GM Sticks with Pushrods - Page 2

mik · 25-10-2012, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoo

Your logic is flawed and something a limp wristed Golf driver would come up with. Ford were one of the last to drop pushrods, well behind the euros and japs. I'm just trying to think how more technology made the 5.4 Ford the better engine 10 years ago... Heavy cast iron block, more valves to burn which it loved doing, expensive timing chain rattles with weak tensioners, and an engine that was so physically big it struggled to fit in one of the largest cars on the market. To top it off it couldn't even match the LS1 for performance. As for tractor engines you'll probably find the 4.0 (as much as i love it) is closer to one than this new small block Chev. Looks like the legend will live to 60.

the 5.4 cast iron block engine was actually a truck engine, the last version did the qaurter in 13.6 seconds and it`s smaller swept volume than the pushrod holden engine of which had it`s own set of problems, so perhaps we won`t bag the 5.4 too much.

**DJM83** · 25-10-2012, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pottery beige

some just don't get it.. engine is just an air pump.. doesnt matter how it does it as long as it does it well....

Agreed 100% so what if it's so called old tech. If it makes power and does it well WGAF.

99AUXR · 25-10-2012, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sprint

I dont think anyone is bashing good ole pushrods but you are living in the past if you think there is no advantage to OHC or DOHC.

Direct cam action onto the valves with no pushrod tollerances to get into the way.

time to move on from the 70 year old chev design i think, stop living in the aussie 80,s lol

They also have disadvantages.

jpd80 · 25-10-2012, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

Agreed 100% so what if it's so called old tech. If it makes power and does it well WGAF.

And then you add direct Injection, Variable Valve timing and pretty soon, you have a compact V8
that can run with most of the competition...

What GM should be doing is improving their base truck engines with this tech, not just high series Corvette,

smoo · 25-10-2012, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

you are partly right but the greater the efficency of air exchange the better off you are. with OHC you get multi valve technology which improves efficency. it's like putting in bigger valves but better . you also have greater losses in transfering the action of the camshaft through push rods more friction therfore more heat. failure of push rods at high engine speed is another issue as is increased risk of valve bounce.
the list goes on but you get the idea, push rods belong in tractors not performance cars

Great in theory, high end competition, motorcycling, except it means little in the real world of passenger cars. The small block Chev is proof. 2 meters worth of timing chain, tensioners, guides, 3 extra cam shafts with bearings are going to rob more power than 8 pushrods not to mention headaches come R&M time. As I said earlier all engines mentioned in this thread wouldn't be 40% thermal efficient which goes to show they are all boat anchors in the grand scheme of things no matter where the cam shaft sits.

Terror_Tree · 25-10-2012, 11:55 AM

What do all the ture high performance engines, car and bikes, use? OHC or DOHC. Maybe pushrod engines are cheaper to make.

mik · 25-10-2012, 12:33 PM

pushrod engines are cheap to make no doubt about it.

FGII-XR6 · 25-10-2012, 12:36 PM

no point arguing with someone obviously still living in the 20th century, we need to move with the times

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoo

Great in theory, high end competition, motorcycling, except it means sweet (removed as I observe the site T&C) all in the real world of passenger cars. The small block Chev is proof. 2 meters worth of timing chain, tensioners, guides, 3 extra cam shafts with bearings are going to rob more power than 8 pushrods not to mention headaches come R&M time. As I said earlier all engines mentioned in this thread wouldn't be 40% thermal efficient which goes to show they are all boat anchors in the grand scheme of things no matter where the cam shaft sits.

phillyc · 25-10-2012, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

450 hp and 450 lb ft is a very formidable and cost effective unit for HSV,

will this be their top engine for GTS or basic for Clubsport?

Fitted to the Corvette 'later next year'. So, can't imagine the engine going into an HSV before that.

So Miami engined FPV's will continue to punish the HSV's in performance for at least another year!

FGII-XR6 · 25-10-2012, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

So Miami engined FPV's will continue to punish the HSV's in performance for at least another year!

And beyond, it is well known they are detuned and capable of 400+ Kw with nothing more than a tune

FPV GTHO · 25-10-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smoo

2 meters worth of timing chain, tensioners, guides, 3 extra cam shafts with bearings are going to rob more power than 8 pushrods not to mention headaches come R&M time. As I said earlier all engines mentioned in this thread wouldn't be 40% thermal efficient which goes to show they are all boat anchors in the grand scheme of things no matter where the cam shaft sits.

Just asking, so why do GM still rely on a higher capacity motor to Fords modular based DOHC V8's to make similar power?

pottery beige · 25-10-2012, 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

no point arguing with someone obviously still living in the 20th century, we need to move with the times

much more to do with int, exh, port and combustion chamber design than how those valves are actuated...

air pump..

CSV_LS1 · 25-10-2012, 02:42 PM

Very nice. Comes with dry sump as well.
This will be a nice package when fitted to the commodore.

jpd80 · 25-10-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Just asking, so why do GM still rely on a higher capacity motor to Fords modular based DOHC V8's to make similar power?

Engine design philosophy.
GM still sticks to higher capacity pushrod with Active Fuel management (Cylinder deactivation)
where Ford uses a more efficient right sized 5.0 with DOHC and VCT to get the job done.

T3ts50 · 25-10-2012, 03:56 PM

I don't hear any of the push rod haters here bagging out Bentley for still usinng pushrod V8's in some of their cars.

noosacuda · 25-10-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

.............push rods belong in tractors not performance cars

Maybe so, but i'd have my 500 cubic inch "tractor engine" any day over high-tech, high maintainence over-head cam V8.
If it ain't broke,don't fix it!

**Dave R** · 25-10-2012, 04:31 PM

Deep down, the anti-pushrod crowd are actually overwhelmed with delight that GM are still using pushrods. Imagine if they actually went DOHC, oh the horror, the one-eyed Ford supporters would no longer have their senseless "pushrods are old technology, LS motors suck" argument to lean on. They might actually have to accept that GM makes a very good V8. Well played GM, everyone is happy.

Nikked · 25-10-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

push rods belong in tractors not performance cars

Didn't some "tractor engined" Falcon stick it up to the rest of the world back in '71?

You what the real funny thing is.

OHC outdate's Pushrods....

So, tell me again whats modern technology...

Camless...

davez104 · 25-10-2012, 05:05 PM

Newer technology is only a benefit if it does its intended job better or more efficiently than the older tech. Holden can meet it's needs, and match Fords offerings, with the older tech so where's the problem?

**ebxr8240** · 25-10-2012, 05:17 PM

Come on the badge makes 70% difference ..

MITCHAY · 25-10-2012, 05:27 PM

People who like performance cars don't care so long as it performs.

Uncle Tone · 25-10-2012, 05:31 PM

Meh.

Only ten and a bit kilowatts more than what HSV already have.

Whoopee poopee.

Motorbreath310 · 25-10-2012, 06:38 PM

Why all the hate? The reason LS engines are so popular is they are compact, cheap(ish) light and easy to maintain. What's not to love about something so simple yet so effective? I applaud GM for still pouring development dollars into such designs. The results speak for themselves. It also adds a point of difference in an ever-increasingly generic automotive spectrum.

Say what you like but there's just something decidedly "old-school cool" about a pushrod v8. And they fit into almost ANYTHING! In the real world, they aren't THAT much slower either in standard form at least.

Don't hate, Appreciate! How boring would it be if both camps ran a near-identical motor? We'd be arguing instead over who has the superior V angle or port design.

FGII-XR6 · 25-10-2012, 07:45 PM

40 years ago!!! Ford have moved on

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

Didn't some "tractor engined" Falcon stick it up to the rest of the world back in '71?

You what the real funny thing is.

OHC outdate's Pushrods....

So, tell me again whats modern technology...

Camless...

FGII-XR6 · 25-10-2012, 07:51 PM

pardon us for be pro ford on a FORD forum how silly of us we should all be finding ways to drag ford down and praise holden
I can't for the life of me understand why we have people on here singing the praises of everything holden and being critical of the make we are supposed to support here
maybe some of you are on the wrong site???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adrenaline

Deep down, the anti-pushrod crowd are actually overwhelmed with delight that GM are still using pushrods. Imagine if they actually went DOHC, oh the horror, the one-eyed Ford supporters would no longer have their senseless "pushrods are old technology, LS motors suck" argument to lean on. They might actually have to accept that GM makes a very good V8. Well played GM, everyone is happy.

Nikked · 25-10-2012, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

40 years ago!!! Ford have moved on

The GM engine uses OHV technology, newer then OHC.

What's outdated now?

Both are old, your flawed logic is flawed.

Angeldust · 25-10-2012, 07:52 PM

the simplicity in tunability of pushrod engines is what makes the so great as well. Think how simple a cam swap is, or even to bolt on a blower etc is.

Struggo · 25-10-2012, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

pardon us for be pro ford on a FORD forum how silly of us we should all be finding ways to drag ford down and praise holden
I can't for the life of me understand why we have people on here singing the praises of everything holden and being critical of the make we are supposed to support here
maybe some of you are on the wrong site???

Because its not about Ford v Holden anymore, its about "US v Them"

MethodX · 25-10-2012, 08:21 PM

Enjoy both while we still can..
What the Corvette Z06 does, with pushrods.. freaks the Euro's out.
So good on them.

99AUXR · 25-10-2012, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by au3xr6

pardon us for be pro ford on a FORD forum how silly of us we should all be finding ways to drag ford down and praise holden
I can't for the life of me understand why we have people on here singing the praises of everything holden and being critical of the make we are supposed to support here
maybe some of you are on the wrong site???

We arent dragging ford down and praising holden. We were simply talking about two different ways to make power. This isnt about ford or holden or GM. I would still be saying the exact same thing if ford produced a DOHC V8 and a pushrod. And to be fair if the DOHC was naturally aspirated and they both had same power. I would probably take the pushrod.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MethodX

What the Corvette Z06 does, with pushrods.. freaks the Euro's out.

Let alone the C6 ZR1

Saw one in white the other day with carbon fibre lip spoiler, bodykit, roof etc. . . .Lets just say it made the LP540-4 it was parked beside look like a XT falcon. oh and massive rear rubber standard 335/25-20.