aca exposition of speed cameras exposed

[eaglem]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

there is nothing to wonder about - they are handed out much too easily
but it would be considered discrimination or some other horrible crime if new drivers were supposed to learn the local way
some new drivers can be a fully licensed driver after around 20-50 hours of experience - but aca nor the government will do anything to change that . . . not enough ratings or money involved I guess

Maybe we should create new Bumper Stickers "Political Correctness Kills!" to bring it to their attention.

[joolz]

Originally Posted by prydey

oh come now, no room for that sort of logic.

if the cameras aren't working, it just means there isn't enough of them.

Or just reduce the speed limit further...

[CFOUR]

The QLD chief of police outrightly said they where revenue raising tools.

[monzie]

One thing that never gets mentioned in the "speed cameras save lifes" debate is the huge strides made in vehicle design and occupent safety. I think the introduction of safety cells, multi air bag systems, braking, etc, etc would have had more effect on lowering the road toll than cameras. Driver attitude and behavior is a bigger problem to road safety.

cheers Pete

[prydey]

what if they just come out and rename them all REVENUE CAMERAS!!! afterall, most peoples biggest gripe with them is that they don't actually save lives or make anything safer so labelling them safety cameras and saying they save lives is totally false. if they just got rid of all the pretense, and called them what everyone knows they are, they could still have them and use them whereever and not have to come up with stupid statistics to justify them.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by eaglem

If Speed Cameras did their jobs in making roads safer why has the Road Toll risen since their advent? .

Originally Posted by graham7773

eaglem, just a point I have to make. In the last 10 years, Australia has taken in 4.5 million new migrants. Could this 20% increase in the population have had anything to do with the rising road toll? Which has risen how much in the same period?.

you might want to check the stats on that, road tolls have dropped.

Originally Posted by Ben73

If Cameras really did change driver behavior, wouldn't the amount of income from cameras drop each year and no one would be fined more then once?

Yes, it does drop Ben, check the nsw auditors reports, the numbers drop significantly over the 1st year of fixed camera installations, the effectiveness of this being why more of them get introduced at new locations, so yes more fines, but more locations.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by sudszy

you might want to check the stats on that, road tolls have dropped.

And speed camera made that happen yeah? I doubt it. Safer cars have ALOT to do with it.

[Ford_The_Win]

Originally Posted by sudszy

you might want to check the stats on that, road tolls have dropped.

That discounts the huge advancements that have been made in automotive safety in the last decade. And the decreasing social acceptability of drink driving which is a far nastier and more destructive problem than going 5 km/hr over the speed limit.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by DJM83

And speed camera made that happen yeah? I doubt it. Safer cars have ALOT to do with it.

nope didnt say that, just pointing out the factual error in the post, but if you have factual evidence its just safer cars then please provide.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by sudszy

nope didnt say that, just pointing out the factual error in the post, but if you have factual evidence its just safer cars then please provide.

Nope i dont but safer cars have helped improve the road toll, if you dont believe they have your kidding yourself.

[geckoGT]

Originally Posted by sudszy

nope didnt say that, just pointing out the factual error in the post, but if you have factual evidence its just safer cars then please provide.

Or you could provide factual evidence the drop in road toll is due to speed cameras and not improved road quality and safer cars.

Good luck with that.

[MITCHAY]

Originally Posted by DJM83

And speed camera made that happen yeah? I doubt it. Safer cars have ALOT to do with it.

Possibly because a lot of major roads anywhere in the country are a parking lot in peak hour You can't crash if you're not moving. Funny that there is a speed camera right in the middle of said parking lot on my main drive :

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by prydey

what if they just come out and rename them all REVENUE CAMERAS!!! afterall, most peoples biggest gripe with them is that they don't actually save lives or make anything safer so labelling them safety cameras and saying they save lives is totally false. if they just got rid of all the pretense, and called them what everyone knows they are, they could still have them and use them whereever and not have to come up with stupid statistics to justify them.

Agree 100%.

Cameras are only good for two things.

1) Make money for govco (ie rob innocent people).
2) Make people nervous when driving, and this can be potentially dangerous. The proof to that is how often do you see people driving along normally at the speed limit but when they approach a camera they automatically wipe 15km/h off? Worse still, I've seen some people slam on their brakes as they've only just realised they're going passed a certified government money collector.

If people want to speed they will speed where there aren't cameras. And some people do that. No one here of course because we're all innocent fluffy creatures.

Replacing cameras with more highway patrol presence costs the government money.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by geckoGT

Or you could provide factual evidence the drop in road toll is due to speed cameras and not improved road quality and safer cars.

Good luck with that.

im not the one making unsubstantiated claims, if someone has evidence that the difference is only due to safer cars then lets see it.

but something to mull over:
check table 6, deaths per million kms :http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...pdf/rsr_04.pdf

then look at which states the tolls came down faster and to lower levels and entertain a few possibilities as to why

[nuthin' fancy]

If it is on ACA, you can be sure facts have nothing to do with it.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by DJM83

Nope i dont but safer cars have helped improve the road toll, if you dont believe they have your kidding yourself.

sorry, did i say safer cars havent helped?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by sudszy

im not the one making unsubstantiated claims, if someone has evidence that the difference is only due to safer cars then lets see it.

but something to mull over:
check table 6, deaths per million kms :http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roa...pdf/rsr_04.pdf

then look at which states the tolls came down faster and to lower levels and entertain a few possibilities as to why

So you beleive every survey, every article, published is true because that's all you do post post links to them.
Well you better wait for the next episode of ACA then to see if safer cars help the road toll. I never said safer cars were the sole reason for the reduction in road toll. Now get off your high horse and go and push your anti everything
motoring somewhere else because I amongst many are getting sick of your rubbish, you contribute nothing positive to this forum only info the is to the detriment of anything that this site is for

[BAXR8_Ute]

I think what people mean to say is 'speed cameras reduce the road toll where there is a speed camera'. Out this way, in the last 6 months, there has been 4 crashes in the same spot on the highway only 15km from town. The highway is 110kph, dead straight, with no speed camera, only the occasional highway patrol car. 3 of the crashes were fatals after the cars went off the road into a tree. The 4th somehow escaped injury after his 4x4 left the road and flipped. All were fatigue related and not associated with speed. The way the government spins it, seems to say all fatalities are speed related.. Until they talk about drink driving, then all fatalities are related to that. I don't think I've ever seen a breakdown of the road toll and what each crash was attributed to.

[Ben73]

You always see ads and hear experts talking about how speed is terrible.

Sometimes you see ads and hear experts talk about how drink driving is terrible.

Once every blue moon you see ads and hear experts talk about dangers of fatigue.

You very very rarely to never hear anything about the dangers of tailgating, not indicating, ignoring blind spots, not looking when approaching a crossing, running red lights, driving a car with bald tyres, driving a car with unsafe brakes, not scanning your mirrors, failing to keep left unless overtaking, unnecessarily slowing down and giving way, not stopping in traffic lanes, driving one handed, having demisters that don't work proplerly, illegal right turns, illegal left turns, giving no indication at rondabouts, not looking when pulling onto a road, sticking your nose out in the lane of traffic while waiting to pull out, racing to the end of a merge lane to cut someone off, not letting a car merge at a merge lane, should I continue?
I guess none of those things have ever caused an accident? Or we just don't hear much about it because it is harder to make money off people breaking those rules.
It just happens that the easiest rule to enforce/make money off (speeding) is the only thing we ever hear about.

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by DJM83

So you beleive every survey, every article, published is true because that's all you do post post links to them.
Well you better wait for the next episode of ACA then to see if safer cars help the road toll. I never said safer cars were the sole reason for the reduction in road toll. Now get off your high horse and go and push your anti everything
motoring somewhere else because I amongst many are getting sick of your rubbish, you contribute nothing positive to this forum only info the is to the detriment of anything that this site is for

Push my rubbish? first of all we have people posting here that the road toll is rising, I kindly point out that isnt the case, then got told its got nothing to do with cameras(which I didnt bring up). I ask for some supporting evidence and get told by a mod I should provide evidence cameras do help. I kindly dug up some stats to consider,but they count for nought in your book as they are cooked up by government conspirators.

I think people here are also forgetting the auditor general's report on NSW cameras, which was widely celebrated on this forum, as it pointed out 38 cameras weren't reducing the accident rate at their location:http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...9&postcount=60, 9another thread where you seem to be hell bent on shooting the messenger/threaten suspension/banning them when facts are put out there that dont suit you)

The one fact that doesnt suit a lot of people here is that the majority of the cameras were successful in reducing crashes:

http://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/publicat...ed_cameras.pdf

page 20

"Our road safety consultant reviewed RTA’s analysis and found the overall reductions in crashes, fatalities and injuries were statistically significant. This means there was a real reduction in road safety risk as a result of fixed cameras overall.
Although the total number of crashes reduced, the results varied for individual camera locations with crashes, injuries or fatalities increasing at some while decreasing at others. Of 141 fixed speed camera locations, RTA assessed 93 as effective with a clear road safety benefit. Section 3.3 outlines RTA’s definition of an effective camera. Another ten cameras were recently installed or road conditions had changed so it was too soon for RTA to determine their impact."

We have people on this forum stating that speed cameras dont do anything for road safety, if it were the case that there was no evidence to support either way, then one could say they are entitled to their opinion and that it could have some validity. However, the facts say otherwise, to continue to utter opinion contrary to the facts without any form of alternative evidence is without logic.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by sudszy

Push my rubbish? first of all we have people posting here that the road toll is rising, I kindly point out that isnt the case, then got told its got nothing to do with cameras(which I didnt bring up). I ask for some supporting evidence and get told by a mod I should provide evidence cameras do help. I kindly dug up some stats to consider,but they count for nought in your book as they are cooked up by government conspirators.

I think people here are also forgetting the auditor general's report on NSW cameras, which was widely celebrated on this forum, as it pointed out 38 cameras weren't reducing the accident rate at their location:http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...9&postcount=60, 9another thread where you seem to be hell bent on shooting the messenger when facts are put out there that dont suit you)

The one fact that doesnt suit a lot of people here is that the majority of the cameras were successful in reducing crashes:

http://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/publicat...ed_cameras.pdf

page 20

"Our road safety consultant reviewed RTA’s analysis and found the overall reductions in crashes, fatalities and injuries were statistically significant. This means there was a real reduction in road safety risk as a result of fixed cameras overall.
Although the total number of crashes reduced, the results varied for individual camera locations with crashes, injuries or fatalities increasing at some while decreasing at others. Of 141 fixed speed camera locations, RTA assessed 93 as effective with a clear road safety benefit. Section 3.3 outlines RTA’s definition of an effective camera. Another ten cameras were recently installed or road conditions had changed so it was too soon for RTA to determine their impact."

I dont care about your facts, or surveys or websites. It doesnt interest me one bit.
They could feed people like you any info they wanted and you would believe them.
How does a speed camera reduce the road toll, this is one fact i cannot understand? What do they change a drivers mentality behind the wheel?
From my point of view Police having a visible presence is a bigger deterant.
Only thing i see them doing is raising money, yes ive been caught.
Safer cars would also lower the road toll, but as if a survey, poll, questionnaire or what ever it may be will be done because there is no 'benefit' to govco from it.

[Falc'man]

Originally Posted by sudszy

We have people on this forum stating that speed cameras dont do anything for road safety, if it were the case that there was no evidence to support either way, then one could say they are entitled to their opinion and that it could have some validity. However, the facts say otherwise, to continue to utter opinion contrary to the facts without any form of alternative evidence is without logic.

Evidence?? You've given us a link to a) a government written article, and b) it's the RTA !!!
If you expect people to accept that as evidence then sorry but you're kidding yourself.

There is a difference between what the rta SAY and what they DO and considering the amount of people they've robbed how do you expect anyone to believe a word they say?

[sudszy]

Originally Posted by Falc'man

Evidence?? You've given us a link to a) a government written article, and b) it's the RTA !!!
If you expect people to accept that as evidence then sorry but you're kidding yourself.

There is a difference between what the rta SAY and what they DO and considering the amount of people they've robbed how do you expect anyone to believe a word they say?

NO, I havent given you any link to any RTA literature, I gave you a link to the auditor general's report which was there to review the whole speed camera issue in NSW, yes and one of their tasks was to REVIEW the findings of the RTA. Yes they have quoted/audited/verfied some RTA findings, perhaps that is your point of confusion.

Of course if you think they have overlooked falsifications provided by the RTA, you are welcome to point out exactly where they are, but given you have not provided any evidence of this fraud, Ill go with with what the auditor general concluded rather than unfounded, fanciful conspiracy theories between the auditor general and the RTA.

Originally Posted by DJM83

How does a speed camera reduce the road toll, this is one fact i cannot understand? .

If you read the whole of the auditor general's report then that would help, but it seems you aren't interested

Originally Posted by DJM83

I dont care about your facts, or surveys or websites. It doesnt interest me one bit.

[FPT]

'SAFETY' cameras

Edit. But you claimed that as evidence earlier sudzy so stop twisting things around to suit your argument.

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by sudszy

NO, I gave you a link to the auditor general's report which was there to review the whole speed camera issue in NSW, yes and one of their tasks was to REVIEW the findings of the RTA.

Of course if you think they have overlooked falsifications provided by the RTA, you are welcome to point out exactly where they are, but given you have not provided any evidence of this fraud, Ill go with with what the auditor general concluded rather than unfounded, fanciful conspiracy theories between the auditor general and the RTA.



If you read the whole of the auditor general's report then that would help, but it seems you aren't interested

No im not interested at all, along with a lot of other people so stop preaching. Speed cameras are of no interest to me.
Go and post your govco claims elsewhere.
All your interested in is creating arguments.

[Bent8]

I'd just like to say that speed cameras have reduced one thing...and that's the average speed of 98% of motorists on the roads I travel on.

Seems people have given up on keeping left in their efforts to drive 10kph under the speed limit in the right lane.

Have also noticed an increase in big white vans with laser-activated cameras parked on the side of the road.....AT NIGHT !!...maybe the police that operate these vehicles should read an army manual on the benefits of camouflage.

Makes me wonder why they even bother to set these things up when most people are driving below the speed limit...

Oh wait, the Govt's (like the people) are strapped for cash at the moment

[FPV+fteT3]

sudszy

I think people here are also forgetting the auditor general's report on NSW cameras,

"Our road safety consultant reviewed our RTA’s analysis and found the overall reductions in crashes, fatalities and injuries were statistically significant. This means there was a real reduction in road safety risk as a result of fixed cameras overall.

You do of course realise sudszy that gov co pay for the reports and outline what results and outcomes they are looking for before commissioning any report? The auditor general works for the people commissioning the report that is govco. Having said that and made that crystal clear how long would your job last if you did not do as you were asked in any form of employment?

Preface of consultant and auditors report "We want the findings to indicate we are right and cameras work you guys got it... good then blokes like sudszy will carry our crap to the masses, sign the confidentiality agreement before you leave and we look forward to reading a positive report in 6 months and $2million in tax payers money time."

Bit skeptical yes but indicative of how this system of govt. control works, no independant study has taken place so nothing will change its all about controlling what information gets out you really think any govt. are ever going to release a report that proves they are wrong?

[sudszy]

sudszy:


Quote:

I think people here are also forgetting the auditor general's report on NSW cameras,

"Our road safety consultant reviewed our RTA’s analysis and found the overall reductions in crashes, fatalities and injuries were statistically significant. This means there was a real reduction in road safety risk as a result of fixed cameras overall.


That takes the cake, quoting me and then changing what's in the quote, how disingenuous.

Originally Posted by FPV+fteT3

sudszy
You do of course realise sudszy that gov co pay for the reports and outline what results and outcomes they are looking for before commissioning any report? The auditor general works for the people commissioning the report that is govco......?

Its amazing that people on this forum were rejoicing in the fact that the auditor general's dept identified 38 speed cameras as ineffective, but then want to tell us they must be making it up about the other ones.

Suggest you read up on the role of the auditor general's dept: http://www.audit.nsw.gov.au/info/about_us/role.htm#role.

Also appreciate the audit was an election promise from the incoming liberal government who seemed hell bent on getting votes promising to clean the roads of speed cameras.

[flappist]

This has degenerated in yet another slanging fest.

Game over.