way a company with such wafer thin profit margins would leave themselves to the mercy of currency risk. However this hedging runs out sooner or later, you just have to hope the currency has come back down by then or you are able to re-hedge at a point when the currency has devalued.

[Jesmol]

Originally Posted by ltd

Are you sure about that? There'll be variances in the contract to allow for price hikes on materials etc, but as it hasn't commenced yet and nothing has been signed off there is no way that Holden will start selling cars in large volumes at a loss. Whilst this is being negotiated they would be stark raving mad not to give GM the newer price commensurate with the exchange rate.

Couple of points.

Most of the parts in the car are fixed price , so material changes aren't paid through to the vendor anyway .

All of the OS parts are bought in USD (even China & Thailand contracts are all USD) , so right now they are reaping massive rewards for bought in items.

ALL of Holden steel is sourced from Korea in USD.

There's a massive proportion of the VE cost which is in USD , so the increase in the USD : AUD rate loss on the CCPPV car is offset against the savings across the board on every VE for the bought in materials, this amount would more than offset the reduction in revenue due to the volume disparities.

[burnz]

Originally Posted by Jesmol

Couple of points.

Most of the parts in the car are fixed price , so material changes aren't paid through to the vendor anyway .

All of the OS parts are bought in USD (even China & Thailand contracts are all USD) , so right now they are reaping massive rewards for bought in items.

ALL of Holden steel is sourced from Korea in USD.

There's a massive proportion of the VE cost which is in USD , so the increase in the USD : AUD rate loss on the CCPPV car is offset against the savings across the board on every VE for the bought in materials, this amount would more than offset the reduction in revenue due to the volume disparities.

the LS crate motor were sorced a year ago and paid at those prices.
alloy component are BHP ingots, malaysia.
steel component are One Steel 50mtr rolls, newcastle NSW.

[Jesmol]

Originally Posted by burnz

steel component are One Steel 50mtr rolls, newcastle NSW.

No they're not, trust me.

The supply base pre-dominately uses Bluescope steel , but the pricing is fixed based on previous rates and Holden dont accept material variances for steel.

Holden's themselves by most of their steel from Posco which is Korean.

[Carby]

Wow - the smaller AWD PI is faster than the big Caprice by half a second a lap - who would have guessed that?

Wonder how the AWD goes for fuel economy, the way cops drive..............

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Carby

Wow - the smaller AWD PI is faster than the big Caprice by half a second a lap - who would have guessed that?

Wonder how the AWD goes for fuel economy, the way cops drive..............

At 70c a litre they couldn't care less.